The Winter King – Bernard Cornwell – Episode 116
The Buddies enter Britain and the world of King Arthur in The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell. If you’re sophisticated, you’ll know this as an “Arthurian tale” or a retelling of the classic animated TV show King Arthur and the Knights of Justice. The book had the Buddies debating the merits of LSD-powered sorcery, comparing bar game courage to battlefield bravery, and wondering if maybe everyone in the Dark Ages just had terrible eyesight. So, grab your sword (named or unnamed), pour yourself some liquid courage, and join the Buddies as they battle through Book 1 of the Warlord Chronicles.
Intro/Book Report (0:00-2:48)
Stock Up/Down (2:49-32:14)
Favorite Scene/Character (32:15-42:50)
Love/Hate (42:51-52:12)
Listener Email (52:13-55:01)
Casting the Movie/Show (55:02-56:22)
Conclusion (56:23-57:53)
NEXT BOOK: All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker
Alright. Welcome to Book Club. I’m Dylan here with the man who named his penis Excalibur. Keith, what’s up, buddy? Hello.
And I’m here with the man that people only refer to as the tongue to 1, the man. Hey. Here at the buddy book club, we’re breaking down some bestsellers. And this week, we’ll be discussing 19 ninety five’s The Winter King by Bernard Cornwell. Bernard, part 1 of the Warlord chronicle.
If you like to recommend a book for us to read or reach out to any past episodes, you can visit our website, buddy book club dot com, or send us a message on Twitter or Instagram, buddy book club podcast. You can listen to us, iTunes, Spotify. So please download. Give us a 5 star review. Follow us on social channels.
TikTok is back. That’s available too, please. And thank you, Keith. Winter King, 426 on Goodreads. Pretty pretty good as in regards to to the Goodreads Goodreads ratings.
I wanna know, what is your familiarity with the King Arthur tale and the knights of the round table and Merlin and such? Well, I might be bearing one of my, stock up here, but I watched a kid’s TV show. Was it King Arthur and the Knights of Justice? Yeah. That’s right.
Oh my god. I had it noted too. I might save it for for that then. So that was your familiarity? Yeah.
Oh my god. Great show. It’s funny because I had that noted down too. I was like, wow. What was that show?
I remembered it. And I was like, there was a King Arthur TV show. So obviously, I went down the rabbit hole on YouTube. And I think they’re available on Peacock or something. But I I watched the first episode.
I had to. And I was like, yeah. It’s it still slaps. The intro song especially. So good.
What do we got for a book report from you? The Winter King is a retelling of the famous King Arthur tale. Because I’m super smart, I’ll be referring to as Arthur therian tail ends 4th. You remember all of your favorite characters in the tale growing up, King Arthur, Merlin, Lancelot, Guinevere. Well, prepare to have all those characters ruined.
Never meet your heroes or read about them in an adult retelling. I’m not gonna lie. The first part of these books were extremely dense. It’s like Basil Exposition showed up, but he’s speaking Latin and then started mercilessly beating you with a baseball bat. I was just trying to survive those first two parts.
Yeah. I wasn’t trying to pull ex Excalibur out of the stone. I was trying to pull a dictionary or maybe, like, a family tree out of the stone at that point. Things do pick up It became more of a Game of Thrones meets Shogun book. Yes, d man.
I compared it to Shogun. Unique, original, but not for the faint of heart. PS, not referring to the main city as Camelot was annoying. That’s it. Dun Dondurian or something like that?
I don’t know what they’re calling it. I don’t care for it, though. Well done. Well done. I liked the I liked it.
I thought it was a that’s a b plus effort. B plus effort. Okay. Yeah. I I appreciate it.
With that being said, let’s jump into your stock up, stock down. What do you have for stock up, the Winter King? Stock up, King Arthur and the Knights of Justice. So this is an animated show, 1982. So I was watching this when I was 5 6, like, or were they I think it was maybe PlayStation’s replays.
Okay. But, like, the thing what’s kinda crazy is I still remember the nights of the round table. I still remember, like, half the night today when I was going through the list. Mhmm. I don’t know why that sticks with us.
You have all these, like, phrases and sayings and places, Camelot, Excalibur, all these, like, stories within the story, and none of this has even helped you. You know? I could’ve been learning Spanish or learning how to read actually or anything, but this is just useless facts that are in my brain for no reason. Yeah. So, I mean, the the show did an amazing job of drilling it into you with all the the tales.
But then learning that it’s not even real or any of this stuff, yeah, I I should be much smarter than this and use that smarts on something else, not this stuff. But either way, it was a great story, and this book, was great too. Nostalgia is a funny thing, and also just the way things when they’re young and you have this moldable mind, they just, like, stick in there. And then, you know, memory, you just, like, file these things away and never think about them again. And then someone says, you know, you’re reading a book about King Arthur, and you’re like, wait.
Why do I know a somewhat decent amount, at least about the beats of this? Yeah. And then I just Google, because thank God for the Internet. I’m like, oh, there was a I think there was a cartoon, and then you Google King Arthur cartoon, and this thing comes up, which is the most absurd premise. It’s, you know, King Arthur and the knights of the round table are captured, and so Merlin goes into the future looking for replacements, and he finds the the New York football team who is quarterbacked by Arthur King and his, you know, 11 team members, which doesn’t really make a ton of sense because there’s only 11 players on the football team on a on a side.
So maybe they maybe they grabbed yeah. Maybe they grabbed 1 one defenseman. But, but, yeah, then pulls them into Camelot, and these football players from the current day fight the bad guys in Camelot. It’s an absurd premise, but, you know, it was only on for 2 2 years, and yet it stuck with me. And it’s not even one of the top 10 cartoons I watched.
But for some reason, it stuck with just means that they must have done a great job. And me. So Yeah. And you, which is funny that we both remember this. And did you listen to the theme song, by the way?
Did you go back and listen to it? I was watching the YouTube clip, and I I listened to it briefly. I mean, nothing compares to the X Men theme song, so everything’s gonna pay all in comparison. My first stock up, LSD, if you’re familiar with that. So it says in the book that Merlin uses ergot, which is a blight that grows on rye to get into the dream state.
And ergot is I’m almost certain. I didn’t actually go back and and and look this up, but I’m almost certain that’s what they use to to create LSD. It’s either that or it’s penicillin. So whatever. I’m pretty sure it’s it’s LSD though.
So this story is supposed to be if it was true, like the whole Arthurian legend kind of thing, how would it have worked in the real world, you know, without all of the extra fanciful stuff? So the idea that Merlin would use some sort of drug to go into his druid state, kind of like the who were the truth seekers in, like, ancient Greece? And it just so happened they were on these like hot springs that like made them hallucinate and do crazy stuff. You remember that? Like from like the 300 and movies like that and also Oh, yeah.
Yeah. They were like truth seers or whatever the thing was. But that turns out that these layers or whatever were on these, like, hot springs that gave off these chemicals, which which makes sense that if Merlin or these druids were, you know, they’d be taking something. I actually wrote, I took, like, psychology in college, like psych 101. And my thesis paper in there was about how humans wouldn’t have evolved if we didn’t find magic mushrooms because it, like, opened your mind and were able to create tools.
And it was a bunch of bullshit. I had no idea what that was. One episode of Joe Rogan is what you’re saying. This was pre this was when Joe Rogan’s telling me. This is when he had hair when he was doing Fear Factor.
That’s pretty impressive, actually, to come up with that because that is very common thing that he talks about. I feel like and I just turn it off anytime he’s Yeah. I I think he found it’s Terrence McKenna who I think kind of put this idea out there, and I think we both took it and ran with it on our own. And he has 1,000,000,000 of dollars in podcast. The idea.
No. Psilocybin, actually. Oh, okay. But, yeah, you know, he’s got 1,000,000,000 of dollars in podcasts, and we have We have 100 of 1,000,000. 100 of 1,000,000.
Of listeners. Yeah. So with this LSD, Merlin becomes the most feared sorcerer in the land. So he’s pretty much like the Charlie Manson of his day, but he rules Breton. So, yeah.
LSD. We gotta give it we gotta give it stock up. Merlin was an early adopter. Great. I also like that he he would just, like, show up to places and shit on everyone, and no one could do anything to him because they’re just like, well, he’s a feared, a feared guy.
So he can just, like, walk in the middle of a battle and be like, everyone stop listening to me. Yeah. I like that. It is the the amount of gumption this guy has, you know, from just going there and doing it. Drugs.
Yeah. Yeah. Because it feels like one guy would just be like, oh, shut this guy up and stab him through the heart, but no one takes it on. What else you got for stock up? Well, similar vein, liquid courage stock up.
Mhmm. Back in the days that you and I were banging, like, yeah, going to the bars. Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah.
Back going to the bars. Do you remember the courage, the bravado, the confidence you had to have to go up and talk to a girl? It was it was impossible, as far as I remember. You had to have, like, the perfect right of alcohol, which you start reading this book and you find out that approaching a girl at a bar is very similar to charging in the in a battle. You gotta get liquored up.
Stepping into the shield wall is is similar to Exactly the same. Up to a lady at a bar. Yeah. Exactly the same. So we’ve fought in a ton a ton of battles.
I mean, the the amount of courage, honestly, to go charge in a battle and getting liquored up and to do that is pretty much the same as going to Doctor. GIRL. The only difference is that well, it’s not really that different. I’ve just I have fought in 1,000,000 of wars, and I lost all of them. I have tons of scars.
I have tons of losing battles. I didn’t win any of them. But I had the courage to do it, d man. Yeah. Liquid courage stock up, helped many a men, and, helped many warriors like us.
Yeah. You’re like a a Nazi soldier after 1942 or 1943 just retreating, retreating, retreating, retreating. What the It was all losses for them from there on out except for maybe the Battle of the Bulge. You could use any possible war ever, and you chose you chose Nazis? Yeah.
Why do you you can’t even give me Italians or Japanese or no. Why do you give me Nazis? I guess the Japanese did slowly give up those islands. Yeah. Yeah.
No. That that that’s an alright one too. But they’ve kept I’m more like Russian. Well, I’m gonna lose anyways. I just burn everything.
You’re just taking the siege battle? I’ll, like, attack and then I’ll just burn everything behind me as I run away. You know? That’s me. Similar to your analogy though is a Durval stance, which is he doesn’t drink or anything before battles because he wants to have his wits about him.
And I feel like the the the standard was to get a buzz on at least. Get a little knead in you to fight because you needed some liquid courage. And Dervahl was like, that’s only gonna hinder my abilities to fight in the battle, although it might give me some liquid courage. And I think it it it translates the same to when you’re walking up to talk to someone at a bar because you might have a few drinks in you. You’re like, oh, I’m gonna go talk to this person.
And you come off as a blithering drunken idiot where you think, oh, I’m not doing too bad. And, if you had probably gone in there sober and just said, hi. My name’s Keith, that would have been a better way to go about it. Yeah. That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard in my entire life.
Have you heard me talk sober? I’m worse. Yeah. I did hear that book report. Yeah.
Yeah. Mercilessly. Yeah. And if I were 4 beers deep, I would have literally read that perfectly. I would have added in more, like, better words.
I would have been more articulate. I would have been, like, much more confident. Okay. But you’re you’re an idiot. You’re the dumbest person I’ve ever heard.
My next stock up is, good PR. Very important. Mhmm. Mhmm. Lancelot doesn’t do shit to save his homeland of, Benwick as Duroville and Galahad are putting their lives on the line every single day during the siege.
But at the end, Lancelot gets all the credit by basically just sending bards all throughout the land to sing tales of his bravery and gallantry. And by the time that Derval and Galahad get there, everyone already has this idea of what happened. They’re like, oh, Lancelot saved the day, but then he was able to get away. And so when Dervahl and Galahad are like, that’s that’s some bullshit. He didn’t do anything.
People say, woah. Well, look at his face. He’s got some cuts. And they’re like, he did that to himself, and then it’s like a how dare you. This is a war veteran here, and you’re saying he did that to himself?
You better be able to back those words up kind of thing. And Arthur has to step in and basically, you know, let’s let’s let’s chill out here. Everyone needs to relax. But Lancelot gets away with it just because he has that good PR. So we gotta we gotta give a stock up to to public relations people out there.
Mhmm. Gotta respect it. Yeah. I didn’t really get how he would get away with that. I understand that the the bard stuff would work, but your own people would not be super psyched.
You know, you have to rule a kingdom. Oh, they all died. Oh, I guess that’s true. What was his value then? Because, like, the Arthur should have been, like, yeah.
Go go kill this dude. I don’t care. But when he challenged him to a fight, Arthur’s like, no. No. No.
We but I can protect this one. Dude, why why was he valuable? He’s still, like, gonna be a king or he when his his dad died, so he still is a king. Well, the whole king thing is, like, well, I rule all these people, and they’ll listen to what I say. Yeah.
But So he has no value or he, like and the people that he ruled don’t trust him. He has value because it’s his value is in that people look at him and his family as the leaders here. So if you’re going to put a king in, you have to put someone in who the local people will follow. If you just supplanted someone that Darbal is a lord. You got a lord too.
Yeah. But he’s not he’s not actual royalty. He just got the title. So if you just start throwing people, especially from different areas, in and say, okay. This is your new king, the people would, like, potentially revolt or say, no.
I’m not gonna look at that person. I guess Lancelot’s, like, the original politician. He’s got the good look. He’s got the face. He’s got the good marketing.
Alright. It makes more sense. Yeah. They’re like, he’s royalty. He’s a a Clinton or a Bush.
He’s gotta be in there. Yeah. He’s a Clint or a Bush. Exactly. Jesus.
What else do you have for start up? This is important. You just talked me about your new car, but naming an inanimate object, Stocka, Excalibur. I think the his sword was called Helbane, but it’s spelled h w y b. Right?
Oh, I like Helbane. I think that’s a cooler name. Helbane. But, big, big fan of this. We need more of this.
Do you have any names for any of your, inanimate objects? I used to have a bong in college that I named Anduril, the flame of the west, which was which was Aragorn’s sword from Lord of the Rings. And it was also the, you know, the blade that has once been broken has now been reformed. It also got broken, and then I reformed it. So that only enhanced its lore in the, in the college campus.
Were girls, like, closed completely off after you told them that story, or is it they’re just a lot now at this point? What what happened there? Yeah. I mean, people were freaking out. Let’s just say people were floored.
I actually kinda loved it. The I mean, the backstory makes it. The thing that you named it that so you could tell the backstory. That’s the only reason you name it that. You don’t name it that so you can you just be like, that’s the end of that.
I mean, I think back 20 years ago, whenever that was, I was watching, you know, Half Baked is such a great movie, and they got Billy Bong, Thornton, and Wesley Pipes, which which I thoroughly enjoyed. That’s good. Yeah. I don’t think I’ve named anything inanimate outside of that. What about yourself?
Yeah. I just I more of, like, refer refer to things as, like, a a special thing. So, like, I have a club called Ping, which is, all my other clubs are terrible clubs, but I found a loss and found Ping Club, but it’s named Ping. But I’m like, uh-oh. I gotta bring Ping out.
And you you talk about it like it’s its own entity. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, it is human qualities.
And then then then the Nissan I mean, it’s more of a descriptor, but I call it the American muscle car. So, I mean, it’s more like, hey. Are we gonna drive American muscle? Are we driving, like, your shitty, like, you know, Lexus? And they’re like, what?
I’m like, Is it Nissan, like, a South Korean company or Japanese? Japanese. Yeah. It’s, I’m pretty sure it’s, Detroit, Michigan. But yeah.
Totally. Okay. Yeah. So those are those mine. But yeah.
No. I need to start naming things more. I I appreciated it. And I like your your your move is the best. It’s just give it a backstory or name that’s like someone has to ask what that means, and then you can berate them with your real opinions of something.
Yeah. Just like the buddy buck off. Well, it’s the best because especially, Anduril, you know, Aragorn’s sword in Lord of the Rings. It has several names in in classic JR Tolkien fashion. So Somehow we’re going back on this?
So, yeah. So someone can say someone can say, oh, what’s endural? And I look at them and go, the flame of the west. You know? And then they’re like, what are you talking about?
And you say the blade that has once been broken is now reformed? And they’re like, I shut up. I don’t wanna talk to you anymore. And that’s how you don’t have any friends. My next stock up was spitting.
Lots of spitting to ward off evil in this in this book. And I was sitting on the couch with the wife, and I was telling her about this. And she said it was a Jewish thing, because she’s Jewish. And I was like, that’s interesting. So I looked it up, and it seems to be an everything thing.
Like, every religion or geography has the idea of of spitting to ward off evil. So I’m fascinated by who started it because it somehow matriculated throughout all of these different cultures. And I also kinda respect it. Like, it makes sense. If someone was to put some evil on you and you like spit at their feet, it makes a lot of sense to me that that would be a, well, fuck you, kinda thing.
So I think maybe that’s why it was able to spread because the whole process just seems, like, natural. You know what I’m saying? Maybe. You’re not on the same page. I’m just thinking the the most superstitious sport is baseball, and they’re you’re spitting all the time of baseball.
So I I do get that aspect, but I don’t understand. What why is that warding off people when you spit? Evil. Warding off evil. Oh, like, you ingested it.
You need to get rid of it? Yeah. Like, they they put some evil on you, and you gotta you gotta spit that out. So it could be like burping too. Could be.
Burping is more of my compliments to the chef. Noted. Alright. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Alright. Fair enough. Yeah. Alright.
Slurping away. I was just thinking Dune too, obviously. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, dune spitting is a whole another thing because then you’re you’re giving someone your water.
You know, that’s a that’s a big deal. Yeah. Less of a big deal when there’s humidity in the air. What about stock down? Stock down having Yes Men?
Very important. I like Yes Men. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, there’s a fine line between a a a hype man and a Yes Man.
Yeah. Okay. And I think this book does a good job to deferring differing them differing between them. Differentiation. We get the final fight, Dean in Durval tells his troops like, we’re gonna probably all die here but I’m releasing you from your oath.
Everyone’s allowed to leave. Yeah. Don’t worry about it. And they’re all like, we ride together, we die together. Durable for life.
Love that. That’s a type of mentality you gotta have. Those aren’t yes men. Those are like hype men. Those are loyalty guys.
Mhmm. But earlier in the book when King Arthur about to get married and he, like, meets Guinevere, the the problem I had is that he’s not super religious. All you have to do is marry this one woman, and you can be with Guinevere. Like, that’s it. Like, there’s no Yeah.
This it’s your 500. It’s not 225, but you could do whatever you want. Take as many concubines as you want. Yeah. She can be one.
Guinevere is He can literally be queen queen Yeah. Essentially without having a title. Like Mhmm. And he’s like, nah. And no one stands up into this.
So it’s like, you talk a big game about wanting peace and all these things, and now you’re being super selfish. Either I’m gonna say stop doing this or you can kill me. 1 of the 2. No one says anything because they’re all pussies and they’re all yes men. I didn’t care for it.
Didn’t like it at one bit. Yeah. I mean, one of my stock downs was was stock down peace and love because, like, I like, you were just kind of saying here is all Arthur has to do at the end of the war, and in order for him to unite all the Britons, is Mary Kynwin. But instead, he sees and Kynwin’s a looker, and she’s got the pedigree, if you will. So there’s no problem there, but he sees Guinevere and and he just has to have her.
I think she kind of nagged him. Like, she was like, well, I don’t really care who Arthur is. No big deal. And because of that, he was like, well, now I have to have her. So it sparks off the bloody war for a guy that’s only been talking about how much he wants peace.
So no peace there, and if you know some more Arthurian lore, she eventually has an affair with Lancelot that indirectly leads to Arthur’s death. So no love either. Peace and love stuck down. I didn’t know that. That was spoilers.
Jesus. The thing too is just marriage is just a piece of pay it’s, like, less than a contract in these ages too. Like, means nothing. Unless you’re super religious, then I could see that, but he’s not. So I didn’t it didn’t make any sense to me.
Well, he can take Kynwin as his bride and then have Guinevere and a 100 others as, you know, his harem. So But yeah. And, like, he can openly have what would you define as a marriage nowadays with Guinevere. They wouldn’t even need to stay in the same house as you know what I mean? So it doesn’t make any sense.
Yeah. Good to know. What else do you have for stock down? Needing glasses, stuck down. Tell me about it.
I was thinking back about this. I think it there wasn’t just, like, amazing fighters. It was just people who are, like, 90% people are just half blind. And, like, there’s 1 or 2 guys that are 20 20 vision. You see you guys, like, swinging blindly at like nothing and you just go up and stab them.
Oh, this guy’s the best sight I’ve ever seen. It’s like, No. I can just I can see this guy. Like, what what do you mean? I think that’s all it was which we would think too like after this time period that all the people with bad vision would die out.
So you think it just would be but what now I think about is imagine how bad the vision was back then compared to now. It probably was a 100 times worse. Like, people, like, just couldn’t see it all. And those people, all their family lines would get killed because you couldn’t see anything. Oh, you’re saying that.
Vision is, like, amazing comparatively to that. Interesting. That’s that’s an interesting theory. I’ve never thought about that. And I have 2020 vision, which means my ancestors were awesome fighters, and they bred this person that sits at a computer desk is a lazy piece of shit.
So that’s that’s cool. That’s that’s good. My answer is, I’m sure, would be proud of me. If they could only see you now. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, I’ve often thought about the idea of what we all did before glasses because, duh, there’s a whole humanity out there before we had this ability to see. And I was wondering how it got trickled down into different gene pools and whatnot. But your idea that there was actually way worse sight people, like basically blind. And then they, in these dark ages in middle times, got killed off.
And maybe before that even, cavemen days, because how would that even work? So that’s an interesting theory. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you.
Because I always just thought, you know, we just eventually, once societies were built, they just put us in a in a hut and said, you know, you’ll do meticulous labor, you know, or or gardening or something. You know, you can’t be a fighter, which is that’s why I assumed I got here because all of my ancestors were cowards. So, yeah. Makes sense. I will tell you what’s tough is someone like me who has and and this is, I’m sure, it’s way tougher for other people.
But in general, my my eyesight is just bad enough to need glasses, where it’s like I’m not enjoying the world, but I could, you know, move my way around it. And when someone then, like, has way worse visions, Let me see those glasses and then everyone’s mocking you and it’s, oh, you don’t need these. And it’s like, but but I I do. I wanna I wanna enjoy the world. Yeah.
I wanna see it better. Yeah. What’s what’s what’s wrong with that? Which I still don’t understand how glasses work. If you can correct it to make it 2020 or whatever, why can’t you just make it, like, 120?
You know what I mean? Like, just amazing. That that’s the other way. It’s, like, 10. Oh, yeah.
You know what I’m saying? Like, double your make it better than the normal person. Yeah. Exactly. Because they say, oh, this person’s 2010.
And I’m, like, well, give me that. What do why are you getting me to 2020? Why can’t we have all of superpowers? Yeah. I think they that’s probably all the people in the glasses were all probably all perfect, like, visions that’s triple r’s, and they’re just pretending, like, they they can’t make it better.
Okay. Well, as someone on the inside, I will say that has not been the case for me. No. No. You’re not on the inside.
You’re not an optometrist unless you’re secretly doing it out on the side. No. I I wish. That sounds like a a very lucrative job. Gladys If you go in there, they’re like, is that blurry?
Or, like, no. It’s like, how about this one? Yeah. And they’re like, yeah. It’s funny because the first one was, like, blurry, but we’re not gonna tell you how blurry it was, you idiot.
Alright. My next top down is Simpsons did it. Are you familiar with this South Park episode? Maybe. So there’s a South Park episode, which is basically around the idea that no joke can be done because the Simpsons already did it, which is kind of their way of showing respect to the Simpsons while also shitting on all the message boards at the time that were saying Simpsons did that joke.
Simpsons did that joke. Simpsons did that joke. So I will give my congratulations, I guess, to South Park who had an episode called Cartman’s Incredible Gift, which is basically Cartman gets psychic powers or acts like he has psychic powers. And eventually, it ends with this psychic fight, which is, obviously, we know total bullshit. So the psychics all, quote, unquote, battle each other, but they’re just going, like, and, like, using hand motions and touching their head, like, and nothing’s happening because no one’s actually psychic.
And I felt that as I was reading The Winter King because my understanding of Arthurian legend and lore was that there was magic. Merlin is a magician. Sword in the stone, you know, there’s there’s magical elements going on. There’s priests and priestesses, and Morgan is doing devilish things on on the side. And this book, no magic.
None. There’s, people are concerned about the abilities of these druids, and they have them bless things. And, you know, they’re out there casting spells and whatnot, but it felt very much like that South Park episode where there’s a big battle going on, and the movie’s there going like, and some other Druid is like countercasting, like so, yeah, it was it was kind of funny that and I I guess that is what religion is to some degree, is that people believe it without seeing it. So yeah. It just was kinda funny to me that there’s this whole idea of the theory of legend with magic and whatnot.
And and our buddy Bernard here is trying to put it in real world scenarios, so you can’t have these big magical elements. It’s not necessarily like a fantasy book. So it was more historical fiction, so it was funny having them kind of try to figure out how that would work, but it’s really there’s no real magic going on. Yeah. Well, I do think there is something to be said about the negative effects.
Right? Or the the, like, confidence game that they’re playing. Oh, yeah. No. I get it.
I still think magic kinda uses this one, like, a magician does something crazy. I’m, like, oh, that’s even though I know magicians exist, I still think, like, is magic real? So the fact of back in the day, when you have no books or any information other than, like, word-of-mouth pass along and a guy shows up and he’s doing, like, slight of hand tricks, I’d be like, holy shit. I’ll follow this guy. This guy’s a god.
Like, that’s Yeah. Part of the matter. I I get it. And there is something this is almost like an early placebo effect where you’re going into war. You might have some nerves.
Maybe you didn’t do the liquid courage and you have this druid priestess blessing your sword. It’s like, okay, I got confidence and you go in there and you fight better and then because of that, it becomes like a self fulfilling prophecy where then Mhmm. You feel like that must have worked because I crushed it, but it’s because of that placebo effect. So and I respect that. I respect the way he approached it.
It just was kind of funny to me sometimes when they’re like, oh, Nimue cast a spell of disguise so they wouldn’t see us coming, and I’m just laughing on the inside. Yeah. I liked it. I mean, and also, we don’t know if it’s not real based on the book. Oh, it’s definitely not real.
What? There was no, like, when she cast something, all of a sudden, clouds went over the moon or something along those lines. There was, like, thunder going on, like, when they were talking to the gods. So I was, like, oh, that’s I guess it’s real. It just happened to be thundering, and then they said, let’s talk to the gods.
You are a cynic. I’m I believe it. Well, I’m definitely a cynic. That’s for sure. I don’t know how Merlin would get that reputation throughout the whole land unless he was doing some crazy stuff.
Because Merlin is what you’re talking about where he’s the best slide of hand guy. You know, the fact that he hunches over and walks with a limp and has a disguise, and then all of a sudden he takes it off and he’s like, no, it’s me, Merlin, and fills up the room with his tall space. People are like, woah. That was incredible magic. Not unheard of.
I mean, what’s his name? He’s doing it and pretending to be King Arthur. So it’s not like they’ve never seen disguises. They were just, like, taken aback by that. Are you talking about Dervahl when he wore Arthur as mail?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Not like, oh, a disguise. What is that?
There it’s just he’s so well disguised. Yeah. This is a good dude. He did such a good job of it from being hunched over to standing up there. Oh, he grew 2 feet.
It’s like, okay. Sure. Whatever. You’re just a non believer. You’re Christians.
That’s for sure. That’s for sure. Okay. I had title only promotions stocked down. So Dervahl comes back from Benwick with barely his life after surviving the siege, and Arthur gives him the new title, lord.
And D’Urville is so happy. He doesn’t have any words. He wants to cry. The guy just lost everything besides the clothes on his back and nearly his life. He got a title only promotion, and he’s like a a pig and shit.
And it’s funny because this is something that I feel like happens in the corporate world where they’ll say I was actually talking to a a friend of ours, Mico, and I was talking to him and he said he was offered something similar at work, whereas he worked for a different company and they offered him a promotion. He was like, okay. Great. That’s amazing. Like, what’s the pay difference?
Like, oh, no. You already make more than most of the people at that level, so we’re just gonna give you, the promotion itself without anything else. No one wants a title only promotion. Right? But they sell it like it’s a big deal.
Because I’ve I’ve seen it myself in in the corporate world where they’re saying, okay. Well, we don’t have the funding, but, you know, we’ll give you the title and then we’ll see how things go later on for for the monetary version. And only in the dark ages would this be acceptable to anybody. So, stock down, title only promotions. I think with LinkedIn these days, it’s kind of important.
You don’t wanna look at someone’s LinkedIn and be like, 12 years as a analyst or whatever. You know? You wanna which I was. So yeah. That’s why people think I suck.
But, anyways, But at the same time, it it mat like, different organ a different companies do different things. Someone could be Oh, for sure. An analyst and it would be like Mitch Rapp. Isn’t isn’t yeah. The guy, the guy who does all the Clear and Present Danger, what’s that one?
Who’s that guy? Harrison Ford. Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan. That’s what it is.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, Jack Ryan. He’s always like, I’m only an analyst. I’m only an analyst.
This guy’s making half a $1,000,000 or whatever being an analyst. So That’s a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t don’t don’t talk down about yourself like that.
You aren’t only an analyst. You’re a Jack Ryan analyst. Yeah. Yeah. What do you have for favorite characters?
There’s a good amount of characters. But one of those are the big ones. We got our main character, Dervahl, King Arthur, or really just warlord Arthur at this point, Guinevere, Merlin, Namui, Lancelot, Galahad, may I added Uyen. Uyen was interesting. He was Uther’s champion before, Arthur had his way with him.
But, do you have one from that list or potentially someone else entirely? Obvious one’s Namui, but she’s just crazy, which I love. Yeah. She’s this oh my god. Awesome.
I will also say, Lancelot, I thought, was a great bad guy. It was a good addition because I like, my historical mind is, like, Lancelot’s the man, but you told me that he sleeps with Guinevere? Well, they’re both He should be back. Secretly love each other. But yeah.
No. For sure. Definitely, you don’t do that to your boy. But, I love both of those characters. We’re great.
And, Namui, this is the one you’re you’re gonna remember. One eyed, just fucking nuts. I loved it. Yeah. I’m I think I’m with you there with Namui, and, also, I I loved her mentality as she went through the worst stuff imaginable, and she just, oh, well, I’ve had my 3 whatever she called them.
How is magic not real if those three things are happening? Tell me that. She’s like, I’ve had my three trials, Darvill. I’m alright, Darvill. I had my three trials.
I mean, yeah, like you said, one eye. I mean, we’re about to read another book with someone with one eye, so she crushes it. And then also that she has, like, the gold eye on top of it. She gives Durville a little loving for saving her, which I respect. They have this blood oath together, even though, you know, she’s she’s Merlin’s girl.
And, yeah, I I mean, I’m not like I said, I don’t believe in the magic the magic stuff necessarily, but she exudes that energy that I I believe it because of the way that she presents it. You know? Mhmm. So even if she’s faking it, it doesn’t matter because she does such a good job at it. Like, she believes it’s so heavy that that I’m in.
So, yeah, I’m I’m with you. Namuhi was my favorite. And, I mean, you gotta like you gotta like Durville, obviously. I appreciated that he wasn’t down for all the, you know, unnecessary murdering of civilians at the beginning and but at the same time, never broke his oath. He he kept it to himself and just kind of led on.
And the only real time is, like, Lancelot, when Lancelot betrayed it. Well, he didn’t really betray him, but made up all that shit, and Derval was in the trenches with the boys that he got really upset, and that’s understandable. We didn’t really even talk about the, initiation. What did you think about that, the initiation into the whatever that secret order was? Yeah.
I would been out pretty quick on that. That seemed a little bit aggressive. Right? Like yeah. That was also like a completely forgot that they that happened until you told me about that.
Yeah. Well, it it reminded me a lot actually of how Halloween when you’re a kid and you walk into someone’s Halloween party or whatever, and they’re, like, you’re squeezing eyeballs and it’s grapes and then it’s like, these are intestines and it’s spaghetti. Granted they were on drugs and alcohol and whatnot, but I feel like after they screwed you a few times and you knew that’s not what you were doing, then when they say you’re murdering a child or whatever they can do to you until the end, though. Oh, okay. Yeah.
So you know all these things. Yeah. So you just believe that you did all this terrible stuff. I also don’t think it’s, like, that crazy for they’re, like, sacrificing people left and right. They’re, like, going to war, like, all the times.
Like, yeah. Well, it’s killing a kid here. I I was like, yeah. That that checks out. Yeah.
There’s something different about some of them. There’s, like, holding down a child and you’re murdering it than, you know, in the bloodlust of a of a Italian boy. Like, it’s a Saxon. You’re like, alright. Fair enough.
It’s a Saxon child. I mean, they did the same thing to him. Yeah. That’s true. Yeah.
He had a pretty they threw him into the death pit. Very, Sparta. Very Sparta vibes. Yeah. I also, my one hate for Durbol was that he’s such a rugged warrior, but then he gets in front of Arthur and he’s like, yes, Arthur.
What can I do for you? Really, bro? Like, come on. You know what I mean? Like, the only thing that made sense is that he loved Arthur.
Right? When he was, like, I’ve only had one true love, I was, like, well, it’s Arthur, obviously. They’re, like, but then they were, like, no. It’s this other woman. I’m, like, woman, bud?
Come on. Oh, you mean, like, song of Achilles type love? Yeah. That’s what I was thinking. Sorry.
Like, when they’re when they when they would talk, you’d, like, whisper to them and stuff. Whatever you want, I’ll follow you wherever you go. It was, like, kind of like a nineties, like, R and B song. Like Casey and Jojo? I could never find another lover.
Sweeter than Arthur. Sweeter than Arthur. But yeah. That’s what I was getting vibes of, and so which I’m fine with if he if he just admits it, but you can’t be like that and not love the person. Right?
Yeah. Well, I don’t know. I I think he was cool with Arthur’s ideals. The problem is that Arthur went and did the whole Guinevere thing, which kind of throws a wrench in the whole clan. Because even at the end, when Arthur defeats them all and they think he’s gonna start taking all their land and taking all their money and everything like that, And he says, I just want peace.
You can keep you can keep your kingdoms. You can keep your money. Dervils thinks Arthur’s saintly for doing this, but there’s already been so much bloodshed because of Arthur’s very selfish decision. So it feels like, you know, you shouldn’t get as much praise. And also you can look up to him when you’re like 15.
You’re like, oh my god. That guy’s a god. But now he’s fought side by side and led battles himself. He’s no longer a 15 year old and he’s still being like, yes Arthur, whatever you want my lord. It’s like, come on bud.
You’re an equal at this point. You should be able to openly talk with him. Obviously, when he’s in command in front of people, you won’t like disrespect him by talking down to him or anything like that. But when you’re in the same room together, you no longer have to be like, no, lord. Anything you say is the best thing ever.
Well, they’re not equals. He is his superior. He is they are equals. I mean, once you fought that much, you you and, like, you’ve done that much for someone, you’re equals. It’d be like a captain in World War 2 going up to general Patton and just be like, yo.
What’s up, George? I think you need to move your teeth up here. Behind. No way, Patton. You’ve seen, like, same private Ryan.
All the the commanders are they’re like, you don’t need to salute here, buddy. You just, like, charge Normandy. Like, let’s talk openly. That was a lieutenant. That’s very different.
How is it different? They’re so high ranking, man. Generals. We’re talking generals here. Arthur’s a general.
A good general will let people right below him talk to him like normal human beings. When they’re in front of him, you don’t do it. Yeah. Maybe in private. That’s why the whole point.
That’s what I just said. What’s your favorite Good point. Good point. Good point. Yeah.
What’s your favorite part of the book? The Isle of the Dead by far. Yeah. Me too. I mean, I’ve seen before defending the city.
I was like, okay. This book may have a chance, you know. Maybe I’m I’m starting to crawl back into this book here. The Merlin reveal is cool. I started to pick up steam there, but in the Isle of Dead, the cannibal scene, that locked me in.
I was like, alright. Let’s go. Now we’re back. This is that’s that’s what I needed. So I appreciated that.
And I had to those as my top 2 as well, the Seidra Benwick and the Isle of the Dead, Isle of the Dead being number 1 where he goes to save Namui. Because that had almost like a fantasy element to it where he’s, you know, getting let into this prison. It’s like Escape from New York where New York City all of a sudden becomes a prison, but it’s just this island that is a prison. And he’s Snake Plissken, you know, Derval Snake Plissken here. Please tell me you’ve seen that movie.
That’s another guy without an eye. Right? Kurt Russell. Yeah. 1 one eye.
There you go. We got a lot of one eyed folks here. Yeah. So the Isle of the Dead, you know, it it opens up when they he just starts getting attacked immediately by cannibals and unsheathes his sword and and starts slicing them down, which awesome. And then followed up with the scene when he thinks he’s meeting a normal guy, and they’re breaking bread together.
And then all of a sudden, the guy tries to eat a piece of his liver and stuff. You know? Very, Hannibal Lecter situation going on. So, yeah, it was awesome. That was that was super cool.
That was something that I would I would want to see. The siege of Benwick is just a classic island siege situation. I felt like the way it was explained was really good, how the tides mattered so much and when the battle was raging and when it wasn’t and their plan to get the boat and and all this stuff and then, obviously, the Merlin reveal at the end to come to come save them. The only really pitched battle we get is the final battle at Lugvale, which would be my 3rd. I found that to be a little harder to follow than the other things, but I did enjoy it.
So I think this type of book and we kinda talked about it. I I compared this to Shoguns because there is a lot of names and moving parts and, like, it is a historical fiction based around stuff. The difference in Shoguns is it’s such a culture shock. This is, like, definitely culture shock because it’s so far a long ago, but the final battle is what you need it. If this just ends and they’re, like, now catch up on book 2, what actually happens?
I’ve been fucking pissed. So I’m glad they had some sort of resolution. Otherwise, I would definitely not been happy. I agree. And and one of I guess what it should’ve been a stock down for me is that there’s no PDF or something that comes with an audiobook because I don’t I didn’t see the actual book.
I’m not sure if there was a map in it, but I could really use Yeah. When I’m listening to an audiobook, a PDF that’s attached to it where you can see a map. You can, you know, move it around, zoom in, zoom out, see where these these things are going. And then also maybe next to it, just a a cast of characters situation so I can follow along. Because when they’re these And this is it’s supposed to be real, and we know these characters, and it’s harder to fall than Game of Thrones, which is impressive.
It’s like real locations in this place. This is the real place. Yeah. I’m like, wait. Where are they going?
What’s happening? I’ll burn a hate, but it is that, you know, the the Celtic British names were were tough. I couldn’t imagine if I was reading them because when I went to do, like, my research for the pod, I’m looking at these names, like, that’s how you spell, you know, Kerwin. That’s how you spell that name. So that plus the places, which are very complicated, I just needed some idea of scope.
Because also there’s a couple times when he would be like, oh, the Isle of Dead. That’s a one day’s journey. I’d be like, okay. Now I know. That thing’s 20 miles away or whatever the case is.
But I had no idea where they were on a map otherwise. So And And there are some names that were, like, maybe wanna say Gaelic or something, and they just said it like, then when they pronounce in the audiobook, it was just like rolling your r’s and sneezing at the same time. They’re like I’m like, what was that? What was that word? What’d you love about it?
The Winter King. I thought the fighting was great. Like, we didn’t even talk about literally the 1 on 1 battle between Arthur and Owain? Yeah. Yeah.
I like the trash talk before battles. Mhmm. Very nice. A good element. And then, the religious, magic, druid, all the gods, all the people you already mentioned, like, spitting to, like, ward off things, all the things they had to do ritually.
Yeah. I think that’s the only thing that would keep these people sane because you’re for 4 months, it’s freezing cold. You’re and you’re, like, just cooped up. You’re hoping to survive the winter. Then spring comes and like the food starts like getting grown and they’re like, alright, now we’re back for a war, 8 more months.
Yeah. It’s just like that’s your life. You do 8 so it’s like you gotta have something to to fall back on, you know, and say, oh, I’m doing this because God told me to or the gods or this druid’s gonna bring me to the afterlife or something, you know. Like, you need something. Yeah.
You gotta believe in something when life is actually shit. Yeah. At at all times, is it shit? When you’re not campaigning and putting your life on the line, you’re back home trying to get the harvest up, and your kids are dying of typhoid, which you don’t even know what typhoid is. They’re just dying of this shit.
You’re just dying of the gods not liking you because you didn’t sacrifice enough animals to them or something. Yeah. The thing I loved was that the characters felt real. You know, it wasn’t fanciful. And a lot of times when you’re reading a fantasy book, which this is like pseudo fantasy.
I don’t exactly I don’t even know where I’d put it, honestly. But when you’re reading a book like this, the characters seem very contrived and they seem like they’re characters in a book. This felt like it could be some historical accuracy. Like these could be real people that lived real lives. And it’s told from the perspective of Derval later in life as a Christian writing down the tales of the past.
And it it felt like he knew these characters, and these characters are really fleshed out and and human. They weren’t heroes necessarily. Even Arthur. I mean, we’ve been shitting on him for the fact that he was flawed, but I think that helps for him being, like, a real character, as he’s not this perfect person. He has flaws just like anyone else.
And the Arthur that I would know from, you know, what I collected through watching cartoons and Disney movies is that he is somewhat perfect and Mhmm. Infallible. So, I I liked that aspect, that he really created something that is not true and tried to turn it into historical fact. I feel like it’s like Shogunn in that sense, where the characters seemed like they weren’t superheroes. We kinda got right off the bat.
I was like, wait, what’s going on? And when when, we we introduced to Merlin and he’s like, obviously, Merlin, when she turned 12, he took her into her bed and, I was like, pardon me? What what’s happening? And then, Arthur had a bunch of kids at wedlock. Those kids sucked.
He hated them. Everyone hated them. Mhmm. They’re the worst. He never talked to him ever again after he got married.
Is this the right book? Who who are these people? So I did appreciate that. Yeah. I went into it thinking about this Arthurian legend like I know, and I was like, oh, this is not this is not that.
What else do you love? I already mentioned parts 3 through 5. I think that if it was just 3 through 5, I think this book, I I already forgot about parts 1 through 2, but that was a slug. That was a slug getting through that. Yeah.
It’s in it’s in it’s in my hate. But, you know, for the only thing I love is we kinda talked about this, but I I love a good sword and sandals type fantasy, which this basically was because the magic wasn’t real. But so I’m not even sure it was a fantasy, like I said. But I just like sword and sandals in in general, or this is chainmail and swords. Sandals?
That that’s like the type of fantasy as opposed to, like, magical fantasy. Oh, it’s like sandals, like, because they’re not wearing Yeah. Like, elves shoes. Song of Achilles. Oh.
They’re not wearing I I love sword fighting, and we’ve we’ve been doing not that. It was nice to get some of that is basically where I’m at. And Last Love, I just wanted to point out because I’m a I might write a blog on this. But, I do think it’s funny that people make fun of people for dressing up in their favorite player’s uniform or dressing up as a Patriots fan, wearing your Patriots gear and all this stuff and rooting for certain teams and colors. It’s, like, the alternative is that you dress up as, what you were born in, and you go off and murder people every single winter or summer.
You know? Like, that’s what they used to do. It’s exactly the same thing. Instead of using that outlet to, like, be hateful, you’re just supporting a team that you enjoy. Because this is what everyone’s done forever.
You just dress up in some certain color or the way you were born has nothing to do with anything, and you go out and murder people for that color. Now it’s like, at least we’re using that outlet as, like, a sports thing, an entertainment thing and not a terrible thing. So, anyways So you’re okay with the sports jersey thing? Because I think I’m on the other side, or at least I have a rule. What’s the alternative?
Like I just said, so I’m definitely okay with it. I think that people make you fun of it for it. It’s like, this is what people did back in the day, but instead they just kill people for it. So is that what you want? My my rule that I hold myself to, and this is totally my own, everyone can do what they want, is just you can’t wear anyone’s jersey that’s younger than you.
Yeah. No. I that’s fair. I I don’t disagree with that. The only people that I don’t like in sports are are obviously besides the the terrible people that are just mean to everyone and and out there just to, you know, hooligan vibes are the guys who either, like, steal foul balls from kids or push push through the line at golf tournaments so they can shake a golfer’s hand as they’re walking off the course.
Like, buddy, move on with your life. Just say, you know, good. Nice job. Nice round. Whatever the case is, and and move on.
Don’t knock over kids you can touch Tiger’s sweaty arm, and, you know, don’t steal balls from children. I guess I’m more, like, talking about, like, the fanhoodness. Yeah. The fandom is is go Not necessarily the godlike praising of a individual. It’s more of the, I’m gonna spend my Sundays watching something and then it’s gonna affect my mood.
Like, that’s better. Like, people make fun of that, but that’s better than I’m gonna spend my whole 8 months killing people because, you know, I wear this colored jersey. Well, that’s what sports is. Right? It’s just the outlet with societally acceptable outlet for, like, regionalism or something.
Okay. Well, let’s get into your hates. What did you get for hates? Guativir, the worst. She’s she’s awful.
No redeeming qualities at all. Mhmm. And then parts went through too, really. Those those are my biggest things. I probably mentioned a few other ones, but, yeah, nothing, like, major.
I mean, obviously, I didn’t understand what’s going on with parts 1 through 2. I still don’t, but that’s okay. Yeah. Hates for me, no magic. I just want a little magic, and I know we’ve already talked about it.
Well, I I I saw magic, so that’s fine. Yeah. You saw magic. I didn’t. You’re not a believer.
That’s all right. The other thing I didn’t like was long chapters. There’s only like 5 chapters in this book, and it’s tough for me as someone that listens, especially like I listen at night a lot, like as I’m going to bed, and if you put a book like this on and then fall asleep, you have legitimately no way to get back to where you were. It’s it’s impossible. And I know people say, oh, you know, you can put a timer on and whatever the case is.
But even then, it’s I’m in this chapter that’s 5 hours long. So did did I lastly listen to 20 minute? And then so it’s really hard to find. And I just like breaks. I like I like breaks.
I’m sorry. You know? Call call me, call me a kid. I don’t know, but I like I like to take them breaks. And I don’t think there was dialogue.
We had to talk about the first two parts, but I don’t think there was dialogue in the first four hours of the book. It was just Durville explaining the setting and the people, and there was no conversation or whatnot. So it was so dense. I couldn’t imagine reading this in book form because it would just be a page of words without paragraph indentations. So I also thought that they they did, like, break the 4th wall, so to speak, at times where he was like, well, you would notice Camelot, this area, or it was called this, but it you would notice Excalibur.
Yeah. Because he was talking to the queen in current day. Yeah. So it I feel like they should have done that as a preface. Like, next chapter is about, you know, this is southern England.
Yeah. Sure. What you would know is Londonian, today. Yeah. That’s where the battle was.
If that’s where it would have been nice, and so they’re just like, well, you know all these places and these these, like, groups. And I’m like, I don’t even know what a Saxon is. I had to look that up. So let’s, let’s back it up a bit, You know? A 100%.
And other things, we’re talking about the Celtic slash British names. And then really the last one is that Arthur’s not really a big character in this. He’s not even introduced until part 2, and Merlin is maybe in, like, 10 total Tiny character. Ton juggle pages. So as someone coming into it thinking I’m getting a lot of Arthur and Merlin, that was a bit frustrating.
I didn’t care so much about the Arthur part because I thought Dervahl as, like, a narrator of the whole backstory was really good, and seeing it from someone else’s perspective was good. But Merlin is just such a great character that I would have loved to see some more of him. No. Yeah. I agree.
Merlin was talked about more than he was actually in the book for sure. And it was mostly where’s Merlin? Yeah. Exactly. Where’s Merlin?
Is he coming? I don’t know. Where is Merlin? I don’t know. Oh, he’s over here.
No. He’s not. Alright. No. I don’t know.
Alright. I’ll read her email. Oh, yeah. Go for it. You’ve got mail.
Nick from San Diego. Hey, buddies. What is your favorite part of the book? I guess we kinda already answered this. But for me, I think it’s the best POV of King Arthur that exists.
It’s dark, twisted, take on, classic fairy tale. The way beloved characters are nothing like we expect is what makes it fun. I also like the role magic plays in this book. It could be real or it could be taken as real. Do you think you’ll read book 2?
I was a huge fan of book 2. Plus, I know you’ll appreciate this, buddies, and this is a spoiler. They’d introduced 2 twin characters that have huge dongs, so that could that could entice us. In. Yeah.
Thanks for the rec and and, and the question. That’s what I think is interesting and makes this book something to talk about is people are all over the place on their interest in the magic of it. You know? I wanted more. He see Nick seemed, like, totally fine with the way it was, it being somewhat ethereal, and, you know, you didn’t know if the magic was happening or not.
And I think the most important part is what he’s saying about King Arthur and Merlin is these are not necessarily heroes. Like, seeing them in this, like, true light is interesting. It doesn’t necessarily hurt them. It’s not like a p. Ditty situation, but it makes them seem more relatable and human, I guess, than just kind of these pussies on a pedestal situation.
The history is littered way more with Lancelotts than it is with King Arthurs. You know, people that are even King Arthur wasn’t that good, but I bet 95% of famous people are Lancelotts. Yeah. Or just like stolen valor. They basically had good marketers.
The victors write rewrite history books, things like that. The thing about Chris Columbus, we we thought he was the man Yeah. For basically 300 years. And then 10 years ago, they were like, oh, this guy sucked. We forgot about that.
Yeah. What? We forgot about the genocide. Yeah. The thing is we had his diaries too, and I remember I feel like we read those in, like, 6th grade, and we’re like, wait.
What? They’re like, yeah. You know, he’s good, though. It was a different time. And I and they’re just like, alright.
Alright. I remember them saying, like, it was just a different time. Don’t worry about that. It’s crazy that that was and we were, like, we were in school. What?
What did I mean It got a glumest day off. Yeah. Exactly. At the same time, we were in school, and they didn’t know how the dinosaurs got extinct, and, like, that was figured out. So I I asked We knew that.
No. I don’t think so. It was a lot of question marks. I thought they didn’t wanna tell kids that, yeah, an asteroid could come from the space and kill you at any moment. I think it was in some circles, like, duh.
I read a lot of dinosaur books. So did I know. A big dinosaur person. It was the idea. It wasn’t definitive.
Yeah. It wasn’t definitive. Okay. That’s cool. I think they eventually It still never is.
Gulf of Mexico. Aliens aliens could have come. It could have been a lot of things. Yeah. I guess nothing’s ever definitive.
If you get some cast members, I’m happy to start casting too. I didn’t cast this one. But what do you got for, for cast? This was a TV show, by the way. Just got cast deleted.
Terrible. I heard it was Yeah. That’s too bad. Yeah. I feel like it’s set up to be pretty good, so that’s too bad they couldn’t The Reddit threads tore it apart.
Yeah. I think that well, I mean, anytime you don’t, like, stick with the the actual book, then people get pissed. So not surprising. Cast in the movie, Derville, Daniel Radcliffe. Bring him back, Harry.
I’m not sure. King Arthur, Henry Cavill, Guinevere Okay. Emma Stone, obviously. Naturally. Noemi.
I could be calling her Noemi. What’s her name? Namui. Namui. Where’s Noemi from?
We we had a Noemi in one of these books. Oh, the Mexican Gothic book. That’s why. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
My bad. Florence Pugh. That’s who I that’s who I went with. Oh. Okay.
I think any additions? Yeah. I would go with, Noemi. I need someone dark haired. So I guess you could do that to Florence Pugh, but I I just watched Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
So what’s that what’s that girl’s name? Think she Oh, Mia Kunis? Yeah. You know? Mia Kunis.
Because she has one pure you know, her eyes are pretty piercing, and she’d only have one. So It’s a good call. Mia Kunis would would be a no Namui for me. I was gonna say no Emmy. Keith, we’re gonna come up next.
All the colors of the dark by Chris Whittaker. Hip hip 20 24 book. Hooray? Hooray? What did you say?
Hip hip hip hooray. Oh, got it. Sorry. Alright. Go ahead.
No. No. Hip hip 24 book 20 24 book. Have you started it yet? I haven’t started.
I just finished this other one. I’m 71 chapters in. Get Harold. Well, I will tell you. There are 261 chapters in this book.
Oh, okay. So you you like the short chapters? Literally the opposite of the Winter King. Every chapter is 2 minutes long. Like, this chapter I’m currently looking at, 3 minutes long.
So Love it. So I’m I’m excited for us to talk about that one because we haven’t really done any serial killer stuff. So this will be this one is fun. Nice. Did you, have a score for this one?
Oh, yeah. I would say 225 buddies out of 4. Like, 2.25? Yeah. 2.25.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. I will give it a 2.75 Oh. Out of 4.
I think it was a little better, but maybe just because the last couple ones weren’t great. Yeah. I I might be I might be up to a 25. We’ll we’ll see. Yeah.
Yeah. I think 25 is is probably good. I’m going with 25. I changed it. I’m going with 25.
Alright, Keith. Well, that was the Winter King. Thanks for chatting as always, and I’ll catch you for whatever this other one is. All the colors, the dark or whatever that is. Alright.
Alrighty. Bye now. Bye now.
