All the Colors of the Dark – Chris Whitaker – Episode 117
The Buddies dive into All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whittaker. A story that manages to combine elements of Joe Dirt, Shawshank Redemption, Where the Crawdad Sing, and Forrest Gump into one surprisingly coherent narrative. Or more simply put, a tale about a pirate turning into a great painter. The book had the Buddies debating proper broccoli-roasting techniques, questioning why Ivy League acceptances are treated like community college admissions in small-town Missouri, and wondering if maybe eyepatch technology is due for an upgrade after several centuries. So, grab your sketchbook (preferably filled with portraits of missing persons), double-check that your doors are locked, and join the Buddies as they navigate through this heart-wrenching story.
Intro/Book Report (0:00-4:08)
Stock Up/Down (2:49-39:33)
Favorite Scene/Character/Listener Email (39:34-45:16)
Love/Hate (45:17-54:31)
Lingering Questions/Casting the Movie/Show (54:32-59:25)
Conclusion (59:26-1:02:07)
NEXT BOOK: Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros
Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂
Alright. Welcome to the book club. I’m Dylan here with My Honey Princess. Keith, what’s up, buddy? Call me Patch, kid.
I’ll be keeping an eye on you. I just came up with that one on the spot. I don’t know if that makes any sense. Yeah. He does because he he does have he does have one eye.
I forget, why does he only have one eye? But we’re we’re putting the cart before the horse here. We’re breaking down some best sellers. And this week, we’re discussing twenty twenty four’s All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whittaker. If you’d, like to recommend a book for us to read or reach out to us by any past episodes, you can visit our website, buddybookclub.com.
Send us a message on x or Instagram, buddy book club podcast. That’s where you can find us. You can listen to us on iTunes, Spotify. Please download, subscribe. Give us a five star review.
Comment. Nothing else, give us a follow on some social channels. TikTok’s back, so, you know, hit up TikTok. Keith’s actually posting some some fire stuff on TikTok. I’m I’m I’m loving it.
Four three three on Goodreads. So Mhmm. Higher than most, which I which I was excited about. I found out about this book from a friend, and, also, it was on that list of, like, the some of the best books of 2024. So I think we we decided to to go for it.
But, you know, before we get into stock up, stock down, I got a book report ish. So, I’m gonna get into that, and then and then we can keep discussing the book. Alright, Keith. I came to this book, like I said, with no background. I’ve been listening to some serial killer podcasts and a buddy of mine says, hey.
You like serial killers? You’ll love this book. And for the record, I don’t love serial killers. It’s an odd way of putting it, but I digress. I thought I was getting a murder mystery thriller, but instead, I got a slow paced character driven novel with spellbinding prose, and I fucking loved it.
It’s like I’m a baby, which really isn’t hard to believe because my IQ is not that far off. And Chris Whitaker is doing the feeding thing where you pretend the spoon’s an airplane. And I think I’m getting ice cream, so I’m all excited, but he actually gives me broccoli. And at first this is me as the baby. At first, I’m like, what the fuck, bud?
Bud? But then I realized, I love broccoli. If it’s cooked well and seasoned properly, I’m all in. And goddamn, sorry Norma, was that some Michelin star broccoli? We got great characters, great story, great writing.
I mean, this was like five stories in one. So I’m not sure if this is even a book report. Maybe it’s just my, like, quick review. But this is my pirate ship, so I’m making the rules here. 10 out of 10 would recommend All the Colors of the Dark.
That’s my book report. What do you think, teacher? Oh, wow. Okay. That was a little bit more informal for my liking of a book report.
No. It’s good. I think it’s I’ll get you a b. You’re getting a full letter a doc though for saying broccoli is good. So that analogy, you lost me there.
I got the airplane analogy and then you’re like, what? Wait. What? Broccoli? Broccoli’s great.
But I I I liked it overall though. Appreciate that. You put broccoli in a roasting pan with a little salt and pepper, you know, maybe some additional spices to your liking. You know, I’m a big fan of the Japanese furikake. You throw that on there, roast it, like, four twenty five.
So it’s, like, still tender in the middle, but crispy on the outside. I like, yeah, crunchy. You get a crunchy broccoli. Oh, yeah. Okay.
Alright. It’s it’s cooked, but it’s still crunchy. You know? It’s got that that mix. It is a little kinda bullshit you can just give people grades for subjective like, I just give you a b.
Mhmm. That is kinda bullshit English class that you got graded. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. I couldn’t agree with you more.
But at the same time, I wrote a bunch of bullshit. Although I did write, and you you know this, but I did write a poem in high school titled homies, which you can find someone reading on YouTube somewhere. And that got me an a minus, and I wrote that after smoking a doobie at a basketball game and thought it was a bunch of malarkey. And they said, you know what? You’re a good poet.
And I laughed hysterically. So it goes both ways. It’s basically you think that most artists aren’t smoking a doobie and then producing art yet? I mean, I didn’t think you were doing a good job. Yeah.
Well, not Patch. He’s not smoking doobies and and producing art. He’s he’s crying. Alright. Let’s get into the stock up, stock down.
What do you got for stock up? Stock up movie vibes. So I think the big part of the reason I like this book is that there’s some specific elements from this book where it reminded me exactly the movie. Joe Dirt patches the poor kid that That’s Joe Dyrte to you. Yeah.
He’s the poor kid that’s like off searching for his, in this case, his missing Grace. But in in the movie, obviously, he’s searching for his parents. But similar vibes, you know? Yeah. Shawshank Redemption, the warden, the escape from prison.
Yep. Very, very similar, vibes going on there with, like, the crooked warden and, you know, all that going on there. We got Rudy. I know you hate Rudy. I love Rudy.
Yeah. Totally. But Sammy is the janitor that gives him the the key. You know what I’m talking about? And he’s like, yeah.
You can you can stay here. I like and he’s like, thanks for giving me. He’s like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I I didn’t do do anything, you know?
Where he’s like, won’t take credit for it even though you know he’s doing it for him. Same thing. Forrest Gump. I mean, it’s very similar to Forrest Gump. Lifetime story, Patch having a secret daughter, misty misty dying and giving him the daughter and being like, this is your daughter now.
Yeah. Very similar to that. I think and then what I really think the author is kinda like us where he’s like, what I’m gonna write is a serial killer book. But then he’s like, no one I also fucking love? Bank robberies.
I’m throwing some bank robberies in this book. It’s my book. I’m doing what the fuck I want. Then there’s like, no one I also like? Prison Breaks, which I like both of those things.
And he’s like, I’m throwing them in also. And he’s, like, also, like, psychological thrillers. Let me put some psychological stuff in here. Let’s do it. Yeah.
I appreciate this guy. You know? I appreciate what he did. So stock up movie vibes. Stock up for, just writing wherever you want.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I mean, I Shawshank vibes heavy. And then Forrest Gump, when he, like, found out Charlotte was his daughter, it’s like, I have to introduce you to somebody. I was like, wow. Okay.
This is was it Haley Joel Osman in Forrest Gump? But this is that scene. And And Misty has AIDS. Right? Well, in my head, I said, all we need is Misty to have AIDS right now.
And then two pages later or excuse me, 10 chapters later, she has cancer and dies. Sorry. RIP Misty, but it it was exactly the same. Yeah. I kinda thought because Chris Whittaker, let’s do an interview with him, and he said his original idea was basically about two kidnapped kids who meet but are in the dark and then, like, fall in love or something like that, but never know what the other person looks like and they spend their lives trying to track them down, which is part of what this book’s about, but there’s so much more.
So I feel like that was his idea, and he was writing it in front of a TV and watching, like, TNT or something. And anytime one of these hit movies came on, he’s, like, sitting there and all of a sudden Michael Mann’s Heat comes on. He’s like, oh, bank robberies are cool. Like, let’s work that in. Yeah.
And then Forrest Gump comes on in at 1AM. And he’s like, yeah. Okay. Let’s work that in. I don’t know if that’s actually happened, but in my mind, it is, basically.
My first stock up is meet cute. You introduced me to this term. Yeah. Yeah. You introduced me to this term.
And you’re all about the rom coms, and the rom coms are all about the meet cute. Mhmm. Well, hold your hat, Hitchhridors. There’s a new sheriff in town. We’ve got we’ve got two totally new, never seen before meet cute in this book.
We have the save your crush from abduction, get stabbed in the process, and get abducted yourself, then spend a year in a serial killer basement just so she’ll like you meet cute. That’s that’s more of the long con type meet cute. Mhmm. But we also have the spend a year in a dark room with someone never seeing their face, but through conversation, grow to love one another and create a lifelong obsession in finding them meet cute. So those are two very unique Pretty trope y, but yeah.
You know? Yeah. Opposite of trope y. Yeah. Extremely unique meet cutes that Chris Whittaker has created.
And each one of those would make a great story, but we get them both in one book. You know? With I mean, granted Patch is involved in in both of these between him and him and Misty and him and Grace. But, yeah. These Meet Cutes stock up because, all I have to say is I’ve seen a bunch more rom coms lately because I’ve been sick and just my wife’s sick so, like, these things are on.
And, they have mostly been terrible in the meet cute perspective, and this just takes it. Like, these guys gotta figure it out because these kind of meet cute is what I can get behind. Yeah. And the relationship between Saint Jimmy, no good meet cute, and know what happens there, kid. Yeah.
That’s true. If you don’t get a good meet cute, you’re not gonna have a good story. Yeah. If you don’t get a good meet cute, there will be abuse. Exactly.
That’s how it goes. Yeah. What do you got else for, stock up? Having good mentors stock up. Oh, okay.
I mean, that’s a that stock’s pretty high, I feel like. Good mentors is very important. Because this book really highlights that mentors like Sammy. Sammy is a great mentor. Now this is a guy you want in your corner.
He he kind of presents himself as a sleeves bag. He to the world, he’s kind of probably, you know, one of those guys you look at at first glance and you’re like, this guy’s a piece of shit. Which maybe he is a little bit. But he’s a guy that’ll take a bullet for you. He’ll go to jail for you.
He’ll do a little everything for you. He’s a father figure to Patch. Just a good all around guy. But then we get to the real people on the book that are supposed to be quote unquote mentors. Mhmm.
And they’re terrible. So let me start off with Saint’s grandmother. Just a terrible Door. Terrible judge of character. Awful judge of character.
She first thinks Patch is a piece of shit and is like, yeah. This guy sucks. This kid sucks. He’s like a poor kid that’s just like, needs needs help. Yeah.
And she’s like, don’t hang around with this guy. Well, hold on a sec. I mean, I’m sorry to interrupt you in your soliloquy here, but she is definitely saying to some degree, like, distance yourself from Patch, but at the same time, she knows what Patch is doing for his mom. Like, she knows that he’s out there hustling, and she’s inviting him over and making him really nice suppers and, like, leaving food for him. So, you know, she’s a good person.
Let’s not act like she ain’t a good person. This is after the fact, but I’m just still saying she she doesn’t read people very well. Because then, obviously, we know what happens with Jimmy and she just keeps pushing Saint towards Jimmy the whole time. And she’s like, no, no. He’ll he’ll be a great great father, be a great husband, all this stuff.
And he’s the opposite. He’s just a fucking piece of shit. It’s a terrible terrible job. And then what this book really teaches you to do is just because you’re religious, doesn’t mean you’re a good person. And just because you’re a womanizer and an alcoholic, doesn’t mean you’re a bad person.
This whole, like, moral compass isn’t based off of, you know, how you present yourself. It’s actually what you do. And Sammy is a piece of shit on paper, but is actually a a father figure and way better person than the most religious peoples in in this book. Yeah. Interesting.
Couple other people quickly go through here. Misty’s dad. Yeah. I mean, this is day one stuff. If you really wanted her to break up with Patch, just be like, you should be with Patch.
That would happen. Oh, yeah. Like What are we doing here? And then also, if I’m Patch, if the dad comes to me and is like, take the money, I’m, like, okay. I’m taking them a % taking the money, and then I’m still dating your daughter.
You’re gonna hate me no matter what. You already sold me. You hate me. Now I have more money. What are you gonna do now?
You know? Like Yeah. I mean I have the money. So Patch pretty much kinda did that in a way. I mean, he didn’t.
He went back and, you know, he hid it and didn’t quit it. I think Patch also knew that his path was elsewhere, and he also didn’t wanna put Misty through. If him and Misty continued on from when they started dating, they would have broken up shortly thereafter. Right. Because Patch was just yeah.
Exactly. His her dad should have just let let it happen naturally because Patch was so obsessed with finding Grace and his whole thing that there’s no way he was just gonna settle down with Misty and be happy. You know, that that wasn’t in his cards. But then saving her at a bar, talking about me cute number two for the two of them, is put put a little house how about how about them apples? Yeah.
Yeah. Well, how about them apples in it? And then the last one, this one’s the most obvious one. I didn’t I didn’t make any sense to me. Nicks?
Yeah. He’s a terrible, terrible police officer. Right? He’s not doing any investigative work at all, like, nothing. And Saint just has to keep on telling him how to do his job.
And then she was like, alright. Finally, I tracked down who it is. I’m gonna go get him. And he’s like, I’m not listening to you. I know it’s a little a little bit of a boy cried wolf situation happening here, but that’s literally your job is to investigate and do these things.
He’s not doing any of it. Meanwhile, his husband slash partner is, like, doing an abortion stuff right underneath his nose, and he just, like, doesn’t see it. Like, is this dude blind also? He has, like, two eyes. He I think he knew about the I thought he didn’t so he put him in prison?
What do you mean he knew? No. He knew about the abortion stuff. The reason why he let him go to prison was because Toomes didn’t want to out the women that he had been Yeah. I got it.
Forming the abortion stuff. On that. But Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely a stretch. I get it.
But I do agree that Nicks, although a great guy, no question asked, great guy. And he becomes her mentor. He’s like, I should be teaching you. Yeah. Maybe not the best cop.
I mean, the fact that, you know, Saint as a child finds Eli Aaron’s house and is able to, like, put those things together and granted, it wasn’t really, like, that far of a stretch. No. Like, this guy’s going around taking photos of girls for their school portraits, and he ends up being the one that’s kidnapping them. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
The first person I would try, honestly. Like Exactly. When they they put introduced them as the character, I was like, no. It’s way too obvious. There’s no way this guy would be it because they would immediately knock down his door at first.
Like, it doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. So He’s terrible. Maybe not the best, on your part, Nick. But, hey, you know what?
When it’s point blank range, he can’t miss. But the sound when he shot himself in that? Or is he Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
Alright. Spoilers. Yeah. Oh, yes. There are spoilers throughout.
So if you haven’t read the book, then because I did wanna comment on the religious aspect because I did have, like, religion as as a stock down because, unfortunately I mean, we both grew up Catholic, so we’re allowed to shit on it. Right? Or any and, really, anyone could shit on it. But it seems like all the pious folks in this it’s just kind of like a mistake, I guess, is what I’m trying to say. You know?
Norma, like you said, pushing her to Jimmy because Jimmy’s a god fearing man, and Jimmy fears god so much he beats his wife. And Mhmm. You know, that’s terrible. Obviously, Eli Aaron’s whole reason for killing all these women is this righteous plan he has where if they’re searching they’re trying to get abortions, then they should die or get penance or whatever the case is. Terrible.
And just the fact the overall fact that Tombs has to do all these abortions in, quote, unquote, back alleys because of the strong religious implications of the the town and time. So all that’s that’s pretty terrible. But I was kind of wondering what the purpose of the religion was in the book. Why was that such a big focus? Because, obviously, besides Eli Aaron, it kind of, like, driving his narrative, like, the fact it’s it’s brought up a lot.
Right? Religion in general is brought up a lot throughout the book. And I think you had an interesting point about that. You know, the idea that just because you are religious doesn’t make you a righteous person kinda thing. I never I didn’t really think about it like that, and I didn’t use Sammy as, like, the other side of that coin.
But I think it makes a lot of sense, so kudos to you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. You’re welcome. When’s the last time I’ll ever be nice to you?
My next stock up, pretending you’re a pirate. Stock up. It’s been some time since pretending to be a pirate was at the forefront of the American culture. You know, notably, we got Pippi Longstocking and, of course, Steve the pirate from the hit movie Dodgeball Mhmm. Which I was watching this is a non sequitur naturally as I always do.
But I was watching old Simpsons episodes, like, the first season of the Simpsons. And the line from Dodgeball when he says, no one makes me bleed my own blood, is a line directly stolen from the first season of The Simpsons. Bart punches Nelson, and Nelson says, I don’t bleed my own blood. I I I was, I was affected by that because I love Dodgeball. Simpson did everything.
So Yeah. That’s true. Simpsons did it. Simpsons did it. But back to my pretending to be a pirate.
Patch brought it back into the American culture. Sadly, his pirate days were were short lived. He went into the dark a pirate and emerged as just a a simple man. So I guess the lesson here is if your kid has some sort of issue where they think they’re a pirate or a goose or something like that, just get them abducted, and and they’ll and they’ll shake it off. Yeah.
Alright. I mean, I don’t get why you wouldn’t just wear sunglasses all the time. As opposed to a patch? Yeah. What are you talking about?
You inside, you’re just gonna wear sunglasses? Yeah. I mean, people do that. Cool kids do that already. What’s wrong with a patch?
I don’t see anything wrong with a patch. Patch is kinda cool. Oh, I mean, if he doesn’t wanna be called a pirate, I’m sorry. He did wanna be called a pirate, and then he didn’t wanna be called a pirate. Yeah.
Well, once you’re like, it’s not cool being a pirate anymore, I throw some shades on, stunner shades on. I wear my sunglasses at night. Yeah. That shit. You know what I’m saying?
Yeah. But then, I don’t know. Then the world’s always always tinted for you. Maybe be that type of, like, Bond villain that has the glasses, but one eye one of the glasses is dark. Oh, okay.
I like that. Yeah. See, now we’re now we’re getting somewhere. Yeah. I also wonder what his eye looked like.
Like, was it just like a socket? And, also, maybe because it doesn’t affect that many people, granted people go in for eye surgery and stuff, I feel like we haven’t taken the eye patch to the next level. The eye patch has existed for hundreds and hundreds of years. There has to be a different answer or a different option, perhaps, for people that need to wear an eyepatch. Sunglasses.
Well, I know. Besides besides something that covers both eyes. But, you know, why does this band that goes across your head and then it ends in a in a patch on on your face? You know, couldn’t we have some sort of a sticker perhaps? I guess I got two quick ones.
So one is one one is art. Stock up for art. We’ve been stock downing art left and right throughout many of the books we’ve we’ve read. And and rightfully so in my opinion because I I didn’t understand it. But this art, I can understand.
It’s finally a book comes around with some art that I get. Patch is a great artist, so what does he do? He takes pictures of girls that are missing. He makes beautiful portraits of them that are lifelike portraits. Sometimes he has a photo.
Other times, it’s just from people’s memories. He’s, like, the best sketch artist that’s ever existed. He creates lifelike paintings and then hangs it in his art gallery that are then renowned and seen by all. So not only is it art that I could stand in front of and say, oh, wow. That’s a good painting of someone, and I understand the intrinsic value of it because there’s a a woman missing that is this person.
But then people walking by and or buying it or seeing it, whatever the case is, they understand this is a missing person. It helps with the cause. So I get That is the origins of, like, the the milk carton thing. Yeah. I was about to say.
It’s, like, better than the milk carton, or it’s almost as good as that show that we used to watch in the nineties. Like, do you remember that show with the guy who went to Taco Moses? No. It was, like, this guy who his kid was missing and never found or whatever, and so he did these, like, missing children show. Wow.
Yeah. I can’t remember what it was called, but it was on, like it was like a Sunday night show. It was, like, pop very popular. Yeah. Rose and Clark?
Nice. Yeah. No. That’s a great show. Terry Fisher?
Terry something? Yeah. Whatever her name is. They’re real and they’re spectacular. That’s Seinfeld.
Yeah. I crossover the same thing. It’s the same actress. Yeah. Speaking of which, now that I’ve been watching a lot of Seinfeld, I feel a bit slighted because I knew you before I started watching Seinfeld.
Yeah. I’ve stole all the jokes from them? No. You just stole, like, a third of your personality from Kramer. Yeah.
That’s right. Yeah. You’re a character. Yeah. I know.
It’s just like every day I see it, I’m like, this is it’s Keith. I have to have I don’t have a personality. I have other people’s personalities. That’s like sociopath vibes. Yeah.
Thank you. My last stock up is stock up being able to directly relate to the plight of the protagonist. Okay. So usually usually, it’s hard to do. And books are typically about our our boring lives, and, obviously, this wasn’t either.
But I do have a unique perspective as I’ve also been trapped in the dark. Was it for, like, six hours and not a year? Yes. But was it more traumatic than than patches? Also, yes.
I was probably, like, I was probably Time’s a flat circle. What’s I mean, if you’ve gone six hours, you’ve gone ten years. It’s no different. There’s no there’s no different at that point. Yeah.
I was probably, like, seven, and I was staying at my cousin’s place in Tampa, Florida. And then I went to sleep at night, went to sleep, and woke up in the dark. Like, not in the room I was in, just woke up in the dark and was so confused. I said, what the heck is going on here? Where am I?
So I started walking around feeling around for stuff, and I finally found a wall. And I started moving my hand along the wall, and it was like saw blades and, all sorts of, like, tools and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. No joke.
I was, like, seven. So I freaked out immediately. I was like, oh, shit. I’ve been kidnapped in the night. Yeah.
Makes sense. I was like, I’ve been kidnapped in the night, and this guy has me in his basement or something like that. So I kept, like, moving around finding something. I found a laundry basket and some clothes. So I curled up in the laundry basket and piled the clothes on me and and, like, fell asleep.
So hoping he wouldn’t find me. And I woke up several hours later, and there was a sliver of light. And I look, and the room I was staying in was next to the garage. I had slept walk into the garage and woke up in the garage, but I had thought I was kidnapped. Wow.
So so I know exactly what Patch went through. I I you’re 70. Know what kidnapping is? That’s kind of crazy. I would not alright.
Fair enough. Absolutely. You didn’t know what kidnapping was? I feel like that was like a don’t go into strange cars. Someone’s gonna kidnap you.
My parents didn’t. They kinda wanna get rid of one of us. Yeah. But basically, I know it’s Patch’s plight is. What do you got for stock down?
Same difference. Doctor patient confidentiality, stock down. I gotta get my biggest hate out of the way. I I can’t I can’t wait till the hates. It’s and it’s really the only hate I have in the book because I think the book overall is very, very good.
But I kinda wish that all the religious stuff and the abortion thing were just they just weren’t part of the book because right the abortion stuff started being talked about early on. I was like, I don’t get what what’s what does this have to do with anything? And then you realize by the end why it’s so important. Was it talked about early on because of Saint? It’d be like Is that what you’re talking about?
Roe v Wade case just passed. And I was like, like, okay. Like, I’m, like, is this just to tell us what year it is? I mean, like, I don’t really What’s going on? Got it.
This seems really forced into the conversation for no reason at all. So I was, like, whatever. And then you by the end, you’re like, oh, I get it. Why? Let’s let’s talk about tombs.
It doesn’t make any sense. It just makes just zero sense. You’re telling me that someone is willing to, a, go to jail and be murdered or get killed death penalty wise Mhmm. To protect people that he gave abortion illegal abortions to, but that which is now legal. So it’s not even a crime anymore.
Yeah. What what what’s so you’d rather be known as a a murderer and and a child, like, rapist than a person that is I don’t know. There’s something that we can involves. Oh, I just assumed there was. How does he have a kid?
Well, Cali Montrose was raped by her dad. So Okay. Yeah. So you would rather have those two things. And then, I guess, the next point.
Toomes could divulge, one, who the serial killer is. He’s run into him. He should definitely help the investigation out. By not telling them and keeping silent this whole time, he’s only hurting more people. So you’re you’re willing to protect and he doesn’t even need to reveal who he gave abortions to.
He could just be like, I was giving illegal abortions at the time. I’m not doing that anymore. I’m not a murderer. That’s all you have to say. Right?
Well, you never know. Once it gets into court, you know what I mean? You gotta answer questions. You’re so you’re willing to sacrifice all the future people that are getting kidnapped and killed in order to protect these past people that what does it matter? I mean, it’s just it’s so ridiculous that anyone would ever do that.
I understand falling on your sword and doing something. If you were really protecting someone, who’s he protecting? It made no sense. It just, like I was, like it it seemed, like, so forced in as, like, a twist, and I was, like, what? To to to play devil’s avocado here.
Okay. This is a religious community, and the surrounding towns are religious communities. So Yeah. By potentially outing these women as, you know, people he had given abortions to, he would potentially be ruining their lives. It It’s not like they’re like, okay.
Now that you we found out that you’re doing that, list out every single person you ever get. Why would that wouldn’t happen. Yeah. I mean, he would have also put a put a scumbag behind bars in Cali Montrose’s dad who, you know Right. Exactly.
Whatever. And I think the only thing he could really contribute to the Eli Aaron case was that Eli Aaron was potentially stalking and murdering or kidnapping and murdering girls that had seeked abortions, you know, which seems like that was the case. Right? I mean, a huge factor. Also just But they did it.
It’s not like they went to a doctor and did it. So you couldn’t trace these women by, oh, okay. Let’s look for abortion cases. I guess maybe you could. It would help for sure.
It wouldn’t hurt. Eli or what’s the name was figuring it out somehow, so they would be able to I mean, the FBI was pretty good. It sounds like based on the book. They they’d be able to figure it out if they’re given that hint. It was just so ridiculous that you would fall on your sword to protect I don’t even know what.
He would have also been implicating Nix because Nix helped him bury Cali mantras. Nix knew about Cali. That just be like, I do abortions. Well, he’d still go to jail because he killed Calley. And he also felt responsible.
I think that was the other factor is he felt responsible for Calley’s death that he Maybe this I don’t understand. So he gave her an abortion and she died? Like, what he was thinking of? He gave her an abortion can lead to excessive bleeding, which would you if you’re in a hospital setting, they can take care of. But he’s not in a hospital setting.
So during that abortion, she died, and so Nicks helped him cover it up, basically. I guess I just didn’t understand that part of the book. Okay. That makes more sense. I thought that hit her dad killed her, and that’s why Nyx killed that guy.
Nyx killed him Nyx killed him because he knew that the dad was the one that impregnated her. Well, if that’s the case, fine. But he should’ve at least come forward. The menu. Yes.
He should’ve he should’ve still came forward and said, yeah. I was doing this. I’m not a fucking I’m not helping him out. This is the guy that’s you know, this I can give you every single other thing I need to tell you about this one guy. I get it.
But Toomes felt responsible. Was he released from prison? He was. Right? Yeah.
Oh, no. He was yeah. He was released from prison. So so was he guilty of that? He was just guilty.
He the guilt was internal. The guilt was internal. He felt the guilt. Yeah. Well, then he just ruined a bunch of other people’s lives.
So and then we got Saint who So he’s selfish is basically. Yeah. I do think he’s selfish. And we have Saint who doesn’t go through with her abortion, which is, like, a big twist. And it was Oh, right.
Kind of stupid. Twist. But she tells Jimmy that she’s got an abortion, and then Jimmy beats her up, which I I guess she wasn’t expecting. But, like, same time, what’s the point of telling him at all? I don’t really understand that.
Well, she didn’t tell him she got an abortion, to be clear. She said she went to the abortion clinic. Okay. Let’s not let’s not get, like It is semantics. Semantics here on this.
But then Jimmy dies. Don’t you think the fact that the guy that Patch killed is the one that beat up a pregnant friend of his is important. Wouldn’t you reveal it then? Hey, I was pregnant, and this guy who he punched and accidentally killed, he beat me up while I was pregnant. So he was getting back at him because he was so angry and he realized who it was.
He that wouldn’t be murder. That’d be, like, manslaughter or whoever it was. Right? Yeah. You think she would be called to the witness stand for sure.
That’d be kind of important information. Yeah. At least a character witness. Yeah. But she’s like, no.
I gotta keep this secret. Well, who you who’s the secret for? You’re you’re still telling everyone that you got an abortion. Why? What’s the point?
Like, I understand why you keep it initially to be like, wait. I don’t want my son or daughter, I don’t can’t remember if she has, to be tracked down by Jimmy and Pat. So that was one of my lingering questions. Like, was would Patch really get life for killing Jimmy? Because, you know, I mean, he’s no Cameron Poe, who you obviously know from Con Air, with hands that are deemed lethal weapon.
Mhmm. Mhmm. He threw a punch, and Jimmy fell wrong. So if you ask me, it’s really Jimmy’s fault that he died. Just not being an athlete.
I I agree with that. But, also, the jury’s gotta know this guy was a complete piece of shit, not a Christian man that went to church every Sunday and was a zoo guy and all that. Like, that’s what they’re gonna paint. Put all the factors together in that, hey. He threw a punch.
Jimmy fell wrong. Also, here’s Saint who said this guy abused me, and this is my best friend. And, yeah, it was a mistake for sure. Manslaughter, whatever. You know?
He gets five to ten years maybe. Yeah. So, yeah, I I I agree. I agree with you. There didn’t need to be any twist for the abortion stuff.
It should just been none of that in there. The twist is, all the serial killer stuff, you know, and him breaking out of jail and all that stuff. I will agree with you, though, that out of the twists and turns that this book does, that one was the only one to me that felt, you’ve said tropey before for something else, but that one felt a little tropey. Like, oh, the kid’s alive at the end. It’s like, okay.
Well, like, this really doesn’t matter, the story. It doesn’t change my opinion of Saint whether she went through with the abortion or didn’t. So, yeah, I’m I’m good on it. Speaking of Saint, my, my first stock down is stock down Freakonomics. You familiar with Freakonomics?
Yeah. Well, I read Super Freakonomics because I wanted to one up you. But yeah. You’re way too cool for me. Thank you.
Yeah. So Freakonomics, for those that are unfamiliar, was a, Steve Levitt and something Dubner. I forget his name. But there was one chapter about a father who named his kids he had, like, twin boys or something and or maybe two boys. I don’t know.
But he named one winner and one loser. And the freaking obvious guys went in. Turned out winner became a lifelong criminal, and loser is a detective for the NYPD. So their point was basically, your name doesn’t matter. You know?
And they went through a bunch of data, blah blah blah. Go read the book if you want to. What I say? Back to the drawing board, Dubner and Levitt. Saint is indeed a Saint.
Her love for Patch knows no bounds. She spends her life, even when it’s not her job, hunting down Eli, Erin, and all the missing girls. How many people does she save throughout? You know, not only Patch at the beginning, who then, you know, if you kinda tumble that down, Patch ends up saving however many lives. She helps Patch kill Eli and Erin, even though Patch really does does the dirty work, but she brings the gun.
And, you know, she saves another girl in the woods. She’s she takes on Charlotte as her charge and basically becomes her her mother figure. She doesn’t abort a baby. What a saint. So so yeah.
Yeah. I have to say stock down Freakonomics because saint is indeed a saint. Yeah. I’d I % agree with you because I think the book is meant to make you feel bad for Patch. He had such a rough upbringing, the ten months and basically kidnapped in the darkness.
Everything about him is so sad, but I think Saint’s life is a lot sadder like the whole everything she’s doing is like chasing some sort of patch the whole time wanting to be, you know, more than just friends with him and just never being able to get that. Then gets like a a husband that’s abusive and then every little thing and every single next step is like, she never is able to fulfill kind of what she really wants. I I always felt bad for the whole time and especially after she did did so much investigative work to find and track down Patch and rescue him. And he was just like, whatever, You know, not a big deal. I’m like, oh, I felt I felt heartbroken for her more than than Pat.
Pat is a good looking dude. He moved on. He’s a famous painter. He’s robbing bank. He’s kinda living, like, a cool life, you know.
She’s like I feel like her life’s kinda sad. Yeah. No. For sure. And and she loves Patch.
Like, she like you said, like, she wants more out of that, but also never presses it is, like, all you know, I feel I’ve so feel fell for her after she saved Patch, and she saved his body, but his soul just wasn’t intact afterwards. And she wants it to be like it was, but it just never Yeah. Will be. But then she takes on his lifelong goal. Like, she assumes it, and it becomes her goal.
And her entire life is dictated by that. You know? She becomes a cop, and then she becomes an FBI agent all because of this connection with Patch and her wanting him to want her in some ways. But in other ways, she just, you know, she just loves him as as a great friend too. So it’s Yeah.
And even after that too, you would think that she’d be kind of like, well, whatever. Like, I gotta get over this and but she’s, like, reading reading up on books of, like, psychological things after a traumatic like, she’s doing all this research and reading on, like, how to help him even more. I was like, Jesus. She’s just such a a good person. And, like, no one really blame her if she kinda acted like Charlotte, who I think is not a good character.
After the fact, she saves him and, like, Pat’s kinda giving her her the blind eye or pun intended, and kinda just ignoring her and and but she’s like, no. Like, I understand that he’s going through something, and it’s not, like, like, I can’t be selfish. I gotta keep on helping him. Yeah. For all the characters that are very well rounded and also grounded in that they feel like real people, Saint is almost at times, like, too good of a person.
Yeah. I am sorry. I wrote that as a note at one point. I was like, there’s way too much kindness in this book. Like, for all the evil there is, there is a lot of, like, other side of way too many people being way too kind.
Yeah. There’s a bunch of times I was thinking I’m just not as nice as saying that. Yeah. Yeah. I would never be.
I’d be like if if he if Patch K through Edwards was like, no. I’m not really that interested in hanging out. I’d be like, you’re not fucking interested in hanging out. Are you kidding me? Yeah.
I saved your life, you prick. You’ll do whatever I wanna do. Yeah. So so yeah. Like, whatever.
It all came together at the end. Do you have any other stockdowns? Last one, Ivy League schools stock down. You know, I thought Ivy League schools were prestigious. I thought they were kind of a big deal.
This is a small town in Missouri. Two people from public school go to Ivy’s. I thought there’d be parades. You know what I mean? Like, this is a a pretty big deal.
They must have had insane transcripts. Yeah. But instead, they’re like, Ivy, I don’t give a shit. I’ll become a cop instead of going to Dartmouth. That’s what Saint does.
Misty, maybe she went to, like, private school or something or had connections because I know she was rich. But No. They weren’t sure to post because they went to school together. Right? She is just like, I guess I’ll go to Harvard.
Whatever. It’s like, she literally could have been rubbing shoulders with, like, Conan O’Brien, Neil de Grace Tyson was there. Michelle and Barack Obama were there probably in the eighties too. Doing state level research. I mean, like, there’s Harvard is like just go look at the Harvard alumni.
There’s like any year you you went to school at Harvard, you would be seeing I looked at these are people, I think, in the eighties. That’s when they would have gone to school in college. Right? So, like, these are people you would have been rubbing shoulders with at Harvard. And Harvard’s not, like, a huge school.
It’s, like, somewhat small. So what are you doing? I I guess I believe schools suck. Never mind. Stock down.
I believe Yeah. It’s a it’s a good point. I never really thought about it. It’s a good point. Couple stocked out.
Well, I I said my religion’s stocked down, so we don’t need to do that. And then the last one I really had was a stocked down was was reading before bed. I don’t know when your preferred, when’s your your we’re both audiobook listeners for the most part. So when is your preferred audiobook time? Anytime in the car, I’m a big fan of.
Okay. Yep. Probably, like, 4PM when I need to, like, stop doing work and just zone out, I’ll play some games on my, tablet and listen. Oh. That’s usually what I can do.
You like to play the, like, kinda, like, the the Mindless games. Castle building games or whatever the case is. Yeah. Just saying that it’s mindless. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m a kinda anytime is a good time, audiobook. Good answer.
Before bed or, like, going to bed, the wife and I will give each other a kiss good night and then kinda put it put an earbud in, and we’re both listen to a little audiobook before bed, sometimes fall asleep during it. You know? It’s a good way to kinda get into that deep sleep. But I couldn’t do it, so it’s stuck down with reading before bed because I also grew up as a kid. You know, that was what we did before bed.
We couldn’t watch TV. I’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but we couldn’t watch TV. So my mom would have us you know, we’d all, by we’d all, it was usually just me, would crawl into bed. You know, her and I would have a book and have some tea, and and we’d read our books, and we’d talk about them, and then we’d go to bed. It’s a it’s a great great way to kind of transition.
And I hope to do the same thing with my child, but at the same time, doing it now was difficult with this book because so much was happening. And especially towards the end, and I listened to a part that I’m gonna talk about in a little bit where Saint goes to the Eli Aaron house, like, towards the beginning. I couldn’t sleep for for, like, three hours. I I had to turn it off because I was, like, halfway through that scene. I was, like, I can’t finish this right now.
But then I turned it off, and then I’m just laying in bed being, like, holy smokes. It had me thinking the, like, did I lock the doors mindset, which you know is it hits you right. So a lot of this book, I couldn’t read before bed because it had me up thinking what the hell is going on. I need to continue reading it. So that just means it was good in my opinion, but at the same time, stuck down reading before bed.
Read, like, I don’t know, a Stephen Ambrose book or something. Well, I texted you, and you were like, oh, man. This is books tons of roller coasters, Like, roller coasters. There’s just a the whole time where I was, like, on a free fall, I I lay a rain cloud over me when I was reading this book. Like, I wanted to get done with it so quick because I was just, like, feeling very down anytime I read.
It was it was a very negative, heavy, dark book. Like, it’s definitely not one that I was, like, super excited to be reading just because it’s it you know, I we talked about this. I like to do books that are fantasy out of this world because this stuff is, like, real, not easy stuff to to read. It kinda did remind me of, Where the Crawdads Sing, which is, like, really, really good writing. But, like, when you’re reading it, you’re, like, this is depressing shit.
Like, this is not, like, this is, like, real life, not fun for anyone. I only saw the show or movie which is terrible. Let’s get into the favorite characters. So I’ll give you a list and you can tell me if you’re in here. We got Patch, Saint Misty, Charlotte, which is, Patch and Misty’s child.
Sammy, your boy. Eli, Aaron, maybe your favorite. I don’t know. Nyx, we can pretty much say that he’s not your favorite nor is Toomes nor is Norma. So, what do you like?
One of those or someone else? Yeah. I already I already told you. Sammy. Sammy, we love you, bud.
Yeah. Sammy is definitely the the best. I love those type of characters. I feel that there’s a lot of them in movies where they’re, like, they’re the the debaucherous dude, but actually deep down, like, really really good guy, type person. So give me Sammy every day.
Yeah. I mean, it it’s Sammy for me too, obviously, because he’s a food guy, which which we love, and a pretentious food guy, which I don’t necessarily love, but he did it in a pretty funny way, especially when he was asking if whenever he would send food to Patch in prison, he’d be like, did you get the pate? And this is Patch would be like, no. Be like, those motherfucking guards are having the the best Christmas of their life. I loved all that.
I love the interactions between Patch and Sammy because they both love each other. You know they love each other, but neither of them admits it, and they almost do the opposite and just, like, kind of shit on each other a little bit throughout. That’s true friendship right there. That’s all I know. Exactly.
Exactly. It was it was good. When he goes, like, Sammy takes him to a nice restaurant, and he doesn’t care. But Patch is also almost, like, picking up waitresses. He’s a very enigmatic character, as as is as is Sammy.
So I’m very excited to see this see Sammy in action, like, on the big screen or whatever the case is, you know, on the home screen. But, yeah, we both love Sammy. What’s what’s not what’s not what’s not to love? I mean, all the characters are great. I like Charlotte.
You didn’t, but, you know, that’s that’s to to each their own pa zone right there. Do you have a favorite scene or part of the book? I do, but I wanted to use our reader email because it came in, and it’s yeah. I’m just gonna combine it. You’ve got mail.
This is Emily from Denver. I read this a while ago, but there are still parts I clearly remember. For me, the part in which 13 year old Patch is held prisoner in the total darkness for ten months was one of the most haunting heartbreaking and beautiful things I’ve ever read. I get teary eyed thinking about it. What about you buddies?
So that was Emily’s but, to to give us a lead off, I actually think for me the the rescue part, the emotions there because one, it was like kind of like an action movie. Like, first of all, 13 year old girl doing that is is wild, bringing a gun and trying to rescue it single handedly. Again, our girl’s Saint. Incredible. But then you finally rescue him, and you’re, like, the elation of, like, we did it.
We did it. And then the where is Grace? Was Grace real? Like, all these negative things immediately happen after the fact. Oh, yeah.
This is a real kid that’s gonna now be fucked up for the rest of his Like, all these realizations come out after the the rescue. There was, like, dichotomy of, like, such jubilation to, oh, I guess there’s an aftermath of this that’s gonna really suck. I love that part. So what about you? I thought for me personally, the book started a little slow.
Not that it was bad by any means. It was just kind of building up. And then it just went crazy when Saint got to that house. It was very much, like, the Silence of the Lambs vibes, except instead of Jodie Foster, who’s an FBI agent, going into the serial killer’s house, it’s a child going into the serial killer’s house. And everything from her going in there to seeing the snakes, the lights going out, the the pictures, the the negatives hanging in the darkroom, like, all of it felt so claustrophobic and frightening.
It felt like an action movie, you know, except it’s this, like, little girl trying to figure this one out and screaming Patch the whole time, which I was like, shut the fuck up. Stop yelling Patch. Like, get out of there. Like, what do you you know? Did she start the fire, by the way?
I couldn’t understand. I didn’t understand that. Or was it I think he He started it. The way I read it was it was accidental. Like, she knocked something over or something went along those lines, but I could be totally off.
I don’t think she started it. Eli Aaron might have started it. But And then you, like, escaped because it yeah. Yeah. They use it.
Yeah. It makes sense. Like, grabbed Grace and it and escaped. I don’t really get how Patch found his way, like, into the woods or whatever the case is. But Well, that was the that Grace brought him out there.
That was Oh. Right. Oh, okay. Yeah. But yeah.
So we agree. That part it just kinda set the tone for the rest of it. And it was one of those things, like, that scene usually happens at the end of a book Right. And for it to happen here and then so much more stuff go on. And it also it sets the I mean, I think maybe not a theme or whatever the case, but one of the ideas being, you know, how this trauma, this, like, childhood trauma affects not only that person throughout their life, but everyone within their sphere and sometimes even outside of that.
So, yeah, I thought that was, like, it was just a really good way to kinda kick off the rest of the story and felt like it would be an an awesome ending to episode two of whatever this series is gonna be or whatever the case is. What about Love Hates? What’d you love? Tie it back to what you just said about the child with trauma. Yeah.
I do think it’s interesting to get it from the very early perspective. Because a lot of these books is like, oh, that guy’s a bad guy, but that’s because his dad beat him or something like that. And you’re like, oh, yeah. I guess that makes sense. But, like, this is like, you see that trauma happen, and then we get twenty years, thirty years of how that impacts them down the road.
Whereas if you just met this character when they’re 25 and he’s robbing banks, you’d be like, well, whatever. Get over it, buddy. But now you’re like, oh, I get it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it really kinda grounds in that, like, why the childhood trauma is why it fucks you up so much.
Because then when you live it, you’re like, oh, I I kinda get this now. So I really like that. Yeah. He channeled it pretty well, I feel like, considering he robbed banks and then just gave all the money to missing people’s charities. The other things that I like too is just I thought, like, I was part of the story.
It was it was weird because only usually action slash, like, thrillers do I, like, sit back and feel like I’m watching it. Whereas this one, even though is very quick hitting chapters and not, like, a ton of super ton of action, it felt like you’re watching someone’s life go by or, like, few people’s lives go by. The writing was just really, really good, I thought. And, yeah. And this is, like, not my type of book with like, I talked about.
Like, I would not be picking this back up how I’d known what it was about, like, about my own volition, but I’m glad glad we read it. Yeah. I couldn’t agree. I mean, the writing the writing was was next level, I thought. It was it was exactly what I, as a dullard, I felt like I could understand that this was good writing.
You know, the way that he would just explain things or adjectives used to describe things, it was he was painting a picture with it. How does someone know how to do this? And, supposedly, like, Chris Whittaker wasn’t an author. Like, he was just, like, working jobs and just, like, you know, didn’t I don’t even think he, like, went to university or, like, graduated university and just wrote part time on the side kinda thing and, like, wrote a couple books. They didn’t really do anything.
Like, they were critically nice, but no one bought them. And then his last two books, including this one, have just, like, crushed. I hope I have some sort of secret talent that I have yet to, unearth because that was a really nice thing. It’s not there. I’ve gone back and read my stuff, and like You read your spec scripts?
I get it. I get my people don’t like these. Other things I love, Eduardo Ballerini is the narrator, who, for those that are unfamiliar, is Corky Corporale in The Sopranos. He did the wool books, the silo series. Yeah.
So at first, it took me a minute to, like, get into it. I thought he was very good. He also did the paint the the stealing the paint thing. Oh, the art Art thief. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So it was you know, it took me a minute to get into it because I just, like, have such he was giving such wool energy off. But, yeah, I think he’s he’s he’s a great narrator. So so I love that.
Dreamboat too. Wow. Really? You think so? Anyways I thought the twists and the payoffs, I loved a lot.
We’ve we’ve talked about the one that we don’t really love, which is, you know, the the whole same thing. Otherwise, like, these are my type of twists and payoff. It’s not a thriller y twist, you know, where all of a sudden it’s like, oh my god. I can’t believe that. But it almost, like, flows into the narrative, you know, like Patch finding grace, because some guy in prison knows the town Patch painted, which leads to Patch’s escape from prison, Saint finds finding Patch, then both of them finding Eli Aaron, and then Patch killing him, and then Saint letting Patch go.
It was all so good and came at you so fast. It wasn’t necessarily, like, a twist as much as it was just, like, a payoff. I thought, like, Sammy ending up with Misty’s mom, who, you know, it turns out was his childhood lover, was a nice little, like, twist there. And I guess speaking of Misty, it got all misty in my eyes when Charlene Saint found Patch. He’s a pirate again, you know, when they find him in the Outer Banks.
And I feel like that was symbolic of him being able to to move on from a life devoted to finding grace and stopping Eli Aaron because, like I said before, he went into the basement of pirate, and he came out being like, I’m not a pirate. I’m not a pirate. And then when they find him, he’s back to being a pirate. And I was listening to this part in another place I like to listen to audiobooks, which is in the shower because, you know, nothing beats a good audiobook as your suds and up. And when Charlotte runs into Patch’s arms, I I turned into Tobias Funke.
You know? I don’t know if you’re an Arrested Development guy, but I Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Yep. Yeah.
It was him crying in the shower. Crying in the shower. You had your clothes on like him too, though. Right? I don’t think he has his clothes on.
I think he’s He’s an Evernew. There we go. Yeah. You’re right. He is an Evernew.
But, yeah, I was it it hit me. It hit me. And I thought the red herring with Toomes and also Nyx, but but less so. I thought that was good. You know, I know that you’re not a huge fan of it, but Toomes initially being involved was like, ah, you we were all reading it being like, I knew it Because they kind of led you to believe that he was involved and then he’s involved and you’re like, But then it’s a twist.
And Toomes and Nick’s, you know, their love I thought was great. Big fan of them. Ship it as the kids say. I liked it that the twist, like this was a thriller for sure. It comes back.
It it it is a thriller. It’s a character it’s character driven. Love that. But it’s not a thriller in, like, all of a sudden there’s this one twist at the end that it’s everyone’s like, oh my god. What a crazy twist.
It’s more of just a a story. Like, that’s what I wish more of these thrillers that we’ve read have is it’s not just some, like, big reveal. It just feels part of the story. And I do agree, though, that the saint not aborting her kid one was the one twist that I was like, we don’t we don’t need that. We don’t need that.
Ex too extra. Yeah. I I liked also Grace being real and being his daughter. I for a reason, I never even thought that would Being Eli and his daughter. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Because it made sense why she wasn’t she for she’s kinda brainwashed too. She wasn’t giving away who her dad was. She didn’t want although I didn’t understand.
Was she just down there with him or was she No. She would sneak down there. She would sneak okay. Yeah. That’s what I figured.
But And it was also hilarious. Yeah. It was also great how, Saint realizes that Grace in her stories to Patch is telling him where all the dead girls are buried. You know, she’s telling them all the places she’s been where her father has killed people. I thought that was super cool.
That was a little farfetched that he’d remember all that, but, yeah, I still liked it. Well, yeah, a lot of that a lot of that was that he would remember, like, the word for word and that also that Grace would be so, I don’t know, well spoken that she would be able to, like, create metaphors as she’s talking about where these people are buried. Yeah. But, yeah, you know, it’s it’s literature. Yeah.
We’ll bring that. Yeah. I’m fine with that. What about hates? I kinda went over my two hate.
I do really appreciate that we’re reading Fourth Wing now since it’s such a such light lightness compared to, also, I got to the scene you’re talking about. Holy shit. It went it went zero to a hundred real quick. Yeah. I thought you you said you were five hours left.
I was like, oh, you must have already read it because it’s, like, ten hours in. I thought my hates very and I know these are I’m nitpicking. I’m gonna nitpick here. But the years thing, the book covers a significant portion of Patch’s life, and it’s broken into sections, which are donating the years in which, on the whole, I I appreciate. It’s like, okay.
This section is 1977, and then it goes to 1970 or whatever, 1985. But I had to keep going back to the previous section and and do the math in my head. You know, how much further in the future did we actually travel? So it was a little bit confusing. But at the same time, I’m nitpicking.
Like, I had to go into an app and look back at the previous year. So but then I do the math, like, okay. How old was he then? How old is he now? I did have a tough time trying to figure out how old these people were.
Yeah. I didn’t even know what town they were in. I think I had to look it up as Missouri. Kept talking about the St. Louis Arch.
So I was like, oh, okay. Missouri. Got it. And then the the only other hate and and I really hate to say it, but the short chapters. And I know we can’t we can’t have our cake and eat it too because, you know, we’re always talking about how we love short chapters and the chapters are too long.
But my buddy, Chris, you got a little too far. The chapters should be longer than one page. Like, each chapter was literally there’s 275 chapters in this book, and it’s like a 600 page book. What are we talking about here? What’s going on?
Yeah. Chris uses like chapters like I use commas where I’m just like, I have no idea when to use a comma. So I just put them places. I just assume that’s where they go. So he was just like, and that’s the end of that sentence.
Maybe I should throw it to end of chapter. Yeah. End of chapter. Then just go to the next one and you’re like, hey, what? But hey, I don’t hate it.
You do what I do, which is you say it in your head and if you pause, then I put a comma there. Right? Well, yeah. But I I speak like awesome powers sometimes. I’m like, I also like, comma, comma, to live dangerous.
And then I put, like, dangerous with dashes. That’s what you’re supposed to write. Right? Yeah. We’re good.
I respect it. Do you have any lingering questions? I don’t have any. No. Is Misty Sammy’s daughter?
Oh. Because he told Patch when Patch saved Misty, he said he did you did me a favor by saving the Myers girl. And then, also, Misty has no siblings, and it said that, like, her parents wanted more kids, but they didn’t have any. So maybe her dad doesn’t have any swimmers. So it’s potential that Misty is Sammy’s daughter.
I don’t know why, but I was just picturing Sammy was Lenny Kravitz the whole time. So I thought he might be a different skin color. So I think you’d be able to tell, but I could be wrong. It’s funny you say that because I also thought of Sammy as not a white person. Okay.
Was he? I don’t know. So that’s what I’m doing. I have no idea. It does I don’t think it says, but, yeah.
So when I initially thought about it, I was like, oh, no. They couldn’t be because, like, they’d they’d be able to tell. Yeah. So she’s got recessive traits. I like it, though.
I like that. Let’s get into cast the movie because Universal got the film rights, or should I say the miniseries rights, because that’s what I think this project is expected to be. There’s no real news outside of a few names attached who are the ones creating the series, so we don’t know when it’s coming out. I mean, this book was just written less than a year ago, so or released less than a year ago. So I don’t think it’s gonna be necessarily anytime soon, but it’s definitely on the horizon.
So who’d you cast? You got any main characters here? I did. I’m just gonna do the adult versions of them. Yeah.
No. I don’t think we can do the kids. We can’t do the kids. Third I bet the movie will be, like, they’ll show them as 13 year olds, and then they’ll skip to when they’re 20 like, they’re 20 or something like that. You know, like, they’re just graduating college or whatever it is.
I did Saint. I just took from where the crawdads sing Daisy Edgar Jones. She’s the ones that plays the main character there. I just thought that character is similar to this, the way she’s, like, very, very innocent, but, like, also super driven and Yeah. It’s funny you said that because Caroline said that as well.
She said that what about because we both agreed that Saint shouldn’t be super hot, let’s say. You know what I mean? That’s just how we we both envisioned her. And and I think that actress is very attractive, but she was in Twisters two, which, I don’t know if you’ve seen that that particular film, but they I don’t know. They, like, made her less attractive in that, you know, than what what she was in, you know, When the Crawdads Sing or even she’s in Well, she’s the girl next door, look, is what you need.
Yeah. She’s in the she’s in the Mormon show too. There’s a great Mormon show that she’s in about about a murder about a murder in a Mormon town. So, yeah, it’s funny that you brought that name up because we had also considered her, but I settled on either, for Saint, Caitlin Deavor, who is from, what’s that, bookish or what’s that movie? That, like, girl’s comedy movie that’s kinda, like, super bad, and she’s also in Dopesick.
She’s really good. She’s a good dramatic actress. We both we both liked her in that, and I think she would be a good saint. And then I also thought maybe Julia Garner who plays the girl in Ozark. She’s like the Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. What about Patch? I did Lucas Hedges.
I think I’ve casted him before. He’s in Manchester by the Sea. Honey Boy, he does I was trying to find something that’s a little bit more artistic or a little bit more out there. He seemed like that kind of guy. So I can I can ex respect it?
I think you need a bigger name, though. Like, this is gonna be pretty big. Go on. So I think you need a bigger name. In the interview with Chris Whitaker, and they said, hey.
You know, who would you cast? I was like, you’re now you’re stealing our material. Yeah. Come on. What are we doing here?
And he had a good answer, which is basically, like, the characters live in his head, so he, like, can’t really say who would be in his cast because, like, these characters are people in his mind. But he said a lot of people have been reaching out saying for Jeremy Allen White, who Oh, yeah. I think would be pretty good as Patch, you know, because he’s looks troubled. You know? He looks like he’s seen some shit.
And then Caroline had also suggested that I thought we’re pretty good. Well, she suggested, Dua Lipa’s boyfriend, who is Callum Turner from the new Band of Brothers, the Masters of the Air series, who is really good there. And I think he would hit pretty good as Patch. I haven’t seen this guy before. Yeah.
Yeah. And then lastly, I I don’t know how to pronounce his last name, but Barry Kogan? Yeah. The guy from, Salter. Yeah.
That’d be a good one. Yeah. That’s that’s the answer. Like, he looks pretty he could be a he could be a patch for sure. Yeah.
Did you have anyone else? And then I just said Lenny Kravitz for, for Sammy. Oh, okay. Yeah. The only one that Caroline said we need to cast is Pedro Pascal for Sammy, which I thought was actually fucking spot on.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That worked. And then for Misty, Grace Van Patten, not sure if you’re familiar with that that person, but it it’s tough to find someone in their, like, late twenties that’s blonde. Yeah.
What do you think? Out of out of four buddies, what do you what do you give in this one? Yeah. I think I’m gonna give it this probably be a lower. I’m gonna go three out of four.
The reason this three is just, again, it’s a heavy book. I’d recommend it to Ellie because she likes these type of books. But for me, it’s not up my alley, but it gets the highest mark you can probably get for this type of book. What about you? Like, we talked about this.
I was like, I’m so excited to talk about it. And you’re like, yeah. It’s depressing and whatnot. But, yeah, it is. But there’s also, like, the bonds, the friendship between the people, the the I thought the story.
So I thought it was awesome. Honestly, I thought, I I don’t know if it would hit my, like, top 10 all time, which I feel like we haven’t really touched now that we’re, like, a 10 books in. It’s, like, kinda hard. But if we just think focus on this year, it’s definitely I mean, granted, it’s only February 14, but it’s definitely my favorite book this year, and I think it will hold on to that for a for a long time. I thought between the writing, the characters, the story, it hit everything.
Yes. There’s some flaws. There aren’t any flaws. So I I’d say three seven five. Okay.
Yeah. I feel like a three seven five would be in my top 10. So it’s not gonna get my top 10. So I I think we’re on the same page then. Maybe I’m just grading a little bit lower.
For me, it was like it was like Song of Achilles in that for what it sought to do in my mind, it did that and more. So, yeah, it’s it’s I thought it was I think it’s similar. I agree. Practically perfect in every way, just like Mary Poppins. What do we have coming on next?
Very referenced it, but The Fourth Wing, which is a popular You well, it’s not You after the part I got to I thought it was by Rebecca Yaros, coming up next. I think she just released her third book, so it’s it’s hot in the streets right now. I actually my my hold ran out at Libby, and I was like, oh, shit. I have, like, two hours left. And it said, you know, sixteen week wait.
So I’ll be going to the library tomorrow to get get a hard copy and just finish it. I I would not wanna go to the library and pick this book up. They’d be like, you sure you want those? It’s for my daughter. It’s it’s not for me.
How’s the old your daughter? My daughter. Are you kidding me? I wouldn’t even I wouldn’t say this is for I’d be like, I don’t even know who this is for. And that will be the point of the podcast.
I’m not exactly sure what this is for. They’re gonna put you on a list. They’re like, wait. This guy’s going to a public library to to check out Fourth Wing? I mean, he’s a how old is he?
He’s 38. He’s a man. Okay. The guy next to me in line is gonna be drooling, be like, you’re gonna love that book. They’re gonna start calling you Eli Roth pretty soon.
You’re good. Alright. Yeah. So Fourth Wing’s coming up next, and, yeah, we only got a couple hours left, so we’ll be that’ll be coming soon. All the Colors of the Dark.
I’m I’m really glad we had this conversation because it’s been a long time coming for me. I’ve been thinking about this book for a few weeks. So Yeah. You get your eye on it. Alright.
Last one. Last one. Alright. Alright. You can patch that up and post.
Yeah. Stay in. Alright. Keith, I’ll catch you for fourth wing. Alright.
Alright. Bye now.
