Mistborn: Final Empire (Part 3-Finish) – Brandon Sanderson – Episode 29
The Buddies flare all of their metals and burn through the second half of Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn: Final Empire. They chat about the benefits of reading, debating, religion, and of course face tattoos. The deep discussion also had the Buddies drawing parallels between the book and Forrest Gump/Jenny’s relationship, discussing the science behind being a eunuch, and reconsidering Bugs Bunny’s motivational tactics. We welcome Buddies, Mistborns, Feruchemists, Eunuchs, and everyone else to listen in as we discuss the second half of this epic.
Intro: (0:00-1:29)
Stock Up/Down (1:30-22:44)
Favorite Scene (22:45-27:06)
Love/Hate (27:07-40:54)
Audit/Questions (40:55-47:03)
Casting the Movie (47:04-51:01)
Reader Email (51:02-52:29)
Conclusion (52:30-56:38)
Next Book: LORD OF THE FLIES by: WILLIAM GOLDING
Transcript for SEO Purposes 🙂
All right. Welcome to Book Club. I’m Dylan here with the high prelude of the pod. Keith, what’s up, you Maladroit? Deutsche sob. Please bring up some. I don’t know. You didn’t notice how Brandon Sanderson used Maladroit. Goddamn, I can’t say it. Maladroit, like seven times in the book. No, let me use my Latin here. Mallow means bad. Nice, good job. Droid means like, Star Wars. Droid. Bad robot. Bad robot. Exactly. Just like the production company. No, it’s like clumsy, I think. But he kept saying maladoitrus, this, that and the other thing, and it wouldn’t be a big deal. I wouldn’t notice someone using words if it wasn’t something as absurd. Either way, we’re breaking down some best sellers. In this week, we’ll discuss Miss Born, The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson, first novel of the Miss Born trilogy. But our second podcast on the book. If you miss part one, you can find it where you found this one. So give it a download. And while you’re at it, click and subscribe. Click that subscribe button right there. If you want to be part of Listener Mail, manipulate your metacarpals and head them over to Buddybookall.com. Drop us a line. We got reader mail coming in from all places of the world. Yes, we’re getting it physically sent to my house. Really? Keep those stamps. There might be some fun stamps, like Cesar Chavez on them. Let’s get into Ms. Born part two. We’re going to jump right in with stock up. Stock down. So, Keith, start us off with your first. Stock up. Yes, stock up. Reading and debating. Alan and Vin end up falling in love with each other. Right. And this is after three meetings. Those meetings can best be summarized as one, Ellen reads in the corner and ignores Ben. That was our first meeting. Two, Ellen comes to Vin’s table and reads. And three, Vin confronts Ellen about ignoring her. And then they debate, like, ethical, like stuff around the sky and she cries and stuff like that. And then they fall in love. That’s the three meetings. So know what that breeding and debating is like? That’s like the Buddy Book Club. So basically, we formed a lovely relationship to you, man, and all of our buddies out there. We’re just a big group of people that love each other and reading and debating, and that’s what we do and stock up for that. And yeah, I just thought that was beautiful. I think what you’re saying is the next time we see each other, we’re going to hook up or something. Well, you’re going to be saved. Hopefully you’re going to come to my defense or hook up either one. Which one saved the other one? Because they both kind of saved each other. Yeah, exactly. Wow. That’s deep, man. Not physically. You mean like mentally and emotionally? Both, actually. Yeah, exactly. In several meetings. I can dig it. Although I think there is a period of the book where they skip a few months because Valette has been a K. Vin has been going to a bunch of balls. So I think it’s to be assumed that throughout those balls, she’d, like, seen Ellen and chatted with him. I thought he was ignoring her and stuff during that whole period. She was like, oh, I haven’t seen him. Or he’s like, kind of been. Yeah, Aloof, I think so. But at the same time, you’re still like, stop and chat, right? You got a curb enthusiast to stop and chat fair. Yeah. My first stock up is face tattoos. So if you get one in this world, there’s no way you’re getting a government job. It’s just 0% chance. I think that’s going to change soon. There’s too many coming out these days. Maybe not government job, but regular jobs. I think it’s just going to be whatever. Well, regular jobs. I can understand a tasteful Eagle on your neck that is wings tied up to your face. Is a neck tattoo the same as a face tattoo? No, I think it’s okay. You can have a subtle neck tattoo, like a behind your hairline while girls have that. Oh, sure. I’m in more of a front neck. Yeah. Front neck. Like the lips on the neck. That one’s great. You’re also thinking about basketball players, right? Because I was thinking about the game on the nets. Yeah, because I’m thinking about the big white guy who had, like, the huge neck tattoo, like his full neck. Oh, Birdman. Yeah, Birdman. We’re not talking sports, though. That guy is still not going to get a government job either way. My point stock up face tattoos is because all the obligators have face tattoos and they quite literally run the country. And the best part is, even after spoiler alert, if you’ve gotten this far and you don’t know that spoilers are coming, then turn it off. Now go read the book. Come back. But even after the Lord rulers overthrown the Scott and high born alike are like, now, we still need the obligators. Like, they’re the best bureaucrats. We’re going to need them anyways. And I really think they said that just because in their culture, it’s like these guys got face tattoos, so they’re ready for this. They’re prepared. So maybe face tattoos are going to take a turn in this culture. I don’t think you’re wrong. We do need a new world order of bureaucrats in this country. Maybe we start looking to the tattoo parlor, see who comes out with face tattoos, and just say you’re already pre qualified. We honestly can’t get much worse, so. Yeah, you’re not. I’m just glad you support me. It’s important. I’m getting a face tattoo in your honor. Yes. Thank you. It’s got to be around the eyes and like that. I also think what’s his name is a cool dude. Post Malone. Okay. Oh, sure. He’s got face tattoos. I saw him in 22 Savage. 21 Savage. One of the Savages. Wait, there’s multiple. I don’t know. Whatever. 21 Savage is absolutely terrible. But Post Malone came on and I was like, this is going to be awful, too. But he went up there, he could play guitar. He can actually sing. He can rap. I was like, oh, this dude’s actually pretty good. Face tattoos. Stock up also. I agree. I like how your first qualifier was like, he can play guitar. Well, he went up there and played Nirvana or someone or I forget what it was. Maybe like Pearl Jam and it was like, oh, shit. He’s like, playing a good rock song right now. It wasn’t just a dude that doesn’t have a ton of musical talent. He could clearly play music. Sure. He goes up there, wraps a song you’re like, okay, that’s totally understood. Next thing you know, he’s like, hey, anyone ready for Wonderwall? And you’re like, Whoa. What exactly? Okay, what else do you ever stock up? Hair of the dog. Stock up. After running for 16 straight hours, then and Kelsey are on pewter. Yeah. Pewter burning or what do they call it? Puner Lag. Peter Drag. Peter Drag. Peter Drag. Yeah. They basically have the worst hangover of all time. Just headaches for days. Tired of shit. This has been specifically because Kelsey is a champion. Used to just getting hammered, aka doing a lot of pewter. It sounds awful. But in the morning, she orders an ale at nine in the morning, and they’re like, Whoa, that’s a little early. But she’s like, I just got to do something. And it sounds like right after that, I guess they go to the square and they see people get killed right after that. But she doesn’t complain about it ever again. After that, you burn a little pewter. I have a little hair of the dog, a little hail. That solves the problem. And it sounds like that works. That’s what I’m hearing. So hair the dog is already a big stock up. But have yourself a little ale. Have yourself a pewter. Have little. Maybe a Bloody Mary. A little up and down. Oh, yes. Half champagne, half coffee. Yeah. I was actually wondering, from that day to Joseph six, is it hot coffee in champagne or are you drinking, like, cold iced coffee and champagne? Hot coffee just doesn’t make a ton of sense. A listener of the pod asked me, and they’re like, wait, people actually drink up and downs? That sounds disgusting. I was like, yeah, I I know. Don’t know. I think it has to be one glass of each next to each other. You don’t mix them? No, it’s mixed. That’s why it’s called an up and down. I think. I don’t think that iced coffee was a thing until the 90s. Right. I don’t think it was even a thing. Yeah. We have to ask Tucker, our guest, what he did when he recreated it. Billy done. We got to bring him down. We got to bring Billy Dunn back in the studio. Interesting. My next stock up is religion. So it’s kind of the conservative movement is pushing back. Like we need more religion back in our school systems and in our lives. And I feel like more often than not, people are pushing away from technology, science. These things are pushing people away from religion. I mean, both of us grew up in semi religious households. We were meta Knights or something. But I was an altar boy.
Participant #1:
Yeah, enough. So I’m good was God’s name. Pastor James. I first tried to be an altar boy, and I was just annoyed. I think there was like, too many girls doing this priest doesn’t give you enough attention. Yes, probably. And then I did it when I was probably like 14 because it was good for a high school resume builder or whatever. And one of the priests grabbed my wrist and told me I was doing something wrong. And I was like, don’t ever fucking touch me again. And then he was like, oh, this guy is a biter. I’m not going to come back and talk about it again. Groom you. Oh, wow. But yeah, religion, because in this book, it makes a good point about religions and how they’re started and whatnot. And just the idea tells you the whole time, which is a great aspect of this book, that he’s pretty much the whole time Heunes saves that are like talking bedtime stories about different religions and you’re not really thinking about it. It’s just, oh, this is a way that Brandon Sanders can expand on the world and explain different religions that have happened throughout the history because the terrorists hold on to these memories and whatnot. But then only at the end do you realize that Kelsey is trying to create his own religion type of thing with the sky with the purpose of creating a fire in their belly and making them overcome this fear they have of the Lord ruler. Just, hey, if you can supplant this guy with another Messiah type figure, then we might be able to actually win this thing. And I like that idea. It’s like Jesus, but without all of the hateful stuff that people have turned it into today. It’s like, okay, there’s just this guy who came around and sacrificed his life. I understand how Christianity got founded around that, if that’s actually the case. And that’s pretty much what Kelsey was going for. And it worked. It worked. Then all of a sudden he had profits in the street. I mean, it has a lot of Dune type corollaries where then all of a sudden these Apostles or whatever come out, tell everyone else that he’s got, and they’re like, yeah, okay, that guy must be God. But I found it to be quite interesting and actually put religion in a more tangible perspective. I think also most religions are derived from a place of good, and then they become something else. That’s just how it works. Yeah. And then you get Waco, Texas, like, oh, God gave us guns, and all of your wives are now mine. You ever watched that show with Timmy? Yeah, Timmy Rigging. They made it so you understood why someone would follow him. Because he was a super charismatic guy. Yeah, charismatic. Really smart. Because they had people they’re like MIT or Harvard type educated people that were following him. And you’re like, how the hell that ever happened? He probably had some sort of photographing memory. Yeah, he memorized the Bible. That’s insane. And then he was able to show his own interpretations to that. They were so perplexed. They were like, oh, my God, have sex with my wife. I also bet there’s a lot of drug use going on. And that was like, I don’t think so. No, that wasn’t allowed. No drinking, drugs, or anything. They probably put some stuff in the punch. Different culture. Jump into stock down, baby, stock down, being the loyal eunuch or just replace unit with anything. Friend, person, anything. No, let’s keep unit. Okay. But I don’t know if there’s much that’s I don’t think he’s being sold on the S MP 500 or the Dow Jones, the Nasaq. But at the end of the book, Allen comes with a few of his guards and frankly, just makes a pretty poor attempt to save him. He was never. I loved it. I loved it. He wasn’t going to do shit. He runs any event. Yeah. If she wasn’t out, he was never seeing her. She would just be deadly on the floor, buddy. It was like the three ninjas trying to save their grandfather. Okay, these guys had no business. We’re talking Tom, Tom, Rocky, Colt. Yeah, they were trained, but they’re children. They had no business beating up on some ninjas, and they still went in there and did it. So I get what Ellen was thinking. He might have seen the movie, but she sees him fighting, and she turns to him and says, you came back for me. No one has ever come back. No one, mind you, who’s sitting right next to her. Season. Season is literally standing right there. The guy that two minutes earlier broke you out of a jail. And then before that, saved your life in front of two steel inquisitors he fought off for you, which is, like, unheard of. But yes, he gets himself captured. First of all, he gets himself captured. They could just kill them. Yeah, who knows? They had no idea. He doesn’t know what a slap in the face. And my guys say that I was like, what the hell? Then? It’s funny you said that, because I thought about that, too when I was reading that part. And I was like, if there’s any part of this book that’s a meme, it’s this right now. Like, Herbie, I don’t know what meme it is, but just save his face as he’s a withered person because he doesn’t have any strength anymore for saving her for the second time. Yes. And it’s just like, what? I don’t need all the loving, but a little appreciation can go a long way. Also weird about that scene was when they explained the unique situation, like the physical situation, and she was like, where his twig and berries should be with just a scar. I always was under the interpretation that Unix were like castrated, but they still had pin us. Yeah, it’s a good question because otherwise, if you just have a scar, you don’t have a year retro. Like you need to pee out of something. Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, it was a throwaway thing, but it had me spinning. You cut your balls off dogs. They do it to dogs and they still hump things. So how does that work? Yeah, well, I think they just do that. That’s like a dominant thing. It’s not a sexual thing, but they also get erections. Yes, but it’s not like watching dog porn or something. It’s usually just wait, what’s that like DMA? Well, I mean, I put it on for my dog just to see what happens. It’s Paw patrol. That’s what I put on paw patrol. Okay. I just don’t understand the science. I like how you read 25 hours of book and you’re like, So what’s up with the digging balls? That’s my biggest question. Oh, I thought you spent 25 hours on something or 650 pages. You might as well be pretty specific at what’s being chopped off because it just doesn’t make sense that, well, when you watch The Unicorn tonight, get back to us. Let us know. Good God. Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. That’s not in the book. Not Canon stockdown for me. It’s your boy Eden. All right, you on this podcast. It is in the ether. It’s on radio waves throughout the universe for history. You said Yiden was your boy. You were talking this guy up. Oh, he knows what’s going on. He’s a fucking kid. Oh, my fake news left and right here. I was like, wait, is he saying the name wrong? What is he talking about? No, you like you were all about. Yeah, he was my guy. And he goes all Leroy Jenkins with Kelsey’s Army. The second he gets in his hands from him, just decides to, oh, let’s go fuck up some Garrison somewhere. What, like you have an actual plan here? You’re not the mastermind. You’re peace. You don’t have a pawn, all right? You’re a Rook. Just be happy being a Rook, okay? Instead, he’s trying to be the Queen and he turns out dead. So he gets himself killed as long as the rest of the army almost screws up the entire plan. Which is fascinating considering that Kelsey are at the end. I mean, we might get into this, but his plan is like a plan within a plan within a plan. And Eden almost takes it all down by just deciding out of nowhere. That okay. Kelsey said. I’m a general. I’m going to go tax something even though there’s this huge plan. And it didn’t really make sense because earlier on he was talking about Scott lives, like how much Scott lives matter. And he was scared that the crew was just going to sacrifice all these scaffold to get the ATM and whatever. And then he just goes and does it on his own because he’s got a little bravado. It didn’t make a lot of sense to me. And also Eden like, total doink. Keith. I don’t know why you supported him in the first place. It would have made more sense if it was Eden was like kind of a Jock sniffer for him initially. I haven’t heard that term in a very long time. I was trying to think of the term brownnoser. Yes. I like, Jacksonville is Brown Noser just mean you stick on your nose in someone’s ass. Yeah, that’s kind of a common phrase. That’s a weird phrase to just be like, oh, yeah, this guy is fucking put his nose in this dude’s ass. It’s the charmelian to Charmander for butt kisser. So like, butt kisser would be the Charmander. And then the charmelian is there’s nothing wrong with butt kisser. Well, then your Brown knows it the next step. I don’t know what the third step is. I can surmise it. I called my boy. You didn’t care. I called him. Yeah. What else you got for stock down? I mean, this stock is going to be directly correlated to that, but Stock down Michael Jordan’s secret stuff. Have you seen the movie Space Jam? I have. Do you know the water bottle? Yes. So that’s called Michael Jordan’s secret stuff. So what basically happens in Space Jam? The epic film. We’re not talking about the sequel. I refuse to watch Canon, not Cannon. No. They’re all kind of down in the dumps. Don’t have the confidence. And Bugs Bunny, the brilliant Bugs Bunny, finds Michael Jordan’s water bottle puts this is Michael Jordan’s secrets of. This is why he’s such a good player and starts handing it out to the team and like, this is the stuff that’s going to make us better. That’s what Kelsey did. He basically went and was like, hey guys, if you’re with me, we’re going to have 11th medal. We’re going to have all this shit. Like, I’m going to fight with you. You’ll have powers if you just fight with me. Everyone’s all amped up. And that’s the reason they just thought they drink Michael Jordan’s secret stuff. And they were about to fucking take down the Goon squad. And it turns out they got their shit pushed in and they got slaughtered. So Stock down Michael Jordan’s secret stuff. Did you shit pushed in there too? You throw in training day references up. Wow, I’m blocking out the same thing. I don’t know what’s going on now. You went from training day to space jam. This is good. This is good. On Sequitur. I like it. I feel like there’s another maybe it’s like a Harry Potter thing or something along those lines. Well, it’s definitely a Matilda, but where someone uses their powers to influence another person in a scene and no one else knows what’s going on. So I don’t know if it’s choppy or not, but I liked it. It’s an interesting way to rile up a crowd to be like, oh, like this guy’s sapping some of my powers or whatnot. And it also shows within the universe itself, which I really like is how unknown a lot of this stuff is. So not only does the sky really not know what missing powers are, like, missborne powers, but even within the missing and miss born themselves, there’s these things that they just say that, oh, that’s the case. Like, there’s ten metals. And then it’s like, oh, wait, no, there’s more metals. Or when Kelsey didn’t think that anyone Besides the Lord ruler or whatnot could see through a copper cloud and Vin was like, no, I can do it. It’s fun that Brendan Centerson built this world and these boundaries, but then is constantly expanding upon their abilities. It’s fun because I feel like Star Wars didn’t really do this until the new ones. Also not Canon. Yeah, not Canon. But as far as it went, was like, the 6th can be Nikola Tesla and use electric stuff. It’s like, outside of that, then the non Canon ones are like, oh, the Asset can also clone everything and make a full army in this weird other part of the Galaxy that no one can see. Yeah. So I really did enjoy that, because even after reading this book, it’s like, okay, there’s more. There’s definitely more that we don’t even know that hasn’t been disclosed in terms of not only aluminum, but the rest of it with the missing kind of Changeling things and who knows what the terrorist men stuff is? I can’t remember that magic is called ferrochemist. Cool. I just kind of liked all that stuff. What else did you have for stockdown? Yeah, last one for me. Bling. Bling. Stock down. Wait, from Bumfights. Bling. Bling. No, I don’t know. That’s the little Wain line that he invented back in the day because Bling. Bling. Was a character in Bum fights who kept his crack pipe in his collar. Okay, a little different and referred to himself as a third person. I could have gone sat down, Frost yourself. Aka, I was a guy in ten days having top five rom.com. Jesus titty fucking Christ. Anyway, stock down. So wearing, like, metals, jewelry, any of that stuff watches. It’s the cool thing to do in our civilization and in this civilization, but it makes no fucking sense. Why would you ever wear it when people like Ms. Borns and Al Manson can just use it against you. Imagine doing that. It doesn’t make any sense. And that’s why I don’t wear much jewelry, because I’m just on the lookout. You’re waiting for someone to steal push you or steal push, you got to stay clean. You got to keep the watches off. I guess. I have a phone in my pocket, though. You take the Prince Albert out anytime you leave the house? No, it’s in my body. So it doesn’t count. No. There are Lords that’s like your Lord ruler. Lord ruler armbands. Yeah, exactly. It’s in. That’s how I keep the memory. And it’s strong. It grows in strength, if you know what I mean.
Participant #1:
Yes, and I did enjoy that aspect of it, too, in terms of they said the Lord really keeps his medal on him. It has, like, a dual purpose where then all the nobles. Yeah, all the noblemen, like, wear the stuff so it enticed them each to kind of fight each other into, like, see each other’s weaknesses. Whatnot? Whereas it’s actually all just a ruse on his part to focus them off if they ever potentially saw the metal in his arms. Because that would then be the focus where instead it’s all like a deception. It’s a magic trick. Where then it’s like, okay, even if they saw that, it’d be like, oh, it’s just another piece of metal he has on them. Well, we’ve stocked up. We’ve stocked down. I’d like to talk a little bit about our favorite scene. We didn’t touch on this in the first app. We did on Miss Born. So I don’t know if you had anything from the first half of the book or really focusing on the second half of the book. I personally for the first half of the book, I liked the Vin learning about the metals part when she first goes out with Kelsey and he’s explaining it to her. It’s just good exposition. And I love those parts of the book where especially in a fantasy book like this, where there’s magic involved, where it’s setting up the magic and really explaining through them. I don’t know about you, but I always go back and listen to those again if I’m listening. And then the good part about this actual physical book, like I talked about on the last Pod, is that at the end of the book, it explains the magic in itself, like, what all the metals do, or at least the known metals. So I always love a good exposition part, but I’m not sure that was my favorite. I really did, like, Vin murdering channel Ariel. That was fun. And the thing I love about Vince fights, she’s obviously a prodigy. She’s a complete stud, there’s no question. But it’s not one of those things where it’s like a Jedi push or whatever, when they’re both pushing at each other and one pushes the other one more. It’s not like just like a sheer force of will or power. She’s using cunning and smarts to do this stuff. So with the inquisitors, she wraps the metal around the arrow tips so that when they push the metal, it’s like, no, the arrows are still flying, like genius. And then with Shan, she just very simply stops burning her ATM to make Shan feel like, okay, she’s not an ATM. It’s like, no got a little left and uses that to kill her, which I appreciate. Double arrow stabbed through the chest. It just seemed like it was a really cool scene. I think audible mention that could be number one is the Kelsey Inquisitor battle at the end. Because I just feel like that would be just a completely epic scene. That was my number one by far. Okay. Yeah. And the way it was written was really fun, too, because it was long. It was a drawn out battle. I felt like. But it didn’t feel chaotic. I felt like I knew what was happening. It was one of those ones where you’re seeing it in your head, bouncing off the wall, throwing stuff at each other. It’s like, okay, cool, I’m seeing it. So that’s your favorite scene? Yeah, we’ve referenced Matrix before already, but that was the Matrix scene of like, sometimes you got to choose to fight certain battles, even if you know you’re going to lose the subway fight. No. Where he’s like, I’m going back in. And they’re like, you can’t go back and you’ll get killed to go save more, right? Oh, it’s our people in there. All right, let’s fucking go. And they’re like, you’re going to get killed. There’s so many people in there. He’s like, no, I don’t give a shit. Let’s go. And like him telling Vince, hey, sometimes you got to do this for your friends. It doesn’t matter. That resonated too. And I was pissed that Vin to actually go in there and fight. I guess you kind of. Well, DOX was kind of holding her back. I mean, granted, she was doing to hold me back. Like, I want to go in there. Hold me back, hold me back, hold me back. Yeah. There’s nothing that she would have stopped her if she actually wanted to. Yes, that was definitely my favorite. I also do think that to your point, if I were writing this is what makes good writers. If I were writing an action scene, I’d be like, all right, then I shot that guy, and then I turned to the left and I shot another guy, and then I killed this other guy. He writes it, and it’s this long, drawn out battle, but you’re imagining it. And he does a very good job of you’re not just focused on these two guys, because I feel like that can be hard visually. When you’re reading a book like this, it’s like, oh, these two people are fighting and you don’t really have a sense of what’s happening in the background a lot of times, but because he includes a lot of the background stuff in there, but in a very streamlined way, it just made it super fun to read or listen to because you saw the whole street, you saw that whole thing. Erupting. And I actually equated that to the subway scene in The Matrix because that’s when they’re like, run and he starts to run away, and he turns around and it’s like, no, because the steel inquisitors kind of are like, Agent, that’s your point? And so he’s like, no, I’m going to fight. And even Kelsey said he’s always wanted to actually fight a steel Inquisitor which it ends with him killing him, which was super cool. Really great stuff. Hate love what you love. Yes. I like, Chelsea are pulling a JC or an Obiwan Kenobi and martyring himself. I appreciate it. Oh, Jesus Christ. Got you. Yeah. Wait, is this a spoiler for the Obiwan Kenobi? What do you mean, martyred himself? He didn’t. Yeah, but it also is kind of a question, though I had is to become a martyr. Is that the least egotistical thing you can do or the most egotistical thing you can do? You know what I mean? I want to be a God, but if you’re not ever getting appreciated for it, I think that’s not an ego thing, but also at the same time to be like, I’m a God. It has such a debate in my head on that. What is that? Yeah, well, I guess it depends on where you’re coming from, because this is interesting because Kelsey knew what he was getting into, whereas Joan of Arc, for instance, ended up getting burned at the stake. I don’t think she knew that she was going to become a martyr, but then, like, did. Is that the difference whether, you know, like, oh, I’m going to live on forever because of this. Whereas Joan of Arc was like, I died. Was Joan of Arc religious? I can’t remember because I feel like you’re doing it all before to be, like, good in heaven, then it’s not. Then that’s an ego thing. And it’s like, okay, whatever. I’m doing this because I think I’m going to go to heaven. I’m not a huge history person when it comes to the John Arc situation. I don’t know what John Ark is. She on Noah’s Ark. I don’t even know what that is. I think there was a Hillary Swank movie where she played John Hark. Then I saw, but from my understanding, a very young girl who led an army somehow because she was like, a complete religious zealot and then ended up getting captured and burned at the stake. It sounds different than Million dollar baby that I remember, but that’s not the billion dollar baby I know. Either way, she became a martyr, that’s for sure. But a lot of martyrs, I feel like in history didn’t plan on it. They had a passion that they were going for and got murdered because of it. I don’t think they were trying to spur whatever Kelsey was doing. So I’m going to go with not egotistical. Yeah. Okay. My first love is a real good twist, and there’s a few of them at the end of this book. So many of the books we read, the twists seem forced, especially the Ya ones where they’re like, well, we need a twist in here somewhere. I think that’s a factor of one us reading a lot of young adult books where they kind of force a twist to be cool and other ones where it’s like a thriller and you’re just waiting for the twist. And it’s also like a twist, as expected. So it’s almost by the time you get it, you’re just waiting for it to not fulfill you because it’s like, okay, you’re expecting this big thing, and it’s not that big. And I kind of wish those thrillers were rebranded in a way that weren’t supposed to be so twisty, because then when a twist comes, you’d feel a little better about it. Right? Like getting a present not on Christmas. It just feels better to get three presents on Christmas. You’re like, that wasn’t enough, but I just liked the twisted design because they didn’t really need them. The book was good on its own, and then the twists come one being like, Marsh actually became a steel Inquisitor. That was crazy because I was wondering, who the fuck is this other guy? At the end? I was like, there’s a sympathetic steel Inquisitor. Oh, shit. Like, Marcia’s back came from the dead. Super cool. And especially for the way this was set up in the first act as, like a heist book in all Heist movies. I feel like this happens where something goes wrong, whatever. But it was actually planned that way. And we’re thinking back to the Oceans movies and whatnot for it to be? The fact that Kelseier committed the ultimate sacrifice of getting himself killed, but had everything else pretty much set, knowing what was going to happen going forward. It was like, oh, that’s a sweet twist, too. So I’m trying to think of some other ones, but there was a few more, and I just thought that the way he did it, it wasn’t like, oh, twist is coming up. It wasn’t Lord Ruler being like, Vin, I’m your father. That would have been too trophy. Yeah. This is like a super trophy. No, there’s these other things that happened that were twists but weren’t forced. Actually came out of nowhere. Very enjoyable. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I was firing off. These are just quick ones. Remember the old book? I remember reading this when I was in elementary school, but a woman wears a scarf, and if she ever takes it off, her head falls off. Yeah, I think that’s why was that? A kid’s scary stories to tell in the dark, right? No, I don’t remember. But I just remember reading that when I was in, like, second or third grade being like, Holy shit, is that real? Is that true? It was like a book of scary stories, right? Woman pops are sitting, a bunch of spiders come out. Okay. Yeah, that sounds right then, yeah. They’re all small short stories. I feel like it was a huge book for elementary schools all across the country, because any time this comes up, because I talked about it with my girlfriend, because I was like, have you read this? Of course. And everyone remembers a different story from in there. But whether they remember one story or another store, everyone remembers the cover, which is the guy’s head that’s like in profile with pipe or something coming out of his mouth and like a red nose. But anyways, the reason I brought that up is because that’s basically what happens when the metal things come off of the Lord ruler. What? His head just collapsed. He just basically, like, shrivels and becomes. I think the same thing happens in Game of Thrones, too. But he just basically loses everything and he dies. That’s what’s holding him together. Oh, yeah. When they saw his body afterwards, like, it was all shriveled up and whatnot I was just thinking Voldemort in the train station when Harry dies, just like Voldemort under a bench. I also liked how Vin described running. Obviously running a long distance, but he’s like, I just want to die. This is the worst thing ever. And I’m, like, feel that run like a mile and a half the other day. And I was like, yes, why? Same thing? No, I just need to do something out of the house. And it’s just like, running sucks. Running horrible. I would rather do anything than run. I’d much rather play basketball for 2 hours and just continuously run than run for 15 minutes. Oh, for sure. Billion percent. So I had a couple to the crew. I just love the crew. I thought it was a cool idea how you have a Heist movie. And usually in a Heist movie, at least the ones that in today’s age, it’s like, okay, there’s the wheelman, there’s the mechanic, there’s the Smarty guy who figures out the plan. There’s all these things where in this book it was different magical powers. Like, oh, this guy has this power that he can use. And this guy Burns metal in this way that he can use, whether it be soothing or Ham with his strength, the burning pewter. And then, like, Kelsey is the mastermind. But there’s also Marsh, who’s, like, doing his infiltration thing. I love the specialist aspect of that, too, where they’re like an expert in the field. It’s pretty cool. Exactly. It’s almost like one of those old video games you’d play with your friends where it’s like, okay, everyone picks a different class or something like that like gauntlet Legends. I’m the warrior, you’re the mage. That person is the elf. That kind of thing. Old video games, that’s everything. All the video games now are like that. One other thing I love is that you can enjoy and Miss Born as a standalone book. I think that’s super important because it’s a 25 hours long book or 579 pages, whatever the case is a very small type. So if you read a book like that and it leaves a huge cliffhanger and the next book is just as long, it’s a little bit frustrating because you’re then stuck in a position where, okay, well, now I have to go and read the other book. And usually by the time you read that next book, you kind of forgot what all those important plot points were. Where Miss Born itself. I feel fulfilled reading that book. I feel like I just read a fucking epic story. But I do want more. There’s no question I’m very interested in what continues to happen in this universe. But I don’t feel like, okay, I have to read it right now or I’m going to forget whatever. It’s like, no, I get the beats and I’m ready to go. Thank you, Ms. Born. You’ve done your job, and now I can move on. So I feel like a lot of these times you don’t get that situation. So I appreciate that. Yes, that was my biggest gripe with the trilogy we started. Oh, the Hawthorne one. No, because that was. I mean, Hawthorne definitely had that. That’s terrible. No, the other epic fantasy one we read there. Oh, the fifth season. Yeah, that was my biggest season. Literally nothing happened. It ended. And I was like, okay, now I remember the last line, have you ever heard of the moon? Which the moon has not been said one time in the whole book before that point. And I was like, So you just ended a book. Nothing answered. Nothing happened in this book. And now you’re just saying, okay, the next book is going to have a whole different plot. It’s like, what? I’m still pissed you don’t say. The only love I have left, by the way, was just say Zed was basically a giver. Give powers and tell stories and stuff like that. I was like, oh, that’s kind of sick. But anyways, well, he was a giver without the diddling giver. Diddling people 100%. I remember really liking that book. I don’t know. Now the boys had to come into his lair, take all their clothes off, and then he put their hands on them and they saw visions. Yeah, sounds about right. Pretty sure it was. Diddling them. Okay, okay. Makes a lot of sense. Too much sense. Yeah. For hate. For me, the spook and Vin relationship. I don’t know if you heard this also in it, but it was just basically Forrest Gump and Jenny’s relationship. I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is that’s what it was, right? She’s like, I’ve got to let this artwork down a little bit. I’m going to break the news to him. Is he dumb like me? I got to let this guy that’s fear to me down a little bit. So I’ll let him know. Yes. I felt bad for Spook because he was super talented, Teney or whatever. And they really just made him seem like a dollar. And everyone just kind of shot on him. Yeah. They didn’t say, can you speak our language? They said, can you speak normal? I was like, it’s kind of ethnocentric. Yeah. He grew up in a different place. He’s got his own thing. If you went into Louisiana and they were like, talking by you, talk to you, you wouldn’t be like, speak English. I don’t understand. Can you elaborate? Well, it’s more like he speaks Spanish. They’re like, hey, speak normal. It’s like I speak a different language. What do you mean? No, it wasn’t that. He had, like, a dialectic thing. He was talking like, Yoda, he was talking. No, but he had a lot of different words. That it, didn’t he? I don’t know. Maybe he wasn’t like he was just speaking words out of order. You had other words that meant other things. Either way, they just did not show enough love for Spook and also just didn’t really feel like it needed to be a love thing. And I don’t really have any hates for this book. A lot of people I feel like, didn’t like, from what I gathered, the love story between Ben and Allen, the Spooky, I didn’t really understand it just didn’t seem that necessary. Just the youngest people in the crew and spooks about it. You could have shaved off a couple of hours there and just not worried about it. But the Allen one was totally fine. It didn’t bother me at all. And I didn’t find it to be like, trophy. Like, oh, girl from the slums has to dress up in a ball and do that thing. Yeah, that makes sense. This is part of the story. And her, like, doing that Ellen stuff. Great. And I’m sure it adds more to the next book. Did you have any other hates? Marsh turns into a steel Inquisitor. Right. And then he doesn’t know all the powers yet. He just got them, right. Sure. I don’t know how that works. I think they grant him all these powers. I don’t really get it. But, yeah, I think the process of him becoming a steel Inquisitor. Yeah. Allows him to get. But then he kills all seven of the other steel inquisitors, like one V seven. A brand new steel Inquisitor. I was like, yeah, it feels like you’d be able to get away with pulling out someone’s like the first one spike. Right. But then after that, there’d be like six turn on you and be like, I guess because they were saying they’re all passed out or something because they’re so tired. Yeah. I think they need to explain that a little bit. Like they needed to be in March’s head for maybe five minutes just to understand what we went on there, because I was like, wait, what? Yeah. And the narrative did jump around from whose point of view we were going from. So it would have been nice to get a Marsh chapter, although it would have spoiled the reveal when he saves Vin. But I do think that would have been interesting. Yeah. I also think when the new society is built, the people that are in power now shouldn’t just be staying power and continue. They should have to be scarred for like three years. And then you’re like, okay, now you’re back. You need some quality there, right? You can’t just be like, oh, yeah, these guys that kind of mistreated us for 20 years. Yes. They’re going to stay there no big deal. It’s like that’s going to breed resentment. The obligators, you’re saying? Yeah. Oh, they know more. Why do you think they know more? Because they’ve been fucking the ones doing it the whole time. Like being assholes. That doesn’t make their better. They’ve just basically allowed this to go on forever. So why would we give them more power? Which is why I’m interested in book two, because how is Allen going to deal with this? Because obviously the Scott aren’t just going to be like chill being Scott anymore. So how’s the society actually going to function? And I feel like those things will be addressed in the second one. So I agree. But I’m also interested to see how it plays out. Let’s just quickly break down. We put some predictions out there last time in the first part, and it may have sounded stupid, we don’t know. But we got some predictions. We got some lingering questions that are still around after having the second part as well. So I guess I’ll start off I asked if originally if Vin was Neo or is she Vader, that kind of thing? I don’t think she’s Vader. She’s definitely closer to Neo, but it almost opens up more questions at the end. Where is Vin the same as the Lord ruler? Like, is she part Alamancer and part Pharaoh chemist? Because she’s able to do a lot of the stuff the Lord ruler is, but doesn’t really understand how. And the reason why I think she might be this part Ferrochemist situation is because she has that earring from her mom that they keep referencing and she puts back in her ear, and the Pharaoh come as can store memories and objects. Right. That’s the thing. So what if within this earring is some memories that her mom is shared with her? Yeah. Or she’s taking strength from it or something. No, because I feel like it has to be a memory thing. I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong, but I just feel like that’s one of those things where she understands how to actually unlock the safe which is when she finds that out like the ferry chemistry stuff we’re kind of led to believe that she may be this savior they’ve been looking for. Right because the first guy who died I can’t remember what the Lord will is real name was but he took it from him so they also kind of alluded to that there will be another hero potentially. Yeah that’s probably thin but definitely more Neo than Vader. So we’ll go there. What did you have for any predictions? My actually first one was Venisonio Grey Man. Why? Because when we read Greyman in the span of 72 hours he doesn’t sleep, he travels like across twelve European countries he gets shot, he gets tortured, he’s getting stoned up while he’s driving he’s just basically never lose a blood transfusion. No he’s just going all out for the 2 hours Ben gets in that fight with the steel and Quizzard then she’s out for like three months and I was like Gray man would not do this shit Grayman would be out the next day like fighting them again we can’t have this Neo same thing so I was a disappointed you got to get off the men there and get back in best ability is availability. Yeah for sure if you’re on the bench it’s next man up you might never see her. Exactly right but she’s 16 so we’re going to give her the 1617 we’re going to give her the benefit of the doubt. She’s new but I am fascinating to see what happens with her powers because obviously she’s an Anakin kind of situation. What else do you have for analyst predictions? Whatever we already talked about but yeden your boy betrayed but he also betrayed them so I knew there was something off with him you can’t trust to eaten get him out of here. See you later. You said you loved him listen back this is low hanging fruit so I’m not going to Pat myself on the back on this but I said Vin as well as renew is going to get it going with the Venture air and I guess that was really set in looking back it seems very obvious and he was too nice of a guy. I was thinking that there was going to be like him turning on her the way Rein did or something like that and I liked even though it was like kind of contrived in trophy the idea that Rein held out at the end and didn’t give her up that kind of stuff but I thought that one I got it right but I’m not taking any points for it. I also had what the F is a missed rate and we did get some insight not only how the missed rates are formed which you kind of got in the first half but also that there’s these Changeling type creatures that are related to miss rates that can assume people’s bodies and kind of become them. But they’re also like your servants. They hire themselves out and also that the mists themselves were like chicken and the egg. Ms. Born brought myths and not vice versa, where the myths are reactive to them. So I feel like we’re going to get a lot more with that kind of lore, and I am excited for that. Yeah, I agree. Do you have any other stuff? Other one was, I think I had said, the best metal to have. If you only could choose one. It’s clearly pewter. You’re right. So I was definitely wrong on that because I didn’t realize you could just burn it first and run for 16 hours and just like, crush. I was like, oh, wait, what? I thought it was like something that burned really quickly. No, I said tinker used for a little bit. Oh, did you? I said tinker King was sensitive. Yeah. Okay. Computer was like, essentially fly. It sounds like cut down on travel time. You could basically be a car yourself. I was like, oh, that’s pretty legit. I’d take that. Now. The running thing would be pretty spectacular. I mean, I don’t play five on five basketball anymore. I really never did. But it’s really one of those things where especially playing pickup ball, people aren’t conditioned. Like, no one’s conditioned for basketball. And you might even be good in the first five minutes, but after that, you’re really just running on fumes and just trying to survive. So if you are able, even if you sucked at basketball, if you’re just able to stay in that conditioning level and be that absolute Dick who’s playing defense the whole time, like heavy defense and not taking any plays off. I only play defense. I take plays off an offense. That’s what you got to be doing. Okay. Yeah. Because you can’t shoot. That makes sense, you know what I’m saying? It’s just like, Peter would be a fun one to have. Although then you’d have, like, a hangover for the next. Imagine if you played basketball 100% for like 2 hours, then you came home. You’re like, oh, my God, I just PewDiePie. You get the day off the next day. That’s what NBA. You know, maybe they’re all taking pewter. Yeah. Wow. Is it a bad substance? Last year over the cast in the movie. I think I previously said that someone had bought the rights get passed along. Now it’s in the hands of that guy who wrote that terrible movie. It’s like F. Scott Fitzgerald, but it’s not or something. D. Scott Fitzgerald. Yes. You can’t do that name if you’re that close to it. No, it is F. Scott Frazier. Oh, F. Scott Fraser. That’s way too close to the other guy’s name. You can’t do an F. Scott. Either way, it seems like this guy’s going to need some help. So let’s help him cast the movie. Keith, who do you got? I’m assuming you have some top players here, Kelsey. I did Hugh Jackman. Little old Kelsey is supposed to be like, all right. He’s supposed to be like 35. Yeah, I like him still. You Jackman. I mean, he’s the Wolverine. He basically doesn’t age, so it’s fine. Yeah, he’s the greatest showman. Yeah. Okay. I had Daniel Kaluya from most notably Get Out Fame, I guess. Okay. And I thought he was the perfect match of the right age range. Good looking, but not like, strikingly good looking, where it’s like, oh, this guy’s just, like, too hot to trot because I feel like so many of the actors that you would potentially go with are like, he’s sexy, which I don’t think Danny Collie is an unattractive man whatsoever, but I think he’s the right level of attractiveness where it’s not like his skills and his ability to move people aren’t based on his looks. It’s based on his charisma and his talent. So I think he’d be really good as Kelsey. I was thinking Kelsey would be more of like a father figure. So they’d cast him as an older guy because he basically needs to be a father to a 16 or 17 year old, right? Yeah, but he’s not a father. He’s more of like, an older brother. That also he has, like, Peter Pan type syndrome where the seriousness of the world hasn’t yet weighed down on him. He’s still a little fun, risky, happy, but the world is basically way down on him. But he’s just like, they can’t take away my smile or something like that. I think that’s true. I feel the older you get, the more it’s supposed to be like he’s a wise person and he’s seen stuff where he’s really just not quite there yet. But that was my take. Did you have Ven? Yes. Again, we get to that. Like, it’s a 16 or seven year old girl. I didn’t know it Bobby Brown. I mean, you can’t go wrong with anything. No, that checks out. Actually. She’s basically playing the same role in Stranger Things. Yeah, I’ve seen all the previews for it, so I think it was just like, you got to do it. I don’t hate that at all, actually. I think that might be better than mine, but I went with Caitlin Derr. Have you seen Booksmart? No. Oh, good movie. You should check that out. She’s in Booksmart. She’s in that dope six show on Hulu and another Netflix series. She’s a little older, but I feel like she’s younger looking and could totally fill the part of someone who doesn’t really know what’s going on, but then becomes like a super beast, which is what Vin is. Yeah, it makes sense. You had seize it, you said, right? Yeah. I’m going to Butcher this name. Jaimon Hansu. Jamon Hansu. He’s the dude from Blood Diamond. He’s probably played this role a bunch times, but I feel like he plays like the wise kind of all knowing dude. That’s kind of also reserved. I can dig it. I didn’t have to say that. But I did have a Lord ruler and I just said Josh Brolin. I mean, maybe it’s because he’s what’s his name in the Avengers series. That’s what I thought of him. Or maybe because I just saw him on Hot Ones, but I feel like he’s the right age range and also he could do the voice and the right level of strength and presence that I thought he’d be a great Lord ruler. I was thinking Jared Leto. That’s what I was imagining. My mind. What do you get for reader email? You’ve got mail Lizzy from Rancho Santa Fe, California. Rancho Santa Fe. In order to get your elementic powers, you must Snap aka, I’m reading this from the email, so I should be able to read it quickly. You can’t read. That’s why you listen to books. Yeah. You have a Snap aka have a death defying experience to get your powers so they don’t unlock until you have some sort of experience like that. However, the nobility live in luxury, so how is it possible that they’re snapping and getting these powers thoughts on that? Well, I want your thoughts first. Sure. I think that maybe in the next book that they’re similar to a Red Rising, that they send them to a school death defying experience and that’s only the best nobility come away with. That right. That’s a good point. And only the best people are then granted nobility. Yeah. Like if you were at the Choosing or something like that from Red Rising. Yeah. Like the first thing where they walk me over there, it’s like if someone’s about to break your neck, you might just snap right then. Right. And they’re like, okay, now whose powers are more greater? Well, I think they address this in the book and they said that they can do for Snaps, so they have beaten basically like Ms 13 or something like that. So other nobility just like beat the crap out of someone. And if they snap, then it’s like, oh, good. And if they don’t, it’s like you’re a little bit. So it seems like everyone’s had. Yeah. Okay. I guess the answer is that. All right, so let’s get into the most important part. Keith, would you recommend Miss Bourne, The Final Empire? Yeah, for sure. I think all the points you said earlier, great fantasy novel. Doesn’t feel like it’s a 25 hours book, easy to get into, even though there is a lot of deep thought into the world itself. You could probably pick up this book in the middle of the book and kind of figure it out from there. It’s not like you need all this huge background. You don’t need all this huge understanding of lore fantasy to get it. So I thought it was a great novel. Like you mentioned Brandon does a good job of writing a complete novel that says, oh, if there’s a sequel, great, I want to read it. But you don’t need a sequel in order to appreciate the book itself. Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. I think this is a great intro to fantasy at a longer page length or whatnot if you’re ready for a bigger book. So if you read some of the other books we’ve read, like Enders Game or something, which is definitely a Ya Sci-Fi situation, but you wanted to get more into the fantasy realm. I don’t think we’ve read any real fantasy novels, I guess, Besides the fifth season, right? Yeah. That one was like a ten in terms of getting into. I think that was too much. Yeah. No, for sure. I want to keep it at seven and a half. And there’s like the Neil Gaiman ones, which are like technically fantasy, but they’re pretty much set in the real world. It’s just fantastical elements. Right. So I think in a strict fantasy world, this is a really good book to kind of decide I’m going to go all in and just go for it. And I think if you read this one, I mean, I downloaded after your suggestion, like The Clash of Kings or whatever that one is. Oh, Jeez. And that’s 45 hours long. But because I read this book, I was like, okay, well, that 45 hours is going to go really quick and it’s going to be super fun and enjoyable. It’s a great road trip book. Like, if you were doing a long road trip, that one, you just put it on and you’re like, yeah. The fact that reading this book enticed me to download a 45 hours long book just shows how much I liked it. So I’m excited for part two. I’m hoping that maybe we do the well of Ascension on a feature podcast. We’ll see if people want to hear that. But I like, it. Cool. Before we leave, Marsh says there are two things. I’ll never forgive Kelsey for stealing my dream of overthrowing the Final Empire. And then Vince says, and the second, Connie’s circus folk. Nomads, you know, smell like cabbage. Small hands.
Participant #1:
There’s two things I don’t stand in people. People that are into others. And the duck. Is that what it is? Something like that comes to the first one where he says, there’s two things I’m afraid of, and one is nuclear war, and then stop. So I was like, what’s the other? Excuse me, what’s the other thing that scared you, Connie? Yeah. But when Marsh said that, it was so good because he was like, there’s two things I’ll ever give Kelsey for it does. This whole stealing the junior over there in the final bar, and then pauses. So it’s like, what? And I immediately in my head was like, Connie’s second smoke. Wait was a second. I don’t remember. It was like, Kelsey or dying. I thought it was him stealing away his wife. No, it was like stealing my dream and then also dying. I think that was the real answer. That’s what she said. Yeah, I like it. All right. Well, either way. Great book. I’m glad we did it. It’s going to be highly ranking on buddybookhop.com so go there to find our top five. Top ten. I don’t know exactly what’s out there, but coming up next, what do we have? We’re going literary. Yeah. Lord of the Flies William Golding. It’s interesting because it’s obviously a huge book in schools and whatnot and that’s when we read it. I don’t know if I read it or if I just kind of followed along with what the class was doing, but we’ll jump into some actual literary deep dives or at least that’ll be a section. There’s no chance I’ll it. We do that on every book. Yeah, well, Keith to another get up, Ms. Bourne. I’m glad we read it and thanks for pushing me there. And I guess until next time. Bye now. Bye now.
