Carried Away – TJ Derry (INTERVIEW) – Episode 134

The Buddies were lucky enough to have author TJ Derry on the pod to talk about his debut thriller, Carried Away. A book that starts as a dreamy Indonesian surf vacation and ends with them questioning every outdoor activity they’ve ever considered. The Buddies dove into the book and many other topics with TJ and finished things off with their patented podcast categories.  So pack your trusty flint, some iced cold beers, and strap in for an amazing debut novel and thrill ride. 

Intro/Book Report (0:00-1:08)

TJ Derry Interview (1:09-50:31)

Stock Up/Down (50:32-1:06:19)

Favorite Scene/Character (1:06:20-1:14:31)

Love/Hate (1:14:32-1:23:21)

Conclusion (1:23:33-1:25:53)

NEXT BOOK: The Will of the Many by James Islington

Transcript for SEO Purposes 🙂

All right, welcome to Book Club.
I’m Dylan here with my podcasting buddy
for something nice and light and apolitical Keith.
What’s up buddy?
How are we doing?
I had to run that line back twice
’cause he referenced it in the book and it was perfect.
And I was having a coffee, so.
We’re bringing out some best sellers
and this week we’ll be discussing carried away
a brand new Hot Off the Press’s debut novel
by TJ Derry.
On top of that, we’re honored by TJ himself
who’s not by to join us in a conversation
about the book and so much other stuff.
So if you’d like to welcome into book first read
which I did in the past episodes,
you can visit our website, buddybook.com.
or sign into our DMs or an extra Instagram,
buddybook.com podcast, you listeners,
iTunes, Spotify, please download
and subscribe and find a story review.
Please thank you.
Before we get into our main categories
and all the stuff you like from buddybook.com,
I think we should jump into the interview first.
So we’ll jump into the interview,
you guys can listen to that and stick around
for all the normal stuff you come for at the end.
But here’s us talking with TJ Derry
about carried away.
All right, so the Book is carried away.
We got TJ Derry on his debut novel.
I’d like to start us off,
neither of us really know much about surfing
and I did go surfing once in Wikeeky Beach
when I was like 13.
I don’t know if it’s really considered surfing
’cause you just had a, you know, on a slow roller.
No, that counts, that counts for sure.
Accounts, okay, cool, well I’m glad, I’m glad.
But the amount of knowledge I gained from that
was probably equally offset
by the amount of nipples that got shaved off
during that process.
Oh yeah, every time.
Oh, what do I mean about that?
It’s like a week later on the gym class
and someone said, “Why are your nipples have scabs on them?”
Yeah, it’s one of those things that,
at least when you go back surfing
after having been off for a while,
there’s so many things that stop you from surfing
the second day or the third day.
Like I might rib-surd and yeah, my nipples are chafed
and yeah, I’m sunburned.
And so yeah, it’s a whole thing.
It’s surfing is really romantic on paper
in practice, it’s kind of violent in a lot of ways.
So that’s something that you learn pretty quick.
yeah, and you can, you can vey that very well
in the book and the way you write the surfing scenes,
I thought was just wonderful.
It helped layman like us understand why someone would lug
surf board halfway around the world to catch a wave.
So I guess my question is,
what is your relationship with surfing
and did you want to write a novel?
I wouldn’t say this novel is about surfing by any means,
but it has surfing as kind of a thing running through it.
So what’s your relationship with surfing
and how did you decide to put that into the book?
so my relationship with surfing is sort of like
fantastical relationship because I don’t live right now
at least anywhere near an ocean.
And so growing up in Southern Ontario, Canada,
you kind of, again, it’s sort of like a romantic,
you romanticize it a little bit
because it’s like the core Lord’s sports.
The one that the rest of the board sports that we had access to
were kind of crafted to emulate, I guess.
So skateboarders on concrete are just people that,
that’s sort of what surfers would do in California
in Venice Beach or whatever when there was no waves.
And they would just kind of go and try to surf
like these embankments or whatever.
And then snowboarding, of course,
is just another derivative of that.
So the source of all of it is surfing
and so my relationship was always just
with watching it and being like,
that’s where you want to end up.
So snowboarding, my whole life and skateboarding
was just sort of like, I guess, you know,
you’d sort of look at that as like,
man, one day, I’m gonna go surf.
And so I lived out in Vancouver for a bit
and I was working on some films out there
and we would go to Tafino.
And that was where I figured out that I love surfing
but can’t surf.
‘Cause that’s what everybody does.
Like I know people think, I could probably pick it up.
It’s just not something you can pick up.
You have to really actually go and try to figure it out
and learn about so much.
And so anyways, that’s sort of what it was to me,
but to write about surfing,
that was never really the intent either.
It was more serves as a vehicle, I guess,
for the story to unfold because I don’t think a lot of people
are gonna pick up a book that’s about surfing
and it’s not that people aren’t interested in surfing
but it’s like when you get too bogged down
with that, those details and specs,
it just becomes about that.
And so that wasn’t what I wanted to write about.
I just wanted to find some way to get these characters
in this situation and sort of that’s what it was for me.
It was really like shy away.
I don’t wanna talk at Nazim about how surfing is great
and how fun it is.
It’s just not really, that wasn’t where I was coming from at all.
yeah, that would have been a very different
and probably less accessible book.
And it’s funny because I live in Cape Cod, Massachusetts,
Keith lives in San Diego.
So you know, we both have the ability to go
and surf somewhere if we wanted to, you know,
with a drive, but neither of us do.
Although Keith is going to Waikiki Beach this weekend.
So maybe you’ll…
yeah, yeah, to pick up the board.
Although after reading this book,
I’m a little nervous because these waves coming in.
So I don’t know.
I think you’ll be all right in Waikiki,
that’s like the bouncy castle of surfing.
But I think it’s just if you can get out there
and find a waiver to you’ll probably,
you’ll probably for better or worse get sucked
into the whole thing and then sort of find yourself handcuffed
by that’s sort of what happened to me once I kind of actually
got the feel for it.
That was it.
yeah, my mom lives on a lake in Michigan
and they do the like Waik surfing out there.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Really fun.
That is super fun.
The good way to learn to do the actual surfing part,
the problem is that it’s not actually what surfing is
because like when you’re taking someone out to learn surfing,
the hard part isn’t standing on the board and riding.
The hard part is figuring out how to get out to the wave
and where to sit and all that stuff is very deceiving
because you think, “I know how to surf, no problem.”
Like did it behind a boat and now I’m like a pro.
And then you get to the ocean and you paddle for two hours
and you don’t get a single wave and you’re like,
Oh man, okay.
Right.
Yeah, it’s definitely the training wheel aspect.
And yeah, shout out to Sutheron Terram.
My sister lives in Georgetown.
Oh nice, yeah, it’s not too far.
Yeah, and spanning on how this story came about,
I really loved the first half because I feel like a lot
of these books and movies about survival
against the elements type thing.
They kind of throw you in immediately
where the first half of this book,
you’ve really got to understand these characters,
they really grounded the whole book
and made you worry about them and had that anxiety.
So I guess the question is,
did you think of these characters beforehand
and then put them in the situation
or the situation come up and you’re like,
all right, now we build characters around
to fit in the situation?
I don’t know if it was either.
I think what I decided was that I wanted to tell the story
and kind of work backward from there.
The characters are all just,
they’re sort of like a patchwork or a mosaic of people
and real people.
So I just as a for instance, like the character
Captain Carlos is a real guy who I’m really close with
and he lives in No Sara Costa Rica.
He just like lifted right out of reality.
So I think it was that it was like,
what I kind of think maybe I treat life like a casting room.
Like I just feel like everyone I meet,
I’m like, man, that guy is so interesting or that girl’s
like so cool.
Like I had a lot of like a deep well to draw from
of just having experience traveling around
and just actual friends from home as well.
So I don’t know if it was really like well thought out.
It was just like it kind of developed on its own volition,
but the character, the idea of writing a book
that had a ton of things that happened that go wrong
and there’s so much at stake,
I thought that it would be a really important thing
to actually like you say,
that kind of care about what happens to them.
So I used what I could to make the characters
feel like real people.
And so that yeah, you do actually care.
And the whole idea of the spectacle film,
it’s like if I talked about this before,
but with Jurassic Park, the first one, you really cared
because the film was set up really well
and you really understood who these characters were.
And then the subsequent newer ones,
they didn’t really do that.
It was just about how many attacks and how many CG dinos
I could cram into it.
And the problem that I have with those films
is that I don’t really, I just don’t really feel invested
or I don’t care what happened.
So I think my thing was if you really feel these people
and you understand who they really are
and you have sort of an intimate understanding
of what their relationships are
and all that stuff, you’ll actually want to follow through
and read what happens because otherwise,
it just doesn’t really have the same impact, I guess.
Interesting, Corla, did Jurassic Park,
as I just recently rewatched all the Jurassic Park
since I was prepping for American Thanksgiving here.
First one hit so hard and then the other ones are just,
do you agree?
Yeah, yeah, that’s good.
well, you cared, the kids Really impact you in that First one
and so does the paleontologist characters,
you’re just in the old man, you’re just,
I don’t know, that’s how you do it in Spielberg,
so is a real master at that and has always been.
So that’s sort of, I think that’s the template
that you wanna at least be influenced by, but again,
the thing that I was saying earlier is like,
you got to write what you wanna write about
and I really felt like these characters were interesting people
and they’re really funny a lot of them too, I thought.
So like a lot of the stuff that some of the characters
that came to me as I was writing it,
which are sort of spontaneous, I was like,
yeah, that’s a really funny line
and or at least that appeals to my kind of sense of humor.
So I tried to work it in so that you were like,
okay, this is actually entertaining
because these people are funny and they’re like,
busting each other’s chops or whatever the case may have been.
Like Kendall specifically is really witty
with the way that she kind of communicates with Cole.
And so I just thought it’s a good groundwork to kind of lay out
so that everything else matters, right?
Yeah, and with Kendall and Cole,
’cause you were talking about ’em,
it’s obviously there are a couple of hot people
on vacation in Indonesia that both like to surf.
So yeah, they’re gonna hook up, I get it.
But it was more about their,
I think more than anything,
their humor, then diagram crossed so well
that they could both do like the,
like he could do the self-deprecating stuff
and she would kind of tease him in the way that your buddies do
even though they had just met.
And I think that really helped that relationship feel natural
as opposed to just a couple of hot people on a beach
meeting each other, it’s like,
Duh, yeah.
the key factor with her is that she sees right through Cole.
And I think when you meet someone who does that,
it’s not just, I don’t know if it’s disarming,
it makes you kind of anxious a little bit in a weird way
and then he feels it right away, like man,
something about this girl is just like,
she doesn’t, she’s sort of like right to my core
and gets what’s going on in my head.
Anyway, that was a thing that I thought was important
about her because she kind of like calls him
as he sees him in a weird way.
And with the first person stuff,
it worked, that works, yes, but only if you pick the right
character because you’re looking through their eyes
the whole time, so it has to be the right character.
And I think choosing, you know,
I mean, this maybe just relates to me as a 30 something
who has been grinding the corporate life for 15 years,
but he’s so relatable and I’m sure loads of people
who read the book will see themselves,
in his over-analysing, like inability to live in the moment,
those traits because at the end of the day,
it really is just part of the human condition, right?
Mmhmm, Mmhmm, yeah, modern humans, yeah.
I think the other thing too is just making sure
that you don’t have to necessarily like cold,
but you don’t want to dislike him.
I think he’s got some neuroticism, he doesn’t,
I didn’t play up the, I tried not to play up
this sort of stereotypical hero character
because I don’t know, that just didn’t feel right,
but he’s definitely loaded with insecurities
and all that stuff.
And so it’s like if you can actually like him,
you know, at least or at least tolerate him well,
that helps, but if you don’t like him,
it’s hard to read a book like you just sort of saying,
it’s like, man, you can’t really get through the book,
you got to actually believe that what this person’s POB is,
it’s at least relatable to you.
So that was sort of the thinking, but yeah,
’cause you’re stuck with them for that 400
and whatever pages, so you better,
you know, you better not really dislike his worldviews
and all that stuff.
yeah, I mean, the only part that I felt was not relatable
is I’m 38 years old.
If I have one too many Miller lights,
there is zero percent chance the next day.
I am going surfing, I am doing anything like I am couch locked
at this age, there’s no, there’s no boot and rallies
or I can’t remember what you said in the book,
but it’s something similar that they’re doing.
The idea of doing a physical activity
in my mid to late 30s is, you know,
the day after drinking is just, that’s just not gonna happen.
So I appreciate his ability to do so,
but I don’t know any one of the 30s I can do that.
That’s the most fictional part of the book.
I will bring up the actual most fictional part
of real quick care, ’cause I related a lot to Cole until,
he takes Kendall back and has a 30s, 30 minutes sex romp,
30 thinner.
Who is this?
You said he wasn’t a hero?
yeah.
No, he’s lying to himself.
He’s lying to himself.
Oh, yeah. I like that.
Yeah, yeah. Especially with her,
it was probably more like 80 seconds or something like that,
but in his mind, he was, yeah, well, yeah, he had a cup,
he had some wine, so he was like, he couldn’t relate
to time and space the way that you might know.
But yeah, no, I, and one of my,
when I sent to my best friend, he wrote back
and he’s like, dude, that’s bullshit.
He’s like, there’s no way, especially as he describes
or he’s like, that’s comedy.
And I’m like, yeah, but, whatever.
So anyway, yeah, that’s your fair enough.
She’s like, she’s like, hell in a troy,
and he’s having a marathon session.
yeah, exactly. yeah, cool.
good for you. yeah, go on, good, yeah.
You know, he’s had a tough couple of months, you know?
But yeah, I think, and I think when it comes to the,
like, I will say this about the hangover thing,
my relationship to hangovers changes dramatically
when I’m not in a cold house in Ontario, Canada,
and I’m in the tropics around idyllic conditions.
So I’m not saying I could do that,
but I will say that in my early 30s,
that’s definitely, that was pretty common for sure,
where you kind of redo it and go anyway.
But those, he, he, you know, it’s a little bit about, yeah,
all the times that he got drunk and Costa Rica
and couldn’t serve the cab he’s complaining about,
those are definitely things that happen.
Yeah. (laughs)
it seems like one of the bigger themes is obviously
getting away, putting your phone down,
kind of enjoying nature, things like that.
However, the second half of this book,
are we, I’m getting a little nervous
about some of these, the elements and things like that.
So I guess, what was, what are the,
a few themes or things you wanted, you know,
the reader to take away,
despite kind of some of the horrific stuff
they go through at the second half of the book?
I think one of the things that, I don’t know if I approached it
with as much forethought as all of that.
I wanted to tell this story,
but one of the things that it became pretty apparent to me
when I was writing it, kind of,
it smarted me a little bit, is that what sometimes,
sometimes what it takes to gain the clarity
that cold gains in those sort of, in that second half,
is a disaster or is something massive
and something that challenges you maybe mortally
or in other ways, but the kind of clarity that only comes
in that is something that I wanted people
to maybe meditate on just a little bit.
It’s really easy and we do it all the time
to just start to take for granted everything you have.
I mean, we live in these modern homes,
they have heating and cooling,
we got refrigerators with a month of,
worth of food and we have stores
and everything at our disposal and at our fingertips.
And I think that it’s worth remembering
that that’s not where we came from as humans.
We came from a really difficult time
where we had to fight for everything
and there was constant strife.
And so I guess that was one of the things
that I thought really started to shine through
is that man, ’cause he talks about that, right?
Like he complains a lot about staring at his ceiling fan
in his apartment every day and dreading the moment
he has to get out of bed and face the world.
But I think that boredom starts to feel
a lot like a luxury to him or like almost like a dream
’cause when he’s floating in the middle of the ocean
and it’s getting dark,
what he would give to be ordering food
from Uber Eats at home and being bored to death
during out as a wall.
And I think it’s super easy.
We’re designed to always be, I guess,
expanding as humans like the dopamine thing.
But I think sometimes it’s worth looking back
at what we have, or looking at what we have
and then looking back at where we came from
because all that stuff is just, we’re also fortunate
and we easily forget it, I think, sometimes.
Yeah, at least what I took away from it,
it’s not necessarily about escaping
the mundane aspects of life,
but appreciating those mundane aspects of life.
And it’s really the simple things like you’re talking about,
having food accessible and on the table,
we just do it every day.
But, and I’m not religious by any means.
But there is something to the idea of like giving thanks
at meal time to really take that and put into words
at what you’re doing at that moment.
I started this thing and I kinda, I have a one year old,
so I’m thinking of traditions or things we wanna do together
and I was thinking, at dinner time,
as opposed to doing some meaningless prayer
or something like that, say, thank someone
that was associated with this meal.
Could be the person who made it for you,
it could be the person that grew the lettuce,
it could be the people who created the petrol
to get the lettuce from Costa Rica to our front door.
Whatever the case is, just understanding the journey
of our food and appreciating it.
I think that something that Cole kinda takes away
as well from this whole, you know, harrowing event in his life.
Yeah, I think that that’s right on.
And we’re boredom is something new, I think, for us
as a species, we’re just trying to figure it out
because I don’t think we would have been bored
until after the industrial revolution maybe
or something because we would always be fighting
for everything or working for everything.
And so now that there’s this, I don’t know what you’d call it,
like an inflation of resources that we’re actually
sitting kind of despair at how we don’t have anything to do
and that’s where a lot of people’s anxieties manifest from
because it’s just, we don’t have anything to worry about
and we’re designed to worry, right?
We beings are too old to worry so that we don’t die.
And when you take away all the things
that we normally be worried about, like the tiger at the door
or whatever it is, it’s like, we have to come up
with things to worry about and be upset about
and that’s just like a big design fly, I feel with humans.
But it’s about learning to, I guess, remember that
we’re really fortunate and you’re sort of comment
about what you do at a meal or anytime that there’s anything,
any kind of like blessing that you have.
Yeah, it’s so important to try to remember that.
It’s really easy to forget because we see it every day, right?
People are pretty entitled and or some people
are pretty entitled these days and it’s just, man,
it can really start to, you can really start to forget
how bad it can get when we actually, we lose that, right?
I think we’ve all forgotten.
I don’t know who said it.
Who said it, but you know, it was like, we’re all 48 hours
of food away from, you know, anarchy or something like that,
which is–
Oh, for sure.
100%.
Right?
And the boredom aspect is interesting as well
because boredom is actually super important,
especially for kids and whatnot to rewire their brains
and unfortunately the whole social media aspect.
Well, this is a whole different story, but the whole social media
aspect of life, for everyone just, you know, we all do it.
We pick up our phone when we have a second of boredom
and to just live in that boredom is actually like what we’re
probably supposed to be doing as opposed
to consuming some terrible content that we have.
Oh, yeah.
Well, when I was a kid, it was like, I’m probably,
I’m around the same age as you.
So it was like, go find a stick that looks like a gun or something.
Like it was an–
Absolutely.
So now it’s, I don’t think it’s what’s on the screen.
That’s as big a problem as what the screen stops the kid
from doing like you’re referring to it.
Or you’re alluding to it’s like, it’s preventing them
from using their imagination.
And as a reader of a book or as a writer of a book,
I should say, you relied pretty heavily on the reader
having an imagination.
And that was part of the cool thing about writing
in a narrative space is like, or like a literary space
versus like a, because I come from a filmmaking background.
It’s so much more fun in a way because if the reader has
the imagination that you hope they have,
they can lift half the weight for you or more.
And you can feed them a lob ball and they can hit it
out of the park because it’s a co-collaborative thing, right?
You’re actually asking them questions and, and,
positing information for them to then take to a internal place
and then conjugate with whatever they’ve experienced
in their life.
And then that’s what a lot of people, I’ve
hoped and have sort of experienced a lot of people saying
that they were reminded them of something
or that it brought them to a place that they had been.
Because that’s, I think that’s one of the goals
is you want to, you want to make somebody feel something
that is relatable.
And with, with filmmaking, I don’t know how I got on this
tangent, but with filmmaking, you’re, everything is very
explicit on, on the screening, right?
The kind of music that’s playing, the sound effects,
the dialogue, how the characters look, what the setting is.
Trying to out folks, something.
Yeah, but it’s all there.
You can’t, you can’t see something else, really.
You can see it and interpret it the way that you want,
but in this case, you’re just putting words in someone’s head
and they’re gonna paint the picture.
And I’ve, I know with the QR codes,
there’s been a few people that have said they didn’t
want to look because of that exact thing.
They’re like, wow, I love that there’s this like journal
and that these characters are there
and you can see these things, but I loved just picturing them
instead and so I didn’t check the QR codes
until I was finished the book.
That kind of thing, so that’s, yeah,
I don’t know if you guys did look at that,
but it does give you–
of course it was my next question.
Okay, let’s go.
I just, I just, I say it was a cool idea
that I haven’t, haven’t seen before
and it almost took me back to,
there was this RL Stein goose bumps back in the day
where they had, like, they choose your own destiny ones,
like the second RL Stein thing that he did,
where you’re going back and forth
throughout the book based on like what you choose to do.
right, Right.
And this is obviously different than that,
but it kind of took me back to those memories
and just having a journal in it,
I assume you were talking about the cab ride
when you were journaling your last will and testament.
yeah.
but, so I assume you have a history of journaling
and you’re familiar with that.
So was it that aspect of your own life
that you decided you wanted to bring into this?
Or like, what was the goal with it
and how did you decide to integrate it
into the story using the QR code?
I don’t know, I actually don’t know.
I do journal when I’m on trips a little bit
and I like to find, I don’t know,
souvenirs is a little trinkets, that kind of stuff,
the things you’d see in his journal.
I don’t know if he should be doing it back,
I’m not sure if that goes through customs
and they find trace elements like this.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, that’s the fiction part again, yeah.
That was pretty funny, that’s pretty funny.
But I don’t know, I guess it maybe it’s something
about the filmmaker element in me.
I just, I found myself describing things
in the book that are hard to picture for some people.
Like I said, you can’t always infer that your reader’s gonna know
what the structure of their building is,
looks like or what the coast of Sumatra looks like
versus how the mental eye islands look
and all that stuff.
I just felt when I was reading it, or writing it,
I was like, I wonder if there’s maybe the chapter
heading page I could have some sketches
that would help elucidate a little bit of that stuff.
But then I was like, that’s just,
I felt like that was a little tacky
and it’s really complicated with trying to get a book
printed that has graphic elements as well.
So I just sort of thought, it just sort of evolved into,
well maybe it’s a separate sidecar element
and that took me on a four month journey
trying to figure out how to draw.
And then how to–
so did All the illustrations as well?
yeah, I did.
And not by choice, I just didn’t, I don’t think,
well I don’t think that hiring an artist makes sense
because you’d have to suspend disbelief too hard
to believe that coal is this like magnificent artist.
I just wanted it to look better than how I was drawing,
but not so good that you wouldn’t believe
that he can actually come up with these illustrations.
So I don’t know if I found that balance,
a lot of the stuff is pretty, pretty okay looking
but yeah, I just wanted there to be a touch point
for some of the descriptions and some of the stuff
that he’s talking about and seeing
and then when the idea of the Polaroids came through,
again it just sort of dawned on me and like, man,
it wouldn’t be cool if somebody had a Polaroid camera
and so admittedly that didn’t come in
till like the 11th hour, so it’s not spoken
about in the actual narrative of the book,
but I was like, ah, whatever, you don’t have to tell
everything about everything in the book.
So I just sort of like–
yeah, I figured that one out.
Yeah, so the idea of
and they say, I pulled up my coat of the egg
and I figured it out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I figured it out. – Exactly.
So that stuff, I just felt like it’s really textural
and of course the thing survives a bit of damage
so it looks really textural and interesting
and the way that that was built was
I had a real journal, a real journal
that I actually kind of weathered and distressed
and then I took a really high resolution
stills camera and I shot plates of it,
like 40 pages of plates
and then all of those went in and all of the elements
were laid on top of that.
So it was actually a really fun creative process
but that took me three months of pretty much every day,
eight hours a day and it wasn’t in the original plan
when I began this book.
So it felt like I was doing it in another book entirely
but I think it was worth it.
People, at least for the most part,
seemed to really have enjoyed it.
So glad that it happened, you know?
yeah, I thought it was a great addition.
It brings so many different things together,
it brings books and then also everyone,
you know, when they’re reading,
they have their phone next to them,
everyone has their phone attached to them anyways.
So to bring that into the story and say,
hey, you know, scan the QR code and see these,
I think you’re downselling your illustrative abilities
because the crocodile, are you kidding me?
That’s the best crocodile I’ve ever seen,
should hang that thing in the loop.
Oh, dude, but I had, you know, long that took me.
Like if you could see the eraser marks,
you wouldn’t be as impressed, I promise it took
so much to get that done and the car is too,
like drawing the cars.
Oh, God.
I just feel like if it’s worse than that though,
as a reader, you’re like, yeah, I don’t know.
And this guy’s not good, like he shouldn’t draw.
Yeah, but it’s a peek behind the curtain of Cole’s,
you know, experience.
So yeah, that was a great addition.
And the Polaroids, did you like take pictures of people?
Did you ask people, or did you like Gen AI people?
These are pictures from past trips
and so they made their way in
because they were on my hard drive.
I like to travel with like, you know, old expired film.
yeah.
Roles and so taking photos of friends or whoever.
And then the film always comes back really gnarled up,
looking in kind of like the colors are all flushed out
and then it’s, ’cause Polaroids generally don’t have
a lot of contrast, they’re kind of like the blacks
or a little gray and the whites are a little gray.
So I tried to like find that,
’cause the shots that I included on the Polaroids were
composited, ’cause they weren’t actually Polaroids.
So I just used film photos and kind of like,
purpose them as Polaroids, but you have to work
with them to try to make sure that you can compress
the dynamic range a little bit because Polaroids
are a lot of things, but they don’t give you a whole lot
of color or like a whole lot of contrast.
They’re kind of flattened.
So we’ll have to work on that and then it sort of turned out
how I was hoping it would.
But that was a pretty cool thing and I thought,
it is gonna be maybe split the room
because not everyone’s gonna wanna see Kendall
and not everyone’s gonna wanna see Cole and like,
and that’s fine, that’s totally up to the reader, right?
Yeah, I didn’t mind it, so just saying it, didn’t mind it.
But also I did find, I was like, okay,
so Cole is absolutely jacked, got it, check.
Okay, just making sure, 30 something in a corporate gig,
like this guy might be surfing days might be behind it,
but oh no, oh no, Cole’s hit me elliptical, that’s for sure.
Oh yeah, Cole, he’s out there at the F45,
he’s the, yeah, he’s that guy.
Yeah, that crossed my mind a little bit,
but I think because of that culture,
like the go on surf trip culture,
it’s funny how it turns people into working out
for 11 months of the year because they’re going surfing
for three weeks is a really funny kind of paradigm
because or paradox, I’m not sure which one,
but it’s funny because I know people who are like that,
they’re like, well I surf from January to February 15,
gotta be the most fit person on earth,
which is funny, it’s not like necessary at all,
but it does bring out, I guess some of the,
I mean, you’d have to call that a good thing
and so it does bring that out of people,
which is always nice, it’s like you want to surf.
Yeah, it’s a reason to get home, hit the gym,
is that you’re gonna take in six months from?
And surfing is well for a lot of people,
it takes them places, so it gets you into a place
where you wanna be fit and you wanna stay young
and then you actually go and you travel to places
that you normally wouldn’t, like no one’s going to Neas Island
for another reason, at least as far as I’m concerned,
so it’s like you’re gonna travel all the way across the world
and then get on a boat for four hours
to travel to this remote spot.
I don’t think that the casual traveler is doing that.
So it does serve out this sort of secondary motivation
for people to go and do something that’s, I guess,
amazing in its own way, it’s like,
I don’t know anyone who’s doing that, otherwise, right?
yeah, for sure. yeah, for sure.
It’d be weird if there was just that one,
you know, fat guy on the beach,
I think it’d be a good one.
‘Cause the question did come up, it’s like,
well, I should candle, but that’s who you meet,
if you’re in Bali, for instance, you’re not,
that’s just who’s there, it is what it is.
Like it’s sort of like part of that culture.
Yeah, you’re gonna get the hot 30 yoga surfing,
you know, that’s what you’re gonna see there.
You’re talking about the characters
and being cladis ghosts and whatnot,
and the genesis of Furns nickname, real name, Adam,
but reminds the guys is Zach Alphanakis,
they call ’em Furn, between two Furns.
Did you create this out of, you know,
whole cloth or is this based off of like a nickname
of a friend you have in real life?
That’s a funny one.
I actually did have a friend named Furny,
but that wasn’t what drew me to that.
It was actually this, he’s kind of a,
he’s a papistry of a bunch of different people,
but in my head he began looking like Zach Alphanakis.
So that actually kind of came sort of in its own ornate way,
but I wasn’t thinking of my old friend from high school
that was named Furny.
I just, it’s hard to name characters.
I feel like, yeah.
And Cole was a tough one for me,
and like you don’t wanna write like a surf book
about a guy named Chase and Logan,
and like all of these guys,
it’s like if you can get,
it’s so easy to become this cliche,
and be like, no one’s named that.
That’s ridiculous.
So I wanted to kind of break away
from the typical naming conventions and give them on
and them to one of them,
and that was sort of the best bet I had.
And he’s not dissimilar to the way that Zach Alphanakis
was in between two friends,
’cause he’s kind of cantankerous in a bit of a,
I mean, he’s a loudmouth, and so,
and he’s constantly busting balls,
which is I felt like what that show was.
It was like take a famous guy interviewing other famous people,
but he’s completely unhinged and I thought,
it all kind of felt right, I guess.
Yeah, and we all, I feel like we all have a fern in our life,
especially when you’re one of your travel buddies.
And I thought it was, it hit with me too,
because I have a friend, a dear friend named Chase.
And his name is, his name is Chase,
because he, in college, freshman year,
he tore his ACL, and it was right when Eight Mile came out.
So there, and his name’s Rob,
so there was Cheddar Bob in Eight Mile,
so his name became Cheddar Bob,
because Cheddar Bob getting shot
and having a limp as well,
and it just then boiled down to cheese or provolone or,
any pick your cheese, and that’s him.
So it was funny.
Yeah, so that’s what I’m talking about.
You just perfectly exemplified the idea of like,
I threw you something, you caught it,
and you mixed it with your own reality,
and it became true to you.
And I think that’s sort of what I learned
as I was writing this, it’s like,
man, if the right person reads it,
it’s just gonna be like,
clicking on all cylinders, ’cause it’s just like, man,
I got that same thing.
And so, yeah, but he has a character.
He does represent a large,
I guess a large portion of people’s friend groups
in some way or another,
and I think that’s why,
I definitely have had a few people be like, man,
that character is the best in the worst.
Yeah, and we did, I’d done trips with some buddies,
and we did a three week ski trip all around the East
and in Canada, and I have a friend
who’s very much like Furn, who was on a trip,
and so he was calling to me throughout the entire book.
is he gonna listen to this?
Absolutely not.
That’s too bad.
and if so, I would tell him to his face.
He knows, he knows he’s a contaker, his asshole.
In my circle, I don’t know that they fully
have the self-awareness that you’d expect or hope,
but I think, I mean, maybe they have like an inkling
that there may be that guy,
but I don’t know, I mean, just think of it.
They definitely don’t.
a psych evaluation would be Really entertaining
on someone like that for sure.
Yeah, but if you’re in, you know,
if you’re at Montreux Blanc,
and you’re looking for a good time,
he’s the guy who’s shaking hands with a random bartender
who’s getting some drugs for you that you didn’t expect.
Oh yeah, so that’s, he’s that guy too,
so there’s great aspects to that.
the drugsniffing dog, human.
Yeah, I definitely have friends like that.
Yeah, sticking with Furn and Logan,
I did wanna get your thoughts on,
for Logan was the whole thing somewhat worth it
so that he could hold it over Furn’s head from then on out.
The whole, I saved your life and, you know,
anytime the argument starts,
it’s just so you could always bring it up.
It’s almost like the automatic winner, right?
And some ways he was thinking about that
when he was saving his life, he was like,
Yeah, I gotta one up on him from now on out.
Yeah, because if he dies,
then I’m gonna have, well, it’d be terrible,
but then I’m never gonna be able to like,
throw this back at him in, yeah, exactly.
Yeah, so in the journal,
and this is sort of an afterthought,
I wrote that, yeah, I guess,
well, Cole’s gonna go over to Furn’s
who’s staying with his parents,
and he says it’s gonna be like a sign felt,
like George Costanza kind of arrangement.
And so that’s like post-fact
where they’re recovering back in New York.
And I think, yeah, I think like,
because of their best friends in Logan and Furn are like,
undeniably going to die for one another,
there’s a funny dichotomy of also, yeah,
but I also saved your life, dude,
so I need you to like do this for me.
And I think that, yeah,
’cause Logan’s not exactly dissimilar to him, right?
He kinda is the first to get roped into
a stupid argument with this guy.
And so, yeah, it is like a game of chess with the pair of them.
And so I think that would definitely going forward.
And we’ll see if there’s anything that comes from this,
in terms of like a sequel or a second book,
but I like it.
I had been kinda thinking about it,
but I think there’s some things that are definitely lingering
there, obviously, calling Kendall’s relationship
and whether there’s anything that comes from that
and then the guys and then also Carlos,
who disappeared without a trace, that kind of thing.
So, yeah, I can imagine,
I could just sort of interpret what Logan’s,
you know, three years down the road,
conversation with Furn might be.
Yeah, and on the flip side had they saved him,
but luckily Cole was smart enough,
and basically a medic up there was able to save his leg,
but had it had to be apitated or injured,
would Furn, do you think, in your mind,
turn into like, lieutenant Dan type thing,
being like, you should let me like,
go out on my board,
or would it be one of those things where now he holds
that over Logan the whole time,
oh, yeah, well, my leg’s gone,
’cause he, like, that thing, like,
I don’t know. – Yeah, I don’t know.
That’s a change, that relationship is there.
I don’t imagine that Furn would be like,
I think behind that declaration by lieutenant Dan
is a lot of honor, a lot of like, cried.
I don’t know. – Yeah, that’s the fourth generation
of military mind.
Yeah, I don’t think Furn’s thinking that, man.
I think he’s thinking like,
get me the fuck outta here, man.
Like, yeah, I don’t know.
That’s pretty funny though,
the picture him like lieutenant Dan,
but I think, when I was writing it,
obviously the option of what happens to Furn
had come up a few times,
and half the time I was like, man, does he die?
And I couldn’t do it, like I couldn’t write it,
because it turned it so gruesome.
For me, at least, I just couldn’t–
Get smart.
I couldn’t bear to do it.
And I just watched this movie, it’s Christmas right now.
So I just watched this movie called,
The Man Who Invented Christmas,
which is quickly becoming my favorite Christmas movie ever.
Ooh, I love this. And it’s about,
it’s a biopic, but a screenplay about Charles Dickens writing
a Christmas Carol.
And the discussion about whether Tony Tim Dives
or Lives is a big center of contention for him
in that book, because his instinct is that Tony Tim Dives
to die, and all of the people surrounding him are like,
if Tony Tim Dives, and what the hell is the point of any of it?
And it just reminded me of that,
because I did grapple with that for about,
I almost a year actually to be honest,
’cause I was like writing that last part,
a lot of people that I spoke with friends,
confidence and stuff are like, man, he needs to die.
Like, not everyone’s gonna survive that.
And I was like, dude, if he dies,
I’m just gonna hate the book.
I’m just gonna hate it.
So, but I would recommend watching that film.
It’s incredible.
Yeah, it’s got like 78, 79 Ron Tomatoes, pretty good.
Man, I would say it’s a masterpiece.
It doesn’t look at all like a Christmas hallmark film,
like it’s cinematic, it’s shot on,
and it’s got some real big name actors,
like Christopher Plumber plays, Scrooge and, man,
it’s a masterpiece.
Like, I watch that every year at least twice.
So, I started watching it like three years ago,
this is when I first discovered it,
but yeah, I’m like borderline kind of like,
waiting for that to, for the season to come around
or I can watch it again, ’cause yeah, really,
and also because of my own struggles,
I’m gonna write a book, which I know it,
I didn’t have to talk about that, but is not easy.
And so, watching him kind of in his, in his office,
having like, shouting matches with himself
about trying to write this book,
I kind of felt that in a different way
that I think most people might, it just,
I was like, man, that was seriously relatable.
So, yeah, I would highly recommend.
If you see the great struggling, it’s like,
oh, okay, like, I’m not alone,
and also, if these guys are having such a hard time
writing something that’s so amazing,
then, you know, it makes sense that I would have,
but, you know, it’s not supposed to be easy
to put this 400 pages together.
Oh, God, and I assure you it isn’t.
I speak about movies.
A lot of movie references in the book,
from, you know, I was kind of jotting them down
as I was going through it,
but “Pire to the Caribbean,” “Anker Man,” “Scarface,”
Apocalypse Now, “Catch Me If You Can.”
Oh, that’s so funny.
Granted, I’m glad you went with Christopher Watkins
monologue in “Catch Me If You Can” as opposed to Pulp Fiction,
’cause that would have been a very different,
very, very different one.
This is Spinal Tap, Rambo, “Point Break Potentially,”
Viacundios, I just said that’s a point break reference
in the book. – Oh, yeah, it is.
Okay. Jurassic Park,
or maybe Logan was referencing the documentary, “Light
Magic,” I’m not sure, because he talks about–
what did he say again?
he talks about how they made the sound
for the dinosaurs. – Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, okay.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, Right.
“Light Magic,” if you haven’t seen it,
phenomenal documentary. – I have, yeah, it’s incredible.
Yeah, either way, I think it’s safe to say
that you’re a fan of the big screen.
So now that the book is completed,
when the studios start calling for film rights,
do you picture specific actors in these roles?
Like do you have a dream cast?
Patrick Swazie from the age.
Yes. I know.
Actually, I have zero idea,
because I’m not a big contemporary film person,
I don’t love what Hollywood’s been up to
in the last decade and a half maybe,
and I don’t even know who’s of age right now
to play that role.
I don’t know a single actor.
At least not the one that springs to mind.
I come from like– – You can say anyone,
so to be fully transparent with you,
we do this for a lot of the books we read,
we kind of will think about a cast that we’d have for them,
and it’s never now, because that’s always impossible for us,
so it always ends up being, you know,
it would be Patrick Swazie,
but in dirty dancing, Patrick, right?
right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay.
Or like, we’re gonna say Tom Cruise,
but it’s the outsiders, Tom Cruise,
it’s not, you know, Tom Cruise, right?
yeah, yeah.
through Red Square.
As a 60-year-old, that looks like he’s 40, you know?
Yeah, my answer to Cole is probably,
I’m not sure, but I feel like River Phoenix,
when he was kind of like– – Oh, let’s go, yeah.
But the thing with River Phoenix is he was not as neurotic,
he’d have to figure out how to,
he’d have to learn how to be more neurotic, I think.
I think that’s part of what makes Cole who he is,
is his sort of–
I feel like he could do it.
he could probably do it.
I mean, the guy is, his eternal self-doubt
and self-deputation has to be in the eyes.
And I think that would be amazing.
I mean, Jack Black could have probably played Byrne
when he was much younger.
That kind of–
Same physical sort of characteristics.
yeah, you see kinds of rewind, Jack Black?
yeah, something like that.
Yeah, when he’s, yeah, a little bit, little bit younger.
And then the rest of the guys, that, I don’t know.
But that’s a great question.
And let’s just hope that, yeah, there’s some kind of discussion
at some point about the film.
It’s, all those references that you talked about,
I mean, to my, to my girlfriends, Shigran,
I definitely wanna rewatch movies versus go on a hike.
At night time, like she loves to go do something physical.
And I’m like, let’s watch Point Break for the 30th time
this week or whatever.
So it’s one of those things.
But I think, I like that you picked up the,
the Anker Man thing, because I totally forgot that.
I was in there, you’re talking about the brick killed again, right?
yeah, brick killed again.
Yeah, yeah.
It was brick killed again.
I just feel like that vintage of adult, those early,
early, early, those movies were really amazing,
especially the comedy ones.
And so I feel like that.
Yeah, well, they don’t do comedies like that anymore.
It’s just, you know, that was peak comedy.
Grant, did I, I was upset there wasn’t an awesome power
reference personally, but, you know.
I know, thank you.
yeah, there was a bunch of good ones.
And I’m the same way.
Kate, did you have anything else?
No, I just wanted a recommendation,
maybe get into Margot Robbie’s hand for Kendall.
I mean, y’all Australian girl coming up surfing.
I mean, I don’t know if that’s the modern,
but I think she fits the bill, I think.
yeah, maybe.
Well, she was, maybe like the,
the Wolfel Wall Street era kind of that,
that Margot Robbie’s talk here?
That’s not Margot Robbie, I know.
Yeah, I don’t know.
Yeah, you’re right.
Yeah, that’s it.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I’ll take that recommendation
and we’ll run with it.
Yeah, if you need some casting stuff,
you know, we’re here for you.
yeah.
I don’t know what they’re doing in Hollywood.
I don’t know.
It’s, Tarantino just said it’s the worst era in Hollywood
since the 1950s and I think I agree.
I don’t quite, I don’t go to see new stuff really,
unless it’s something.
I don’t know, it’s just weird.
It’s like Hollywood.
It’s like that idea when you mix the commerce
and the board of directors and the stockholders with the art,
like Rick Rubin will tell you all about that.
It’s like, that’s the worst place
to be coming from, it’s like testing a movie.
It’s like, you know, the way to make good art
is to give some author like the reins
and let them make the thing that they want to make the most
and that they find makes them feel most alive
or most excited and let them do it.
Instead, they’re like, well, what do people want to see?
And it’s like your reverse engineering,
what it should just be natural art, right?
It’s like, no one’s got a tuning fork for the masses.
You’ve got to, it’s like, if you’re a songwriter, right?
What feels real to you?
What matters to you?
Don’t do that game where you’re like,
how can I make money by doing this art form?
I don’t think that serves it in the way
that it needs to be served for it to be any good
in the first place.
So it’s just like it’s a losing battle from the beginning.
And I think that’s where Hollywood’s caught up right now.
It’s like, they got Warner Brothers has
and Netflix has all these, they have all these shareholders.
It’s like, what makes the money not what is good?
So TJ, you’re dedicating a portion of sales
to some guy watch.
Can you tell us a bit about the organization
and why what they’re doing is important to you?
It’s more that it really fits the book
because the book set were there set there.
And they’re sort of in Bali and Indonesia as a whole,
but they’re a group of sort of cowboys
that it’s like three siblings
and they were out one day, they’re in Bali.
I’m not sure I think they’re from South Africa or something,
but they’re in Bali and they noticed all of this
waste on the beaches and they kind of have this journey
of discovering that all of this waste is coming in
from these river systems.
And so they just started to throw on hip-waiters
and the three of them would climb into the river
and start to pull the junk out.
And they sort of restoring the mangroves
and all these systems and low land wet zones
and they would make Christine what was once a garbage dump.
And so that started to get a little bit of attention
in Indonesia and they started to get a following
and now they have like 150 people who are volunteers
and they have these massive recycling plants
that they’ve built.
They’re just shacks, but they’re these huge footprint areas
where they take all of the waste and they sort through it
and they color coded and then they make recycled furniture
out of it and all this stuff and flip-flops.
And I just saw that and I was like this book relied
so heavily on the ecosystem in the ocean
and all the stuff that surrounds coal and the gang
that it would make a lot of sense to try to give those guys a hand.
I don’t know whether they’ll get a lot of money out of it
but I’m trying to offer what I can
because I think it’s a really important thing
where I guess in a place where the ocean pollution
is really tangible, you can see it, it’s more like to me,
it’s even more clear than anything like climate change.
It’s just in your face, it’s on the beaches,
you’re covering your boards covered with cellophane
when you’re surfing out there.
And so I just thought it was important to try to support them
and do what I can to give them a hand.
I think they deserve it man.
It’s like when that kind of cowboy,
I’m just gonna go out and do it with no support, no funding
and you’re just gonna go, and no cameras,
you’re just gonna go start cleaning.
I think that’s the most incredible spirit
and we got it, reward that, I think.
Yeah, that’s right.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
For sure, even just getting there and even out there.
So some guy watch people can go looking up too
because yeah, I checked it out and I was like,
Holy smokes, these guys are actually doing something.
Like you said, it’s not okay.
We’ll collect a bunch of money
and we’ll figure out what we wanna do with it.
It’s, no, let’s just go do it.
Yeah, those guys are active, that’s what I mean.
And they set up these barriers too.
So it’s like all those rivers.
So whenever it floods in Indonesia or rain,
so I should say, all of the junk that people throw
in inland goes and gets flushed out.
So it’s like every time there’s more.
So they set up these gates that are eco-friendly
and they don’t prevent wildlife from passing them
but they stop the garbage.
And so you basically try to cut it off at the source
and you get rid of what would be an influx of plastic waste
every time it rains.
And if they’ve been under attack lately,
there’s so much rain happening there.
It’s been like a crazy amount of storms this year.
So those, hopefully those barricades are still functioning
but yeah, like you said, it’s like you can donate
to any other cause but I can see that these people
are just out there doing it.
And that’s where I think, that’s where the rubber hits the road.
It’s like, they’re not in the planning stage.
They’re just out there collecting garbage.
It’s amazing, it really is amazing.
Great, well, the end of the book carried away,
it really got me, you know, honestly,
I was surprised at how emotional I was when Fern rejoined
the guys after being released from the hospital.
It’s like, you know, they’re, I don’t,
it’s not often that I’m like getting tiered up
reading a book like this or something like that
but it happened. – Yeah.
And it’s a testament to your character building
and storytelling.
So I appreciate you taking the time to write the book
and to chat with us today.
I wish you the great success with this book.
thank you so much.
I really appreciate that.
It’s writing this, you do it sort of alone in a vacuum
and you hope that people pick up the things that you’re,
that you’re writing down and feel them
and it’s just really nice to hear that people
reading it or feeling that cause that’s pretty much
the ultimate goal, right?
Just, yeah, yeah, for sure.
that was, that was a Really nice conversation, Keith.
I had a great time.
It was 9 a.m. over here in my part of town
on Monday mornings.
I apologize for the low energy, I brought,
but yeah, that was super fun to hear from him
and get a talk with him.
Yeah, it’s noon.
All I’ve been drinking all day is coffee.
It’s a two pot, two pot, two pot, day.
So I was– – I haven’t had a caffeine yet.
I’ve had to get some.
I was like, furred off that Colombian bang bang.
I was, I was geared up and ready to go.
I’m ready to chat about it.
Oh God, yeah.
I’d also just finished the book like two nights ago.
We went to Caroline’s parents for an early holiday
and I was like, I want to have to read this book too.
So kind of best of both worlds, sitting with the in-laws,
but I was like, I gotta read a book.
So– – Yeah, it was escape.
yeah, perfect.
just so you know, gotta read a book.
So without having a book report,
let’s jump into some stock up, stock down.
Keep what you have for a stock up, for care to wait.
Stock up making friends on vacation?
You know me, that sounds something I do.
I don’t think I’ll, I’m going solo in a trip.
I’ll probably talk to two people on total.
I’m just, unfortunately, not a,
someone that’s super outgoing, things like that.
But I’ve been doing it all wrong because let’s face it,
if they don’t meet those Australian girls,
first of all, the trip I’m sure is not as enjoyable.
Obviously the first half.
Oh my God.
You wouldn’t be as dehydrated.
They’re still on, you know, crocodile island right now,
fighting for their lives.
No way.
They’re stuck there.
Furns done so.
The fact that matter is,
go out and talk to people, I guess that’s a thing.
yeah. you gotta do.
I mean, the other thing I wanted to bring up
about the girls in particular though is that
they just got hit like two title waves.
Like, you know, they were basically dying
from thirst out in the ocean, sharks are attacking them.
And Cole kept them being like, man,
I really hope the girls are okay.
I’d be the exact, I’d be like,
those goddamn girls up there safe right now.
I’d be so pissed at them because they,
I’d be so jealous obviously.
But like, the fact that he was that caring
and thinking about them and at the worst time of his life,
that was like super selfless of him.
That’s something I would never do.
So that’s probably why I can’t meet friends on vacation.
Maybe that’s why.
yeah.
But it’s impressed by that.
Bernie now because I was gonna talk about it later,
but Cole himself,
and we kinda talked with TJ about this,
but he resonated with me a lot and I’m assuming you too.
We’re both in our mid to late 30s.
We’ve been working corporate gigs.
His humor is self-deprecating.
He has a lot of self-doubt in his, you know,
his actions and his normal day life
and things that happen to a lot of people.
But I totally saw a bit of him in myself
while I was reading this.
That is until the tragic events of the tsunami
because after that, he’s the guy that’s
saying, “Okay, you know, we just gotta hold on,
you know, stick with it.
There’s gonna be shark stack, it’s fine.
I’m gonna have a plan.”
Like, having a plan, he’s swimming out to stuff
to help people wear a fern on the other hand
is we’re all gonna die.
Let me die.
We’re all gonna die.
This is terrible.
Fuck this.
I immediately switched.
I was cold at the beginning and then I was a fern at the end
where I would have been, let me go.
I’m dying.
I don’t want to suffer.
Just let me drown.
I’m good.
So it’s funny how I see you.
I’m seeing the merits of,
Do we want to die by sharks or drowning?
I’d be like arguing, which one I want to die?
It wouldn’t be a question of if I’m dying.
It’s, which way do I want to go out?
That’d be very, very somber.
So I’m glad cold, there’s someone like cold,
that could lift the group up a little bit.
Yeah, you need that person, but that wouldn’t be me.
I’d be saying, night has fallen.
There are sharks in the water.
I’d even talk about, in the interview,
Jaws, he referenced Jaws as well.
But that would be my mindset.
I’m not getting eaten by a shark.
So let me drown.
Hold me underwater, please.
Yeah.
My first stock up is being a pyromaniac stock up.
So our boy, Cole, obsessed with beach bonfires.
Obsessed.
The point that he carries a flint around with him,
hoping he’ll have a chance to light it up.
They go spear fishing, catches a couple of lobsters.
You know what that means?
Beach barbecue people, meets back on the menu.
We’re having a fire.
It’s pretty much the only reason why he
wants to catch these lobsters is just
to do the beach barbecue.
Invited to a full moon party while he’s hungover.
But here’s there’s giant bonfire, say no more fam.
I’m there, giant bonfire.
But his pyromaniacism, which is a word I just made up,
ends up saving his ass when he and the boys are marooned
on a desert spit of land.
And he’s like, yeah, hold on, guys.
I got a flint in my pocket.
We’re having hot food tonight.
So I guess carrying around a flint,
this guy’s straight out of survivors, something like that.
Jeff Probe’s would be giving him props.
Yeah, so it’s a stock up because you usually
the pyromaniac are the crazy people.
See Stephen King’s the stand, but not cool.
Save his ass.
Well, I think that’s one of the best things you can be.
Because everyone kind of gets labeled something in the group.
You know, you have a big grilled guy, which I really
appreciate is that person in the group.
You’re on a group trip with bodies and things like that.
You got the fire guy, the guy that’s like, hey,
let’s get a barbecue going.
Let’s get somebody going, I’ll get the wood.
Let me go chop some stuff down.
We go gather some timber, things like that.
Well, then they have like the strip cup guy.
Not a big fan of that guy.
Yeah, you know, sometimes you need them,
but that’s a bachelor part is usually
and I’m not the biggest fan of those.
But like, everyone has their kind of role.
And I think the fire guy is a necessary role.
It’s a very necessary.
You knew that outdoorsy person?
I mean, obviously this group would be all outdoorsy,
but just any trip that’s huge to have, just in case
things do go haywire.
That person’s like, oh, oh yeah, we need to make fire.
I got you.
Let’s get a couple sticks together.
Look at my flint here, obviously.
So yeah, no, I think that’s big.
Cole also has a little bit of you in him.
He’s the game up guy.
You know, it’s like, all right guys, let’s game up.
We got this boat.
Let’s go surfing with you know, you might be more of,
let’s go play flip-cart or something like that,
or spike ball on the beach.
But he’s got that.
Was that who you would put yourself in this group?
The game up guy?
Well, I love the person that’s the positive party guy.
I need that person in my group, because otherwise,
I’m down to dumbstand, you know, like I,
I’m just giving you some kind of a little bit of a way.
So I think I’m more of the, I will buy into whatever people need,
and I’ll make that as better as I can,
but I can’t do it myself.
Unfortunately, I’m not a follower, not a leader.
Yeah.
So that’s what I, okay.
I respect that.
Yeah.
I mean, we need that too.
We need that too.
My next stock up was stock up to never stepping
out of your comfort zone.
Yeah.
This is all trying to get out.
I had a question that I was like,
Wait, should I not be doing anything out of vacation?
So you, yeah, you kind of talked about this with DJ,
and it’s fun to be, a lot of the book is about,
“Hey, you know, get out of the monotony of life,

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00:57:08,880 –> 00:57:12,200
go see the world, go experience surfing.”””
I mean, I still remember when I went to the Grand Canyon,
it blew my, I was in a terrible job.
I quit the job and was kind of in distress,
and I went to the Grand Canyon, saw the stars,
and was like, holy shit,
this world is so much bigger than me, I’m nothing,
and it felt great.
But at the same time,
I could have very easily just slipped into the Grand Canyon
and died, which is pretty much what almost happens
to these guys, ’cause then at the end of the book,
Cole, after he survives the,
the heroics would have me in the afterbath,
he’s like, you know what, maybe those,
those creature comforts at home
and sitting there staring at my steelic fan,
you know, maybe that wasn’t so bad.
So there was a bit of a confusion in messaging,
potentially, as to is it good to step out of your comfort zone
or is it better to just enjoy sitting on the couch
watching Point Break seven times?
‘Cause I love that.
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don’t think it was,
That’s their like TJ wasn’t meaning for it,
and it wasn’t confusing, you know what I mean?
But it’s funny just how Cole kind of went full circle on that.
I was Trying to go through All the different things
that occur, crocodiles, sharks, stingrays, jellyfish,
would jellyfish were like, might as well have been like,
nothing to them.
I was like, jellyfish are scary,
I mean, I think jellyfish, I’m nervous, right?
Aren’t they?
Super scary.
They’re like, oh, there’s some jellyfish below,
so that’s cool, I’m like, no, that’s,
I’d be terrified of that alone.
Yeah, bioluminescent jellyfish, I was like,
that is straight out of some Orwellian novel
or something, I’m not into that.
and while I appreciate TJ thinking
that I could potentially be a surfer,
I just know based off of this,
I couldn’t, ’cause the servers are,
they’re just bred different, they’re just different animals,
they like can take it, I’m not tough like them,
’cause he describes how good the surf session they had,
but a couple of times they’re like,
oh yeah, and at that time I got like knocked over
and like came up coughing out all like seawater in my nose,
so I’m like, have you read that happen to you?
yeah.
Like seawater, like you swall,
it’s one of the worst things that’s ever happened.
It’s like, I’m like, I don’t ever wanna go back in the ocean
after that happens.
And they’re like, oh yeah, just a typical run that happens.
I’m like, what?
So there’s no way I could just put,
like even do that stuff, just like this,
I’ll stick to the pool, you know?
Like where I can see everything
and there’s no things trying to eat me.
And if I swallow like a thing,
a little water of chlorine, whatever,
so be it, but when your eyes are watering
from swallowing and coughing up,
seawater, that’s like the worst thing in the world.
So, yeah, they’re different animals,
I respect those people, but I can’t beat them, I don’t think.
Every summer, and I just thought,
“jaw’s a too young of an age, I think,

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00:59:49,240 –> 00:59:50,920
because I live on Cape Cod.”
Every summer, I say, this is a summer that I’m gonna swim.
Like I’m gonna go out in the morning,
I’m gonna swim.
But anytime I get further than like a hundred feet from shore,
I just see myself beginning eating by a shark.
It’s the only thing I can think about.
I cannot enjoy the moment whatsoever.
The only thing on my head is–
Something touches your head,
but you’re like, oh, there it is.
yeah.
Great white, 100%.
But it’s funny you said that because my first
and only stocked down was surfing, stocked down.
And I appreciate surfers.
I think it’s, I wish I could have that mindset
of let’s go out there and just have a good time.
And kind of like what TJ said,
it’s not this beautiful thing that people make it out to be.
It’s extremely hard and there’s lots of unromantic things about it.
But it is about the enjoyment of having the wave
and just being out there.
But we’re talking sunburns, nipple chafing,
potential for drowning, ocean predators,
bacterial-laden coral.
I mean, the coral is so bad that carlos has a bucket
with lemons for the inevitable coral scrapes
that people are gonna have.
Also great for deodorant, by the way, but go on.
Yeah, that’s true.
But they’re eventually gonna get,
like people are gonna get scraped by coral,
which is full of bacteria
and they’re gonna need the lemons to like sanitize it
or something, but the fact that it’s brought on board
just shows how ubiquitous this coral scraping things are.
I mean, I was talking about how I went surfing
in my Kiki Beach when I was 13
and that lasted an hour maybe.
The guy who taught me how to surf stepped on coral
and like his whole foot was cut open.
And that was in an hour and that’s on a beach
that’s very sandy and whatnot.
So yeah, what do we do in a four,
a 22nd throw ride?
I’m out, I’m out.
Sorry, it’s just not for me.
I did do the wake surfing like I said,
which is in a lake, no sharks,
and then I know.
What is that, Joss 3 when the shark was into the fresh water?
But,
I don’t think I got tough to jump.
You didn’t see Joss 3?
Bro, catch up.
yeah, so I respect the idea of surfing.
I’m glad people can do it.
It’s, I’m just too much of a pussy.
Sorry, that’s just me.
Yeah, vacation descriptions or just vacation in general,
I guess, knockout.
One of the things I think that I would sort of
paid him this compliment when we were interviewing him,
but that he did really well was just describing things
in the best light.
Every time he got a beer, handed a beer,
it wasn’t a beer, it was an ice cold beer.
There’s something about that description
that puts you there.
He mentioned it too, there were no hangovers.
The stuff that they were doing, if I woke up in the morning,
I would be, anxiety would be so high.
It’d be, I’d just be replaying the night being like,
“How many things I did wrong, all the stuff I suck at,

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01:02:50,520 –> 01:02:52,480
I’m terrible person, all those things.”
And he’s just like, “Let’s go back on the board.”
And I’m like, “Yeah, they’re on vacation, everything’s great.”
I’m like, “Shit, I wish I could,
the minds that they had, it was,
it was just amazing to put your mind there and experience that.”
That’s why I mentioned like, the first of the book to me,
they could have ended it, I had been like, great book.
There’s awesome.
Obviously the second half was like,
Crazy Thrilleride, which was great to be part of too.
But that whole first half and the experience
of like, what was going on, I thought it was great.
All of it sounds wonderful in my 20s.
I’m such a loser now that when they were talking
Maya, the person who sets up, I think her name is Maya,
who sets up the bonfire, when she says,
“Meet on the dock at 10.30,

1662
01:03:34,240 –> 01:03:36,280
the boat comes back at 3am.”
I was like, “I’m out. 10.30, that’s past.”
I mean, it thought it was like, “Will there be other trips at?”
‘Cause we’d be tired or like…
I was doing the Same thing.
I was like, “So now I have to go until 3.
Like I’m out there full of time.”
Yeah, I know, I’m getting old there,
and I definitely thought that.
yeah.
But yeah, the idea of drinking, surfing and then drinking all day
and then having bottles of wine at dinner
and then going on this bonfire,
so hot that you’re sweating through your clothes
and then taking a bunch of Molly
and then the next day being like, “Let’s go surfing.”
No way.
Anxiety levels would be through the roof.
The other thing he’d wrote was they were like,
on the boat waiting and they’re like, “Dan, he’s ways look six.”
And then he wrote like, “The collective stokes started rising.”
And I was like, “Oh, these shit, I’m in.”
yeah.
That’s your hype thing for the party guy.
yeah, exactly.
That would have been like, “Yeah, the stokes up?”
Yeah, let’s go then.
You’re all about the collective stoke.
Yeah, I’m all about that.
Good vibes, it’s a whole taste.
Because when he was saying to, he was like,
“Yeah, when you don’t get hangovers

1694
01:04:41,600 –> 01:04:43,000
when you’re doing that on vacation,

1695
01:04:43,000 –> 01:04:44,920
I was thinking about wedding weekends and things like that.

1696
01:04:44,920 –> 01:04:46,400
I’ve never been hungover for wedding

1697
01:04:46,400 –> 01:04:48,160
even though the night before I always drink heavily.”
It’s just like, you’d wake up,
you’re like, “Everyone’s in good mood
and your thoughts fucking go.”
It was having a night, you know?
What also helps ’cause you usually crack in a can
at like 9 a.m. during those things?
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Yeah, I was thinking about it ’cause the only thing
I have to that now is when my buddies go to,
buddies that I go to Ocean City in the summer
and it’s all my college buddies and, you know,
we’re up late and we’re drinking and all that stuff,
but the next day, you know, it’s breakfast
and we’re all sitting there jazzed about the day
and potentially opening up an ice cold can.
Did you have a stoke down?
Last one was just, I already kind of mentioned this
in the interview but relating to a character stoke down.
I mentioned like, I think I related a lot of ways to cold,
especially early on.
But then I mentioned on the interview,
I didn’t know if I wanted to pull this out
but I thought Teet is a good guy but yeah,
the with Kendall meeting her and being like,
having magical sex in the last 30 minutes,
yeah, I thought I had to bring that back up.
That’s what I thought you were going with when you were like,
oh, and you know, the one thing that’s fiction
and I was like, here we go.
Well, I had it in my notes but honestly,
this is how well I know you.
I knew you were gonna talk about it.
I knew that you were gonna talk about it.
Anyway, I thought you were gonna tell him
that he needs a better editor
because they wrote 30 minutes and not 30 seconds.
yeah, I think you mispronounced.
Yeah, I think you wrote 30 seconds
and your editor changed it to 30 minutes.
yeah, right, yeah, exactly.
Did you have a favorite storyline within “Carrot Away?”
Well, so first of all, I just wanna propose a,
we’ve read a bunch of books or at least I’ve seen a bunch of movies
of like human-verse environment stuff.
I don’t really like them very much.
yeah, unstoppable is one of your least favorite movies.
unstoppable is the one I always quote.
Quentin Tarantino’s “Top 10” somehow.
yeah.
how dare you besmirch?
But I just like, not a big fan of,
if the person can’t think,
if there’s no thinking involved, you know,
I don’t really like–
the bad guy you mean?
like the antagonist?
Yeah, if there’s like no antagonist,
you can’t think.
If it’s just like a wave, it’s like, all right.
But this is for a reason, painted the picture really well,
created the carrot, who else.
So that first half, I really think it was my favorite part
because it really did make it so I cared about the second half.
‘Cause usually the second half wouldn’t interest me.
And then the second half, I was locked in.
I was super anxious reading it, definitely in,
but I think what made it so good was that first half.
I mean, he addressed it too on the interview,
but that’s really what I liked the most about it,
’cause it made me like a type of book like this
that I would typically wouldn’t favor.
Yeah, let’s see.
I mean, my favorite part was them out to see.
And probably because it was set up so well in the first half,
but we know it’s coming.
He does the, I can’t remember what they call it,
but the, what is it?
It’s like in media res or whatever the case is,
when you kind of start with something that, you know,
pivotal that happens and then flash back
and kind of tell the story up until that point,
’cause the book opens with first wave hits,
and he’s like drowning pretty much, coal is,
and then we get back and tell the rest of the story.
So we’re kind of waiting till we get back there.
It’s a storytelling way that I feel like is,
be used good or bad in this case,
that I thought it was used really well,
similar to one of my favorite male gifts in movies,
Maverick, if you haven’t seen it,
check it out, great flick.
But with that, when we finally get back
to the wave situation, obviously the wave itself is crazy,
but then the guys surviving,
doing their own kind of like, it’s a little bit of everything,
really, it’s open water, it’s jaws, it’s the K,
it’s so much going on and you really care
about what happens to the characters to the point,
and he was talking about whether, you know,
it was for him gonna live or is for him gonna die,
and how he was dealing with that in his own mind.
You can almost tell when you’re reading it
that that’s where his mind was,
’cause I didn’t know, I honestly didn’t know,
he was for him gonna live, he was for him gonna die,
because it seemed like he was in a really bad spot,
and you could go either way with it.
So it kinda kept me on the edge of my seat, I was all in.
So I loved the out-to-see portion,
pretty much up until they get saved,
not that I didn’t like those things,
but that was definitely my favorite part of it.
Yeah, I liked that Fern didn’t die or anything,
I actually thought it was,
I think it would’ve been pretty depressing if it’s like,
all right, you know, it was already enough depression
around everything with like the island getting
out of the state and showing their tons of other people,
but the four boys had a how to stay alive,
you know, and the girls, which we appreciate it as well.
yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about postsurvival
coitus, is that the best of the,
is that the best coitus?
you think they got some before they let that come?
Absolutely, what?
They were in after they got released from the hospital,
they were in a hostel with the girls
for like a week waiting for Fern to recover.
Yeah, you’re point.
You wanted that, you wanted it to some insight
into that as we were saying.
Yeah, I mean, he could write a whole book too,
that’s just that week, you know?
yeah.
carried away next.
That’s not to see a good pass round there.
That was, you didn’t need the drugs at any time.
I was about to say that Book would be called
Carried Away and Ecstasy.
That was what the book would be called.
Yeah, so yeah, I’m sure they were getting down,
plus kind of was so jazz that he was alive,
and the amount that he cared that they were alive,
she would’ve been loving that, you know?
yeah.
how were you concerned about us when you guys are dying?
Yeah, that’s right, that’s right.
yeah.
yeah.
what about character?
Would you figure a character best character, probably?
I think one that one on the radar was Hunter.
She’s kind of third-weiling it the whole time
with like Fern and Logan who, by all accounts,
and it’d be fair, I’m kind of like the Fern and Logan
where I just be debating someone all trip, you know?
Doing that stuff, so I was like,
“That’s kind of what I’m doing,

1860
01:10:40,280 –> 01:10:42,400
but if I’m good or a girl would absolutely hate me”
if she had her hangout with me the whole time.
So the fact that she could kind of just stuck with them
and was like, “Whatever, no big deal.”
And, you know, hangout with them?
I was like, “That’s good for her.”
I was really impressive.
Also, she’s not romantically involved as far as I know
with any of them.
There might have been like some cuddling or something going on,
but– – She was on the couch with Logan, right?
yeah, but then like fern gets picked up
or whatever, they’re getting airlifted,
and she’s like playing doctor or medic for him.
I was like, “That’s a big ask for someone
that I met three days ago.
I’m not really, it’s different with Cole and Kendall,
they’re like basically soulmates immediately.
Like she’s just like, “This is a random dude.”
And I’m like now having to like feed water too and stuff
and they’re like, “Yeah.”
So, she really was a team player.
it could have gone a whole different way.
She’s, you know, she’s the younger sister to Karissa.
Karissa invites her.
She’s like, “Oh, Kendall and I are going on this like,
“trip-tint in Nisha.

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01:11:32,640 –> 01:11:33,480
We’re gonna go surfing.”
It’s gonna be a great time.
She’s like, “Okay, cool.
“Thanks, big sis.

1892
01:11:36,480 –> 01:11:37,560
I’m all in.”””
And you get there and they immediately both split off
with the two guys, and then you’re stuck
with Bert Nerny, who are just, you know,
yelling at each other the whole time and shitting at each other.
And she’s, she’s, she’s fine with it.
The other side is she could have just been pissy
and been mad that the other girls were hanging out
with the guys or whatever the case was,
but no, she’s, she’s all in for the team.
She’s not like a team player.
Yeah, I’m a, I’m a big fan of her.
great on base, pretty much.
She’s got enough love.
yeah.
yeah, yeah, yeah.
what about you?
I don’t know.
I don’t know, I just, I don’t want to just
necessarily say best character or whatnot,
but I feel bad for Fern.
I just want to put it out there.
I feel bad for the guy.
Outside of the whole got a compound factor
in life hanging in the balance aspect,
no one respects him, no one respects him,
no one takes him seriously.
I’m mostly thinking about when he’s trying to get
on Carlos’s boat and there’s no ladder.
I was thinking of that, right?
And there’s no ladder.
I’m a hundred percent on his side that way.
yeah.
It’s like, one, yes, he was kind of a dick about it,
being like, you don’t have a dick.
He wasn’t dick, he didn’t need to do that.
yeah, but he was on the Right.
Get a fucking ladder.
What’s going on here?
have you done that before by the way?
I’ve been in the ocean like after doing something
like strenuous and trying to be like,
it’s super tired and trying to get back on a boat is so hard.
Yeah, you definitely need a ladder.
Like, what are we doing here?
Or someone to help pull them up at least, right?
Be a team player.
They’re all just laughing at him as you struggle.
yeah, I felt bad.
And like I’ve done that on, usually it’s on the lake
and I’m trying to get back on the boat and I’ll be like,
I’m not gonna use a ladder and I try to lift myself
on the front or whatever.
It’s hard and it hurts.
Like it’s a painful endeavor.
So they just keep watching them flounder
and they’re having a laugh at him pretty much.
He finally gets on the boat and then they just exhaust
and just blow it in his face from the motor.
Then just once again, he’s like, can we just get going?
I don’t want this exhaust in my face.
They’re like, oh, fern, be in fern.
It’s like get the thing moving.
Then he’s puking and no one’s being like, hey, my guy,
how you doing?
All right, can I rub you back?
Can I pull your hair back?
yeah, yeah.
Turn it over, what can I do for ya?
There’s like, ah, ferns puking, what a loser.
Give the guy a break, you know?
And he ends up scoring them all the drugs.
Good guy, I’m sure there were some backslaps
going on appreciating that.
But I’m kind of talking about it with TJ,
but our boy has a drug problem, you know?
People gotta start, yeah, he’ll help you score,
but at the same time, you gotta,
you gotta tell your guy that, you know,
he’s gotta check himself because he’s on a slippery slope
and he’s gonna, he’s riding the wave right now,
but he could go crashing into Coral
and people gotta know that.
It’s a case in here, don’t want to bring people down, come on.
No, but you save, like, we need a line in there
cold being like, when we get back,
I’m gonna talk to fern about it.
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I like it.
what about love hate?
Would you love a buck here anyway?
I like the journal format.
I’ve always bring up this book,
but I don’t know if I remember it at all,
but I remember when in high school,
I’d never really liked reading
and then I read the book called The Beach,
until I read obviously.
Wait, is it Harry Potter?
is it the one in Vince Wayne?
The Beach is– – They made a movie of it.
Yeah, it’s the Leonardo Capriot movie?
yeah, was I read that in high school
and I really, really liked it.
And I was like, oh, it’s a famous book,
but it’s kind of like a unknown book,
but it’s written by Alex Garland,
the guy that’s like the famous movie director.
Oh, so, how do I
Yeah, it had that same vibe,
basically the plot of that.
I mean, the Leonardo Capriot,
I’ve never seen the movie, but there was a movie on it,
but basically it was fine.
Like, oh, okay, I think I go to Thailand
and they find like a paradise,
in their baseline vacation, but it’s utopia.
Anyways, so yeah, no, I just thought like the whole vibe,
the first person journal format,
kind of almost vibe,
but it’s really resonated with us, that was really good.
What about you?
Yeah, it’s funny to say that because
the first part of this book,
when they’re enjoying the island
or why not having a good time,
it’s, everything’s kind of coded with the Vaseline lens,
it’s just so perfect.
Like, it’s almost too perfect, right?
They’re, like you said, with the beer,
and that almost, that reminded me of Leo in the beach
when they finally get to the beach or whatever the case is,
and it’s this, like, kind of like this hippie,
mecca, this commune that they’ve created on this beach,
but everything is idealistic, you know,
there’s just, it’s beautiful.
Everything’s, I don’t know.
You said don’t watch the movie?
I don’t know, I mean, I don’t remember it a ton,
but then it starts getting into, like, drugs,
and there’s, you know, shooting,
and it becomes like an action movie,
and then there’s a shark, I don’t know,
but it did remind me of how awesome that was,
but that awesomeness of the book then
completely turns on its head when we get the wave,
which was great.
For me, I love in the first part, you know,
the kind of like the transformative
and relaxing aspects of time spent in nature,
it’s something that anyone that has done something outside
and enjoyed can relate to, which this book,
like, kind of, TJ was talking about how it brings
the reader there in their own way, you know,
I was talking about my time at the Grand Canyon,
or any time I go on, like, a big ski trip,
and at some point you just kind of like,
sit at the top of the mountain,
you’re like, this is breathtaking,
like this is beautiful, and we get to ski it, you know,
while you’re cracking a beer that you pulled out
of your backpack, it’s just, those things
have a transformative nature on yourself,
and it’s kind of like the reason why we slog
through everything else.
I mean, even sometimes I just go down to the beach
down the street and just look out,
and be like, this is pretty cool.
So he brought that back in me, yeah, I love that.
And it was a pretty good writing job
on the characters for the drug part.
I think that sometimes that can go really bad.
They tend to be over the top when characters are on drugs
in books and movies, oh, it’s like leprechauns,
dancing on rainbows kind of thing,
but this felt real.
Like, it felt like the TJ done a little bit of this
in the day because he knew what it was like, you know,
and I’m not, hey, I’m not yucking anyone’s yum,
because you know, why not pass the buck over here coach?
But, yeah.
is that the same?
Pass the buck over here coach?
Yeah, like, you know, if someone’s like cracks a beer
and you also want a beer, like,
Hey, bucko, Pass that over here?
Pass the buck over here.
Or, yeah, pass the doobie around.
Pass the buck over here.
So, yeah, I thought he’d have really–
A buck’s not as a beer.
the buck, not buck, the buck.
yeah, yeah.
But I thought he’d just the writing aspect
of the drinking and partying was realistic.
It wasn’t over the top and not imaginable.
Yeah, I’ll say it.
I know this is gonna be sacrilegious,
but I mean, I already talked about,
I don’t really like people versus animals thing,
but I thought this was way better than Jurassic Park.
I thought Jurassic Park’s such a better place.
I think we’re talking about the movie, right?
I know, the buck we read.
No, but he went on our conversation with him, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The movie, I mean, the reason I would probably,
I didn’t like the book as much as I’ve already seen the movie,
so I kind of knew I could already be like,
well, I’ve already seen this,
and then I didn’t think the characters were good.
So, but I thought, like, for a book that’s in a similar vein
in sense of people versus environment or animals
or whatever, it was, I thought it was just much easier
to read, much more fun to be a part of.
Wow, you are putting Michael Critan on blast.
How dare you?
that made Michael Critan, maybe the second buck was better.
I don’t know.
Lost World, never read it.
But, yeah, I’m on record, Jurassic Park, wonderful book.
Go back and listen to that episode if you want.
Love characters were well-written and relatable.
We kind of talked about this ad nauseam,
so I’m not gonna, you know, go through it,
but he wrote characters really well.
For a guy that hasn’t written a book before,
honestly, in a little blown away.
Super talented.
And then he’s like, oh, I did all the illustrations
that are in the journal and took pictures
of hot babes on the beach that I keep on my hard drive.
Yeah.
Listen, let’s not yuck anyone’s y’all about that either.
We all have been there.
yeah, I was like, what else is on the hard drive, TJ?
So, yeah, I just thought he did an amazing job, honestly.
Really good.
yeah, for sure.
Any of the loves for you?
No, I think, compared to Jurassic Park,
it’d be better as a,
Yeah, that’s pretty good.
Let’s bring it up.
yeah.
what about Hades, you got any?
I thought my boy, Kavi, kind of sucked the second half.
When shit started getting tough, he kind of started
being a quitter, which I didn’t love.
He was kind of a sour pus, especially for a guy.
If you were a band-in all the time,
you got to be a complete gamer.
You can’t be that guy.
Like, you know the Red Bandana guy from 9/11,
like that historic story.
yeah, the BCing story.
are you going to BC?
Yeah, like bro, you can’t be wearing a bandana
and then the shit hits the fan.
And you’re the first guy that’s like, this sucks.
No, you got to be like, cold, like, took charge,
but you got to be that guy.
Like, come on, right?
Yeah, I think that’s fair.
You had to let that
I also got to let that
You had to let that
yeah, because I liked his character the First half.
He was kind of like, go with the flow.
He was like, you know, man, just, it’s a vacation.
Don’t worry about it.
I’m like, that’s kind of guy you need your crew.
That’s just not, like, that’s, he was kind of
going to give him a cold hard time, but he wasn’t.
He was like, oh, he’s like, oh, I can see him being like,
anxious, let me like, pick him up a little bit.
Like, he’s like, he’s the guy that I thought was going
to be the pick everyone up guy.
But then the shit hits the fan and he’s like, yeah,
this does suck.
And it’s like, all right, well, yeah, well, I agree with you.
I agree with you.
I also think one of the other things that maybe
it goes into the love category is that it was the first
to hate for me because Cole went to, into, like,
save your mode and was so pragmatic about what they needed
to do to survive that I almost felt, like,
it was hard to believe that someone who had just experienced
this terrible event and is also injured
and is now cast out to see, wouldn’t have a moment of just
breaking down or whatever the case is.
But then he does.
And he’s like, when the sharks on the water, he’s slapping the water,
freaking out.
And then other guys have to pull him back and be like,
hey, get it together.
Do you want to live?
Do you want to see your family?
Do you want to bank handle again?
Do you want the best 30 minutes in your life?
Then get your shit together because they’re sharks in the water.
So I like that he had that to him.
But otherwise for hates, none for me, none for me.
I was thoroughly impressed.
Yeah.
I mean, I think sure, Kavi might have had his own issues
and Furn and Logan at times get blended into one character.
But that’s just because there’s just not enough time.
This book is 400 pages.
It doesn’t read 400 pages.
I flew through it and we’re mostly audiobook people.
The fact that I flew through this reading analog was a testament to how good it was.
And you can’t just totally have fully fleshed out characters that get as much time
when they’re not even necessarily the leads.
So that was really my only thing was sometimes those characters almost blended together.
But that’s kind of the point that they are almost done.
So the guy that when they’re driving in the boat to get to the island,
like I was like, yeah, some person has died here.
I was like, Jesus, bro.
I have a little vacation etiquette.
Never really.
Oh, yeah.
Just getting to the island and he’s like, so here are the rules.
Like, it is going to be a great time.
Like, we’re going to boats out here.
You can take in the morning and then he’s like, last thing, don’t go in the water at night.
I put someone died here recently.
That’s it.
Have a go to one.
You got to sandwich that in, though.
Yeah.
Word a little differently and put that in the middle of their speech, not the end when
they’re about to get off the boat.
Come on.
The water is amazing between the hours of 8 a.m.
And 8 p.m.
After that, you know?
Like I died and then things were terrible for a long time here.
It’s like, okay, have a good one.
See ya.
Keith, carried away.
TJ Derry, new book.
Would you recommend it?
For sure.
Yeah.
How many buddies do you give it?
Zero out of five?
Yeah.
I will give it a 4.25.
I think this was, basically as high as the good policy B for this type of boat.
I told you, like, this isn’t usually my genre, but this was as fun of a read that you
can pause what we have in this genre for me.
Does any, I’ll say it again, far, far superior than Jurassic Park.
So yeah, I liked it.
I would read it all day.
Yeah, I think 4.25, 4.5 is for me too.
I think it’s, it was really good.
You know, we’ve done this with other books that we were like, okay, it was whatever, you
know?
You can tell that this is the first book they’ve ever written.
And who am I to judge?
I have no talent.
Oh yeah, I can really put a sentence together.
But at the same time, it was like, I was so impressed by this book.
I thought it was great.
Talk about a B-treat.
I mean, it’s, it’s like a B-treat, but it’s also not because you’re kind of scared to go
on the water afterwards.
But a total page turner.
Like this is going on my bookcase.
And if someone comes in my house, I was like, oh, what’s a book that I should read, you
know, my stepdad or something like that, come and buy it.
Just spend a week.
I’d be like, hey, I’ll pull this one.
I’ll be like, hey, he’d like this one.
Yeah, for sure.
I want to thank TJ.
Thanks for coming on.
It’s great conversation.
Yeah.
Keith, what are you coming to next?
Well, if many, I think we are scheduled to do that next by, well, if many by James Insingleton,
Islington, so that will be next.
And then we might do the second one as well right after.
So if you’re in the market, get on it.
Yeah.
And let me know what you find in Hudson News on your, on your trip to Hawaii.
Yeah, we’ll do.
Because I’m interested in what you pick out.
Well, I’m just going to check the race with this one.
That’s all I wanted to see what you want.
Yeah, which is what she’s recommended to race something.
If Bruce with the spoon comes in right and we get the stamp of Bruce with the spoon book
hub on carried away, I’ll be back.
I’ll be back.
I’ll be back.
There it is.
We’ll send up threatening what note to her.
It doesn’t be threatening.
Tertiary, Tertiary worded, please.
Ultimately, don’t you either do this or we keep pounding the cement?
Pounding the pavement?
Yeah, pounding the buck, if you will.
Buck?
Pass the buck.
Oh, you’re saying buck?
Oh, he said buck.
Oh, I think we’re like the buck stars with me.
Like, what?
Pass the buck here?
I was like, I was like the deer?
What are you talking about?
Pass the buck over here, coach.
Oh, so you’re getting the Canadian?
You were just bringing out your Canadians side.
I see.
All right.
Well, that was fun.
Glad we did it.
Thanks again to DJ.
We’ll catch you for Willemany.
All right.
All right.
Bye now.
Bye now.