Columbus Day – Craig Alanson – Episode 94

A listener recommended Columbus Day by Craig Alanson to the Buddies, because it follows around a joke-telling, cheeseburger-eating, lower-iq-having, protagonist. Figured we’d relate. They were absolutely right. The Buddies took on book #1 of the Expeditionary Force series and fit right in. They got to talking about chivalry, the duck test, and the negatives of having AI always around. So put on your  best down east accent, prepare to defend the world, and join us as we blast into Columbus Day.

Intro/Book Report (0:00-2:40)
Stock Up/Down (02:41-23:54)
Favorite Scene (23:55-26:08)
Favorite Character (26:09-27:47)
About the Author (27:48-29:39)
Love/Hate (29:40-41:01)
Lingering Questions/Casting the Movie (41:02-42:59
Conclusion (43:00-46:09)

NEXT BOOK: Scorched by Don Silver

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

All right, welcome to Book Club.
I’m Dylan here with my own tin can of a sidekick, Keith.
What’s up, buddy?
And I’m here with Dylan, aka the Bonnie guy.
Not not bad.
Not bad.
Here’s the book, but we’re going to have some bestsellers.
And this week we’ll be discussing Columbus Day, book one
of the expeditionary four series written by Craig
Allenson.
If you’d like to recommend a book for us to read or reach out
to us in a past episode, you can visit our website,
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Please and thank you.
Keith, I was going to jump into stock up stock down for this one,
but I hear a book report was put together.
Oh, yeah, Columbus Day is a sci-fi adventure story that
takes a humbling use correctly, look at mankind
in our place in the universe.
That’s the question, what if humans aren’t that great at anything
outside of being humorous and not killing innocent civilians,
especially Americans?
We’ve never ever killed any innocent civilians.
Our main character is Joey Bishop,
every day blue collar man turned hero.
He likes making jokes, eating cheeseburgers,
laying with women, and as a wicked, sick, boss
in accent, according to the audiobook.
What I’m trying to say is he’s basically me and D-Man.
Or like every protagonist in anywhere is book,
but likable and doesn’t drone on about science for 90% of the book.
If you like Independence Day or Men in Black or any 90s action comedy,
you’ll like this.
Yeah, I like how you went with two Will Smith movies
and then just any 90s action comedy.
If you like Independence Day, Men in Black,
Rich, and Seven Pounds, or whatever that movie was,
then check out Concussion.
Wild Wild West, look at Wild Wild.
Don’t get me started on that movie.
Yeah, that was all right.
You know, I’m going to give it a 76.
OK, I thought pandering to you saying you’re a hero that likes
cheeseburgers, has a good boss next,
and then gets with women.
Yeah.
Would give me a couple of points up, but apparently not.
It’s funny you mentioned the Andy Weir thing,
because he used the same publishing company.
I think that Andy Weir is, or at least for the audiobook.
The Martian, the guy who does RC Bray, I think his name is,
who’s the narrator of the audiobook,
is the same narrator for the Martian.
He’s not doing a Boston accent.
He’s doing a Down East accent, which is similar but different.
Down East is a manor, a manor accent.
Let’s get into Stock Up Stock Down, Stock Up, where you go?
Stock up, Skippy.
Oh.
The peanut butter?
I did, obviously, like the AI unit.
But I’m talking about the peanut butter.
And I know you’re a proud brand loyalist around
when it comes to Heinz ketchup.
But for me, it’s the peanut butter.
I think I’ve done taste tests with Skippy versus…
Jeff.
All those other fucking shitty knock-offs.
But Skippy peanut butter is by far the king.
It’s a great name.
Is there anything else other than Heinz that you champion?
Yeah, I don’t drink soda, but if someone
was to offer me a Coke or a Pepsi, I would say I want a Coke.
You know?
OK.
So I’m not necessarily a brand loyal in that sense.
But my grandparents who loved their sodas,
good Midwestern folk, are pop.
They’re pop.
Excuse me, they’re pop.
Yeah.
Thank you.
My grandmother was, I think it was caffeine-free Coke.
And my grandfather was a Pepsi guy.
And it was like, you know, in the house you had to have.
Post-apited.
And I was like, yeah, wow, you just just.
Great spear types, too.
Someone’s got to figure this thing out.
It’s the Montague’s versus the, I forget the other ones.
But yeah, so I don’t think so.
I think I’m a diamond kosher salt guy, diamond crystal kosher
salt.
So if you’re going to get into salts.
But no, I don’t think so.
I am a Skippy over a GIF guy, for sure.
We didn’t have a lot of sugar in the household as a child,
as I’ve said before.
And we also have a local peanut butter brand here
in Massachusetts called Teddy, which is now, I think,
they sell it country-wide.
But it’s really good.
It’s just natural peanut butter.
So it was just peanuts and salt.
So it’s really good.
We grew up with that.
I still eat that to this day.
But I remember when my mom started allowing us to get,
like, Skippy and we got a Costco membership
and you can get Skippy a Costco.
Oh my god, I used to just spoonful.
Because it was just, it’s just candy.
You know, it’s just like peanut butter candy.
Well, well, it’s really healthy.
I don’t know what you’re saying now.
Do you remember when they released the Reese’s peanut butter?
And you could buy it in a jar?
No.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
My older brother and my older brother
got that and let us try it.
And it was like the greatest thing ever.
I just remember when I came out and I was like, wow,
this is crack for kids.
I do remember, like, five years ago,
they released natural peanut butter, Skippy’s.
And I was like, oh, I’m eating healthy now.
This is great.
And then you look at the ingredients.
They’re exactly the same.
Yeah.
The calories, the sugar, all that other stuff.
Like every single thin line, I was exactly the same.
The last three ingredients are, like, slightly different.
Well, all natural isn’t a phrase that’s relegated or whatever
by the FDA.
You know, if you say no antibiotics or something,
then the FDA has to be sure.
Listen, I was getting healthy.
Does that mean you see all natural on anything?
You could put all natural on crack.
All natural skittles.
It does.
Yeah.
It literally doesn’t mean anything.
Yeah.
And sorry to divert us here.
I actually did really like Skippy.
I thought it was a great AI or computer program.
But I do have a stock down that’s
coming up that’s related to that.
But I just didn’t want to make sure that ties back
to the book a little bit.
Yeah.
Let’s stick with the food theme here with my stock up.
And I mean, it has to be cheeseburgers.
We got to talk about cheeseburgers at some point.
Because our main stud here, Joe Bishop,
the whole time he’s paradise or coming back from paradise
or on the ship or even when he gets back to the States
and hasn’t had the opportunity yet,
he’s just craving a cheeseburger.
And because he talks about it so often,
it hadn’t me craving a cheeseburger.
Maybe it’s the only like foody aspect of me.
But I don’t like going out to a restaurant
and ordering a cheeseburger.
I feel like it’s just like too easy.
If it was, I don’t know, some sort of specialty blend
or something like that, I give it a try.
But so with that being said, I don’t eat cheeseburgers a lot.
But summers are on the corner and that means,
and that means barbecues.
And I like a mean Smashburger, big fan of a good Smashburger.
So I think if I was coming back and really craving a cheeseburger,
I’d want like a Smashburger with grilled onions
and Big Mac sauce, which you’re a cheeseburger of choice.
Like how do you like your cheeseburgers?
You’re like thick patties, you’re like thin patties.
You know, you want that thing rare.
How do you do it?
Yeah, I actually didn’t mind his order.
I like the cheddar.
I like the cheddar order from him.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
Big cheddar guy.
I’m not a very good cheeseburger here, but yeah.
I’m also, you say you don’t like going out for it.
I like diner burgers.
So like the almost like the Wendy’s type,
but like buttery on that flat grill or like a steakhouse burger.
Like one of those dick burgers with like good fries.
Everything else in between, I think, is you’re right.
You can probably just make it at home.
Do they do cheeseburger subs at West?
Or is that just a whole?
I need to bring it out here almost.
Yeah, like you go to a pizza joint or whatever around here
and you get that cheeseburger sub,
maybe ask them to chop up the burger patty a little bit.
So it’s not just kind of like stacks.
Oh my god, that’s so good.
What do you think you would crave?
Like would you be looking for a cheeseburger
if you were away from Earth for several years?
Or what do you think you’d be looking for?
I think the meat aspect is what they’re really craving.
Yeah.
You can’t really beat a hot pizza for me.
What about you?
I think I’d want a big ball of like beef like that.
What?
Yeah, like the Vietnamese soup.
Oh, OK.
Yeah, I was not expecting that.
I was thinking about it just as I was digging a hole outside
before he was doing chatting.
And I was wondering like what it would be like.
Because it hits that, I agree with you.
It’s the meat note that you really need.
The thing is, I don’t know you can’t be gluttonous with that,
though, whereas a pizza, I’m like, I’m going to eat eight slices
tonight.
You can’t do like 17 bowls of that, can you?
You go to Fupester in Chinatown in downtown Boston
and they give it a massive note.
But the XL bowl is massive.
But I don’t want any of that like tripe.
I don’t want the beef intestine.
That’s just not for me.
Stick with the brisket and the eye round.
That’s all I need.
OK.
What else do you have for stock up?
Shipery stock up.
Oh, this is not early on the book.
So you might not remember this.
But I kind of left this scene in particular.
So they get on to the new planet that
has been the training planet.
Sorry.
Oh, OK.
Gotcha.
What’s that called?
Alpha, I think, or something?
Sure.
And they’re not used to the heat.
It’s super hot and like the gravity is super high.
And not everyone’s struggling.
He sees like woman there.
And then she’s like struggling to walk.
And he’s like, oh, she’s about to like pass out.
So he goes up and likes, hey, like, you’re right.
She’s like, just because I’m a woman, you know, doesn’t,
you don’t need to like treat me differently.
He’s like, no, I treat anyone like this.
And they’re like, she’s like, all right, thanks.
And drinking some water.
And then he sees a dude who’s doing the same thing.
He’s struggling.
And he watches him.
And he face plants into the ground.
And he’s just like, that’s too bad.
I was like, wait a second.
Yeah.
That’s the exact same thing that just happened.
He’s like, sucks to be you.
And they’re like, what a pussy.
Stand up on your own two feet, bud.
So I appreciated that.
The show that he wasn’t dead here.
I also appreciated Joey Bishop.
No kissing and telling, you know?
Yeah.
You just like, I appreciated that.
And it also kind of gave a lot of women empowerment
in this book.
I feel like women were in charge of a lot of things.
They’re pretty heavily in the army.
And what’s her name?
Shawna was like, I’m just using you for sex.
Like, you know, to Joey Bishop.
And he was like, my feelings are hurt.
I was like, all right, Joey.
OK.
All right.
Honestly, that’s how I would feel too.
I’d be like, oh, I’m just in it
for the sex.
Then they’d be like, I don’t like you.
I’d be like, oh, oh, oh.
Well, no one’s ever told me I’m good at sex.
I would be OK with that.
Same thing.
My ego would be boosted pretty good.
Yeah, it’s funny because I was reading some reviews
on Goodreads, which this is like a 4.3, I want to say.
I didn’t write it down, so I forget.
But I think it’s like a 4.3 on Goodreads, which is pretty high,
which is also interesting because there’s
a ton of negative reviews.
So I was wondering how they all evened out.
But one of them, in particular, and I
saw this a couple times, was talking about how there’s not
enough fleshed out women characters in the book or whatever.
It’s like, oh, it’s just like there’s
no women characters.
Like so many women characters, like the head pilot,
super important job.
Woman, the president of the United States.
Woman, the leader of the Ruhan woman.
And one of the things they hate about the crostang
is that they treat women as basically vehicles for babies.
And that’s it.
And they can turn them to the knobs.
It’s deplorable.
So I found that interesting.
I think that person’s take was just bad, honestly,
because I think there is good female representation in this.
I think it was lost in the fact that there’s really
no ancillary characters that are fleshed out.
So woman or man, it doesn’t really matter.
The story is about Joe and Skippy.
That’s set in a larger galactic battle that’s going on.
So shame on you that person.
Shame on you.
Yeah.
So they just wanted to have a hot take.
There’s no hot takes necessary.
I mean, if you’re going to read a military book with the cover
looking like a sci-fi thing, we’re
not going to get some notebook type level characters.
It’s just let’s be honest, OK?
Yeah, exactly.
So it’s like I’m annoying that.
It’s like, yeah, I read an old man in the sea right before this.
And I’ll tell you what, Hemingway’s prose
is way better than Craig Allenson’s.
So my next stock up is leading by example, stock up.
Our buddy Joe here, or as you like to affectionately call him,
Joey, natural leader.
This self-deprecating nature is important, for sure.
Additionally, he admits what he doesn’t know,
which is vitally important as a leader, especially
in a situation where you’re in space fighting
against these creatures you don’t even really
know anything about.
And you’re doing it on behalf of another set of creatures
you don’t know anything about.
The leadership, in general, is lacking in sharing of information.
So Joe, by admitting, hey, I’m not really 100% sure
about what’s exactly going on, but here are my principles
and here’s why I’m doing it.
People want to follow that kind of person.
And additionally, when things go wrong or something
along those lines, he takes accountability for it,
whether they go wrong or right.
He doesn’t ask anyone to do anything.
He wouldn’t do himself.
It’s like, hey, we got to grab these rockets.
Like, I’m taking two.
It’s like, oh, OK.
Like Joe’s taking two, so I can carry one.
He’s got open and honest communication with his people.
Granted, he did kind of lead them off planet
and then tell them what they were going to do.
But sometimes you got to do that as a leader as well.
And then additionally, he takes on personal sacrifices
for the men and women under his command.
I couldn’t imagine only having basically
like a terrible protein shake.
You know, when you sometimes mix a protein shake together
in the blender and you put like too much spinach in it
or something, and it’s like, oh, this is fucking gross.
I’ve never put spinach in a protein shake ever.
But yeah, go on.
Yeah, it’s just like, oh, this is disgusting.
That’s pretty much what he’s eating all the time.
And even though the rest of the folks only have MREs,
at least there’s like a cookie in those MREs or something,
where he’s just slugging down this gross stuff.
So I just thought Joe was a really good leader
and also just a likable character in general.
He just seems like just another guy,
but he also sells himself short at how smart he is.
Because he’s always talking about either books
or historical figures or stuff like that
that he uses as references that I think go over
a lot of other people’s heads.
And he’s just like, I don’t even know where he learned it.
Maybe he’s just like loves jeopardy or something,
which I would also respect.
But yeah, I just thought Joe was a really good character.
What did you think about Joe?
Because he is really what this book.
No, I think you nailed it without everything there.
I did appreciate that he was modest,
although the end of the book was one of my hate.
He’s modest to a fault.
He’s like, I gotta take off this,
the kernel ranking that I got.
I gotta do all these things and go back to my,
I was like, bro, you literally saved the world.
You couldn’t stand up for yourself a little bit now.
You can kind of have a little bit of swagger.
That doesn’t mean you have an ego.
I couldn’t agree with you more there.
I think he does have to take off the kernel
because it was like an in-combat kind of promotion
or whatever the case was and you are in theater promotion.
So I respect him being like, yeah,
I have to take that off and not being like,
I know I deserve this now, but at least say,
I deserve a ticker tape parade or something.
I just saved the friggin world.
Like the first thing I do when I came back,
I would be like, hey, Mrs. Madam President,
I need a cheeseburger and she’d be like,
immediately, I’ll get that for you.
It’s like, yeah, all right.
We talked about it for the last book,
but the CIA also was just kind of being like,
you should have done things differently.
And this is how it works.
Shut the fuck up.
You got to shove them in the corner.
Yeah.
Tell them what’s good.
I would give them a nougie.
I put that guy in the head locking and you give them a nougie
and you’re just like, that’s the kind of mentality you’d be in.
I’d be like, hey, Skippy, what’s this guy’s address?
And you’d tell me, I’d be like, all right,
do you want to get your house blown up right now?
Don’t talk to me like that ever again.
I’d probably take the power to my head a little bit,
but that’s okay.
I did like his fight with Constantinople
or whoever the scientist was when he met him at the bar.
Well, he should be needed to be stuffed in a locker.
Like, come on.
That’s how we needed for that.
Good, that guy is swirly.
It was kind of like the football mentality.
He’s like, you’re a great player,
but you’re not good for the team.
You’re not a team chemistry guy.
And we can’t have that.
And I was like, love it.
I didn’t understand how that wasn’t vetted
by the people that put the list together.
He had to go in there and say, yeah,
this is not a personality fit.
That’s like one of the biggest parts
of sending astronauts to the International Space Station
and stuff like that.
It’s like, all right, you’re gonna spend 180 days
in a confined space together.
Like, can you operate as a team?
Are you a personality fit with these people?
Otherwise, people look crazy.
So the fact that he even made the cut
from the humanities side is like, yeah,
maybe the Christianity, right?
Agreed.
Did you get any of their stock ups?
Last one is American guns, stock up.
I mean, I know the M4 gets talked a lot about.
They’re like, oh, we have as a M4.
But you know what?
The M4 is still shooting when the AI tries to take it over.
We still get the gunpowder.
We still fire in there.
I mean, it sounds like these advanced technological guns
aren’t all that great.
Cause they roll in and just basically diffuse
like a whole ship worth of people
cause they have like brain implants
and then all their guns stop working.
It’s like, oh man, just give me a good old Colt 45
and we’re good to go.
Like that’s what you need.
And then these wars up there.
So gunpowder, red, white and blue, lesser technology.
That’s what we do down here in America.
So we love that stock up.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that’s a really good point.
Skippy can pretty much just take control
of any sort of weapon system he can except for, except for us.
Stock down, what do you have for stock down?
Stock down, I only had one and I already referenced this
a little bit, but AI with a sense of humor, stock down.
I think this is pretty popular these days.
In the AI world or the robotic world is like making the AI
or robot, the comic relief.
Obviously Star Wars started it.
It was pretty big there.
And then even the Rogue One one with that robot
was like a few member like the pilot robot,
basically just making jokes the whole time.
Project Hail Mary, I know that wasn’t an AI that they meet,
but it basically was like a robot.
Yeah, exactly.
It’s pretty much the same thing.
We thought about the consequences here.
I feel like I’m just imagining AI with that sense of humor
just ragging on me and pulling up embarrassing videos
on the internet.
They’re like, look at this kid.
Like this is what he used to do.
I’m like, what the hell?
And just openly talking about my internet search history.
He’s like, do you want to see what you keep
in search any night?
I’ll be like, oh shit, cut that.
Cut it.
They have too much power to be able to rag on people.
Or like pulling out old test scores or papers
and things like that that they have digitally saved.
And they’re just like, you see this?
I don’t want that type of history or that type of power.
Because if we had that access to our friends’ stuff,
we’d be using it.
So they now have all that.
Oh, there’s too much power.
The psychological warfare would be insane.
It’s too much.
It’s too much.
So I think we just make them analytical.
Let’s cut the sense of humor.
Skippy should have been blackmailing people
with internet search history the whole time.
Like that would have been all he had to do.
He doesn’t realize the power he has.
Couldn’t agree more.
And similarly, one of my stockdowns was living.
Having to live with an all seeing artificial intelligence
that’s around you 24 hours a day, which Joe Bishop does.
And we know that Joey B is a sexual being
after the coyotes that occurred with Shana on Paradise.
And he liked it very much.
And man or woman, you’re gonna need a release
when you’re out in the world for months at a time,
especially in these hectic situations.
And he’s got Skippy on his nightstand,
like an Amazon Alexa.
It’s there recording, living in the moment with you.
It’s honestly just like having another person
looking over you all the time,
but he has to have skippy with him.
So I guess he’s comfortable with it.
You know, I don’t know, but I’m just,
did Joe just not do anything?
No pleasure.
No pleasure in the palace of the ship for the whole time.
You know, I’m the, I had some questions about that.
You know, because even towards the end,
Skippy’s making jokes like, oh, Joe about it.
Like do you not like women or whatever the case is?
Joe’s like, I like women.
But it’s like, Joe should be like,
I like women, you just are on my shoulder the whole time.
I can’t bring up, you know, browsers.
Well, Skippy could turn into whatever he wanted
if you don’t have man.
He could use a little, a little relief.
Just like, yeah, all right.
Too much too soon.
Skippy comes back, Joe.
Joe violated me in space.
He changed my shape.
What did he do?
Yeah.
I mean, Skippy would have to consent.
That’s for sure.
So that’s what matters.
My other stock down was the duck test.
I mean, we’re all familiar with the duck test.
If it looks like a duck swims like a duck quacks like a duck,
it’s probably a duck.
So I want to talk about a little bit of the Kristang
and Ruhan situation here,
because the whole time the UEF, right?
That’s what it is, like the United Expeditionary Force
and the governments associated with it are all team Kristang.
Kristang, so I understand the Kristang
like quote unquote, save the human race from the Ruhan,
but immediately afterwards,
they’re setting up shop and acting like overlords.
They telling the humans what they can and can’t do.
They’re using human soldiers in battle
instead of sacrificing their own.
And also then like pretty much directing UEF operations
on the ground, it obviously comes to a head
when they start asking people to assassinate Ruhan,
which kind of comes out of the blue
and doesn’t seem like it was the greatest decision
by my account.
But still, they’re marginalizing women folk
like we talked about,
exploiting the Earth’s resources
without concern for its effects on the planet.
At one point, they got mad at the UEF
for accepting Ruhan medical aid
when at this point they hadn’t offered,
and they never do,
but offered humans any of their advanced medical technology.
And it’s not like you have to tell them the technology,
you should be like, hey, get in this pod, it will heal you.
And also the Kristang are like lizard people
which down on lizard reptiles in general.
And then on the other hand, we have the Ruhan
who all in all have been pretty chill with humans.
Like, okay, yeah, they attacked Earth initially,
but they limited their attacks to infrastructure
and clearly went out of their way
to limit human casualties.
And on paradise, they have a good relationship
with an occupying UEF force.
They had Joe over for tea and biscuits all the time.
Would the Kristang do that?
And basically my point is the entire time
the Kristang are acting like total dicks.
Everyone’s saying they’re total dicks,
but we’re still doing their bidding for them
against the Ruhan who are overall pretty chill.
It seems like from the get,
it should have been clear to everyone
that the Kristang were the real assholes.
Yeah, the Ruhan’s whole logic though
didn’t make a lot of sense or like Kristang
or they’re gonna come in there and use their resources.
So we’ll just bomb the shit out of them
so they don’t have resources first.
It’s like, huh, why don’t you just go there
and defend them and then you could ally with,
I don’t know, it seemed like Ruhan,
there’s some, Ruhan that weren’t all,
they’re cracked up to be either.
I think they weren’t necessarily the greatest either.
They were helping them get them off paradise
and then they were like, attack them.
And then like a minute later, they’re like, all right,
they’re back to being our friends again.
It’s like, they just attacked you.
Like, what do you mean?
Like, yeah, but they didn’t try to kill as many as you can.
Who’s the, who’s the, who’s the, they’re here?
The Ruhan.
Oh, okay.
Like they bombed the military base
and they’re like, and then the next day they’re like,
okay, let’s go back to treating them with respect.
It’s like, fuck that.
Like they just killed a bunch of people.
They bombed the barracks or whatever
because no one or whatever the place was
because no one was supposed to be there.
And then it turns out they were there.
So yes, I mean, he’s still.
Sorry, you can’t use that as an excuse.
Like, you either have to know or you don’t do it.
Or that, like two, you can’t just be like, oops.
Like, didn’t realize that.
You knew there could be a chance that someone would be there.
They were giving a lot of passes.
Obviously the Rahan were way better than the Christening,
but like they’re giving a ton of passes
to the Ruhan, I thought.
I was gonna ask for a favorite scene,
but one thing this book was missing
were some fun action sequences.
Like we’re talking about a military situation
on another planet against different types of aliens.
I feel like there should have been like a cool ground battle
or space battle.
It felt much more like day in the life,
which I thought was cool.
You’re kind of just falling along.
Even though he was lucky, a lot.
He seemed like he kept on having interesting stories,
but it did seem like not a lot was happening,
which I think made it better, honestly,
that it was just like day in the life of what it’s like
to be here and what the atmosphere is like.
I thought that if it was just action the whole time,
I’d be like, all right, whatever.
I actually liked that.
I liked it as well.
Most of the time I didn’t like it.
I just felt that there was a lot of exposition,
which I enjoyed because I wanted to know about the characters.
I wanted to know about this, the political situation,
like the galactic political situation,
but it got to be a lot of that
and then there wasn’t enough action for a military thing,
especially when in my mind,
I’m just thinking Starship Troopers.
So I was like, you know,
where’s the battle against the giant bug, you know,
or where’s the flying bugs that come in and start messing people up?
I did like the prison escape where they were like,
all right, fuck these guys, let’s work turn them against our allies.
I was like, all right, there we go.
That’s a good one,
especially because it leads up with the conversation with the major
when he’s like, yeah, the Christina fucked,
like they’re doing all this fucked up shit.
It’s like, oh, okay, I agree with you.
And then all of a sudden they’re escaping.
And then Joe’s putting that, the people together
to shoot down a couple of ships, which was cool.
I mean, this would make a great TV series.
I feel like it fills in the gaps of like,
oh shit, what would we do if there’s not action happening?
It’s like, oh, great, we can have this action story build here.
I think that’s a good point.
It would be a good TV series or like short mini series
because the book provides you all of the exposition type stuff
and then you can just, you know, fit in the action sequences.
I feel like that’s when book to TV or book to movie does it better
than when it’s like an action-packed book
and they have to fill it in with a story
and they totally fucked that up.
I’d say pick your character, but it’s really one or two.
Are you Team Skippy or are you Team Joe?
I’m Team Joe, although the ending, like I said,
and I was kind of annoyed with him,
but other than that, yeah, Joe’s the man.
I’m Team Joe.
Okay. Yeah, I’m Team Jippy.
I’m just gonna steal it.
It’s not fair.
Yeah, cause like they’re so good together.
Okay, yeah, I think the power couple.
Yeah, the story got a lot more fun
once they were together and bouncing stuff off of each other.
I liked Joe anyways.
He’s a good manor.
He also took what my advice of treat everyone like they’re adults
and that’s why Skippy got along with them.
He’s like, everyone else is not treating me
like I’m a real person and you are.
So that’s why when I go up to babies
and I’m talking to him like that,
they respect me also more.
So see, see, you know, it’s, it always comes back to that.
Yeah.
You’re the niece’s favorite uncle now
cause you’re like, hello, how old are you?
You’re six.
That’s a good number.
I like the number six.
When I go up to my, hey, how’s it going?
And I just talk to them about something they like
and then get out of the way.
Cause I know they don’t really want to talk to me.
Well, you just get to find some video games
or whatever they’re doing and you just go in there
and you like crush it and they’re like,
wow, you’re the best video game player ever.
Well, my niece is already read.
She’s like eight or nine.
She’s already all the Harry Potter’s,
all the Percy Jacks.
She just reads everything.
And I’m like, oh, I can like talk to her on that level.
Eventually she’s gonna, once she turns like 12,
she’s gonna be above my knowledge.
Yeah, exactly.
Like she’s like, she’s gonna be like,
Uncle Keith, what did you think about Dash Stoyevsky?
It’s like flowers for Algernon right now.
I’m like, at that point, we’re both the same.
Doctor’s level.
She’s eventually gonna be a genius.
Oh, so good.
Quick little about the author because Craig Allison
is you didn’t know was from Springfield, Massachusetts.
Oh, wow.
So we gotta respect that.
And another sci-fi writer who started writing
on his free time self published this book, Columbus Day.
And because of the way it was received,
which was with high praise,
it allowed him to write full time
because he got greenlit for more books in the series.
And as we said, the audio book is narrated by RC Bray,
who does like hell of a Downies accent.
I know it is a little Boston-y.
Have you seen, and I’m just gonna spoil one of my loves
because it is the narrator himself
because I feel like he brings Joe Bishop
and Skippy to life, especially Joe.
He just makes him seem like an every man kind of guy.
But I was wondering if you’d ever seen the show
Downies Dickerin.
It’s like a history channel show.
I’ve never even heard of that.
If you’ve seen like American pickers,
like those guys go around and buy stuff for cheap
or whatever, like old trinkets and stuff,
it’s pretty much that, but it’s in Maine.
So it’s a bunch of guys who basically,
there’s like a local Craigslist, but in paper form.
That’s just for Maine.
And they go to the diner and they open it up
and they try to find these, they go around town
and they negotiate or Dicker for the goods they’re looking for.
But they all have these phenomenal Maine accents.
If you haven’t seen it, it’s worth just like checking out
a clip of it because they’re pretty good.
So it is, you can tell the difference
to be in Boston and Maine?
Yeah, like if you’ve listened,
if you watch that show for sure,
I think he does a pretty good job here.
But if you went to a YouTube and just watched a quick video
of what their thing is,
you’d see they’re similar but different.
It’s almost like Boston accent,
but less trashy, more country.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
The RC break was one of my loves,
but what else did you love about it?
I was already excited that it kind of in the opening,
but it did remind me a lot of Project Hell Mary
and that type of writing in terms like dad jokes,
kind of poking fun at stuff,
but it wasn’t just a ton of made up science.
It was like, remember how we talked
about the one negative for Project Hell.
It’s like, I needed some of those dumb to come in
and like explain it in those terms.
Like that’s what they did with this book.
They’re like, all right.
And then I’m just gonna call this a, you know,
these guys beavers.
I’m gonna call this.
Yeah.
It’s like, oh, we have a Humvee, but it’s,
but it’s theirs.
We’re gonna call it a Hamvee.
Yeah. Right.
I thought it was clever in the fact that it wasn’t,
the humor wasn’t super forced.
It was much better story.
And like I said, you felt like you were in the day
of the world, a life of that
and made it feel realistic.
Whereas a lot of that Project Hell Mary
and that stuff were my biggest complaints
as like this is stupid.
So this was more like the Simpsons to you
and Project Hell Mary was more like Big Bang Theory.
Yeah, Big Bang Theory or no, it’s probably more like-
Frasier?
Frasier, exactly.
That’s awesome.
Exactly.
Were you just like, all right, these jokes
I kind of know are coming, but it’s like,
you’re like rolling your eyes at them.
I haven’t seen Frasier, but people like it.
I don’t know.
I used to, obviously.
It’s not around anymore.
One of the things I loved,
and we kind of talked about it,
was the Joe and Skippy relationship.
What’s interesting is the internet,
when I looked at these reviews,
were kind of split on this relationship.
Some people found it endearing and funny,
and others thought the relationship was like,
one dad joke after another,
interspersed with pop culture references.
And I agree on both accounts.
I don’t know why they were saying it in a negative
that it’s one dad joke after another,
interspersed with pop culture references,
because one, I enjoy a good dad joke
as much as the next guy, who everyone should.
And pop culture references are wonderful.
So they’re going back and forth on this stuff.
It just seemed like they had a great rapport about it.
And I found it endearing and funny,
and I did enjoy the content as well.
So I guess some people wanted more serious stuff.
Yeah, isn’t that like how Bill Simmons became famous?
That’s what he would do.
He would just do pop culture references,
and then like sports and dad jokes combined?
Like that’s what he was, right?
Yeah, maybe less of the dad jokes,
but definitely the pop culture references.
His stuff was almost in some ways,
and I mean this in a positive, not a negative,
but like a BuzzFeed thing before BuzzFeed
in the sense of which NFL teams are Sopranos characters.
You know, that kind of thing.
Yeah, yeah, I see what you’re saying.
But it was also like 6,000 words on that
versus BuzzFeed thing.
Like what, yeah, versus BuzzFeed,
like here’s a picture of that person.
Yeah, BuzzFeed was terrible content,
but the idea I feel like is what Simmons would do.
He’d use the Sopranos as a vehicle
for the sports knowledge that he wanted to talk about.
So, I mean, I used to love that back in the page two days
when he’d do mail bags, but unfortunately
that doesn’t happen anymore.
He used to do the wire stuff a lot.
How are you in the wire so far?
Where are you?
Oh, I just finished it.
Oh, did you?
It’s a hot take.
I don’t know if you agree with this or not,
but after rewatching it, I do want to say the season five,
I think I place after season two.
I don’t think it’s that, it doesn’t hold up
nearly as much as I’ve ever had.
Did you survive the last season?
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I think season five might actually be the worst season.
I’m saying, yeah.
Actually, I’m having a tough time
because we started watching it recently
because I talked about that we were going to start
and you were watching it and I was like,
all right, and Carolina hadn’t seen it.
We’d watch the Sopranos.
So I was like, all right, we should start doing this.
We’re into the first season.
Fucking love it.
I mean, I just love it so much
because I’ve seen it a few times
and so I know what’s coming to some degree
and there’s so much that’s actually going on
in terms of the dialogue between characters
that it is hard to follow sometimes.
And then you put that in that there’s also
a urban dialect going on
that is sometimes hard to understand.
Think about later, who’s the woman gangster that comes in?
She’s like, yeah, she’s a real Baltimoreian.
Yeah, she is a real gangster actually.
So she’s hard to understand.
We’re on season two now and I really like season two.
How did you feel about the overall political structure in this?
Like, were you interested?
Is this a love or a hate for you in the,
the Kristanger working for these people
who are working for these people?
And you know, that kind of not geopolitical
but like galactic political situation.
I mean, the Klein stuff just,
it made perfect sense to me.
I mean, that’s what Vietnam was and that’s what-
Oh, you mean like the proxy war type stuff?
Yeah, there’s just proxy wars.
They’re like, we’re too powerful to fight each other,
which is exactly what US and China
and US and Russia do already.
No, right now too.
And that’s gonna last forever.
And so we’ll just fight in Ukraine.
The two big players aren’t going head to head.
So it makes perfect sense to me
that they would do that also at the,
what’s the universal scale,
galactic scale.
Galactic scale, yeah.
I think it’s a great use of an allegory
for what you’re saying.
Like this is exactly what superpowers do
in this world and it just expanded to a galactic situation.
They don’t give a shit about the civilians either
or like the people that are.
Yeah, the collateral damage just doesn’t matter
and they’ll go into a country or in this case, a planet
and have a little fight over it that really doesn’t matter.
It’s more just for posturing.
They’ll let everyone die and then they leave
and the place is more softened.
Leave it in a rubble.
Yeah, down it, you came in.
So I liked that as an allegory.
So I did enjoy that, but I didn’t like how each race
just goes up to another race.
That’s just more technologically advanced,
which I know is what happens.
Like we were talking in our conversation with Brian Mora
that who wrote The Righteous Arrows,
talking about the Soviet war in Afghanistan,
you know, like us giving them stinger missiles
really flipped the tide in some of the ways
for the Afghanis to start taking down Russian helicopters.
So I understand that technological thing is there
and in humanity, but if you’re dealing with aliens,
you kind of have a blank check.
So why not put something out there that’s different?
Give them some sort of power or ability
that differentiates them from the other ones
because the Ruhan were basically just human hamsters
and the Kristang were basically just like human lizards
and they got the technology that they took from like
their overlords who took over the other ones
who then like rolled up to the collective.
I could have done a little more creativity
with the different races.
Well, like Star Wars do they have?
Other than the forest is like, the different races have.
But in Star Wars, I feel like it’s more of a melting pot
of so many different like races than this.
But like what would you want the races to be different?
I guess, what would you have them do differently?
I don’t know.
Some like telekinesis or something along those lines.
They did say that the next people up
have more of like the alien people.
I can’t remember what they were,
have like a sort of like a hive mind type situation
which are like, oh, okay, that could be interesting.
And maybe we’ll learn more if we read more.
You know, I don’t really know.
There’s 16 books by the way.
Yeah, there are.
Which is my first eight super long series, hate it.
So the Expeditionary Force is now 16 books
because it came out, the 16th book came out
like December of last year.
And did I enjoy Columbus Day?
Yes.
Do I wanna read 15 more to find out what happens to Earth
and the alien forces trying to destroy it?
No, not really.
Like there are some questions obviously I want answered
after reading this book.
I’d like to know if Skippy finds the collective.
I’d like to know how that works out.
I’d like to know what happens to Joe and the crew.
But if it’s something that is going to take that many books
to actually get to, I’m not gonna do that.
I kinda like when series, if they’re gonna be long,
this Joe story is like a three part series.
Kind of like Dune in a way where Dune is like
a couple stories and then all of a sudden
it’s like 2000 years later.
Yeah, there’s like Paul’s still there
or whatever the case in his spoiler alert.
But it’s kind of a totally different story.
We get closure from that.
This, I didn’t really necessarily get any closure from.
It was just like, okay, that story happened.
They closed a wormhole and now like
they’re gonna find the collective.
It was just like an episode and a TV show.
I definitely agree.
I mean, I’m trying to think of any series
that go that long other than like a Mitch Rap type series
where it’s just the next, on to the next story.
It’s like a different story, yeah.
Right, right.
But like Harry Potter was sevens,
but that was like obviously, and for those listening,
book 100, we’re starting the series.
But yeah, I think it’s rare to have a series
that’s that long that you can stay engaged with
unless there’s a definitive ending.
Hey, this is gonna be six books.
Harry’s is every book is a year of his schooling
and you know, he fights a different version of Voldemort
at each one.
So it makes sense.
Yeah, the one hate I had was just really,
I didn’t think there was a ton of suspense,
mainly because the way he wrote it was like,
everything was going great for the plan
and then things fell apart.
So we walked and it’s like, you can’t lean it off of that.
Like, you know, leave some suspense at the end,
even the first chapter there were like,
the allies we thought were our allies were actually
our enemies.
So like three fourths into the book,
I’m like, yeah, obviously now we know
they’re their enemies.
Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that
because the whole thing was written in retrospect
from a first person perspective, from Joe’s perspective,
but even like the whole story was written retrospectively
and then individually as things happened,
those were written retrospectively,
almost like it was a diary entry at the end of the day.
Yeah, so I would love some little bit more suspense
where they’re just telling you like almost like it’s real time
because obviously I was like, all right,
so what’s gonna go bad now?
When they didn’t do that, I was definitely surprised.
Cool, but like if they were like,
everything was going bad until I met in an AI
and that was in chapter one, I’d been like,
oh, this sucks, now have to just wait for this part.
So I think that AI thing was like, oh, that’s pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
The only other real hate that I had,
and I kind of talked about it,
was that the rest of the characters
are just minimally developed if at all.
There are a bunch of characters,
and I assume it’s 16 books,
so we better flesh out these characters at some point,
and it makes a lot of sense for us to be fully entrenched
with Joe, it’s from his perspective.
The story is about him and Skippy for the most part,
so and about his leadership,
so like how he puts people, puts people around,
and the reason why this book we liked it so much,
I think, is because it’s 300 pages.
It’s a short, fun read,
so we don’t really need the side quest
on each of the characters,
but I think we could have taken out his sexy time
at the beginning, like with Shana.
That whole thing could have kind of been cut
to really get more from Chang,
his like pretty much right hand man,
and the pilot who, I can’t remember her name,
but also seemed to be like his right hand lady.
Yeah, I just, I thought some of this stuff was probably,
didn’t need to be in there,
and more about the characters that we see now,
unless he’s about to go back to Paradise
and like save Shana or something like that.
My only lingering question was,
I really need to know about the collective,
because it seems like they’re all knowing, all powerful.
Like the whole thing about Skippy,
not being sure if he can’t remember stuff,
or if it was deleted,
I feel like that’s kind of interesting,
like I wanna know about that,
I wanna know more about that situation,
so I might just have to go down like a wiki dive,
and check it out, but, all right,
who did you have as Skippy?
Skippy, I had Ryan Reynolds.
Same, no way, really.
Yeah, same, same, I was like,
put a little like tinny voice on Ryan Reynolds, and perfect.
Yeah, all right, well, let’s keep it two for two,
you have for Joy Bishop.
I had Mac Wahlberg.
Oh, okay, all right.
He can do the Boston accent,
which is pretty much a downy-stax accent,
we know that he’s a regular type guy,
but he’s also jacked out of his gourd.
Yes, he’s a little old, but-
You’re the guy that’s personality with him?
I think it’d be good, right?
Yeah, he’s funny.
Yeah, he’s still got like a younger face,
and also at the same time,
he’s an everyman, but you can also see him as a leader,
so, and it takes on more of a fun story,
which is kind of what this is,
as opposed to like a Rockam-Sacham robot story.
I’m similar, John Krasinski.
I think he can be funny.
The first thing that came to my head actually.
And Boston.
Yeah, so I think he’d be,
because he actually can be a serious action actor,
which is proven with the Tom Clancy stuff.
Oh, he had 13 hours, yeah.
Funny you said that,
because that was the first one that came to my head,
but then I thought he’s just like a little,
I don’t know, like a little two.
Too clean cut?
Too clean, yeah, too serious.
I just envision this more as like a fun series than-
I mean, he did the office.
I know, I know, I know, but just,
I see it more like a fun, but bad.
You know, it would be a better movie with John Krasinski,
but I just don’t see it as a better movie.
Columbus Day, the first book of the Expeditionary Force series,
Keith, would you recommend it to listeners?
Yeah, I think, I mean, the 16 book things
is definitely tough to get over,
but I think this is like one of the ones
that you could buy the series, keep them in your library,
and you need to grab a book really quick
to go out to the beach for, you pick it back up,
and I think you could jump back into this series,
you don’t really need to know a lot
or remember a lot of stuff that happened.
You jump back in, you feel like you’re back home,
you’re drinking a beer with Joey,
you can fish up and you’re back into the saddle.
Even though it’s long and there’s a lot of books,
I do think, and that’s like the bromer we always use,
would you read the next one?
I definitely would, so I would recommend it.
Yeah, it’s like putting on easy listening radio
or something like that, where you don’t have
to really pay attention to it,
in that I agree with you wholeheartedly.
If I got this on Audible,
Audible offered an option, like, hey,
download the whole series for two credits,
I’d be like, oh, sure, of course.
And then as I’m in between books or whatever,
I’d pick it up and you’d be like,
oh, what’s going on with Joe Bishop and the guy?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, you might have to remember where you were,
but you don’t care that much.
Like, I’m trying to not undersell it
because I didn’t like love this book,
but it’s fun, you know, it’s a fun read.
So if I was in the car and I was like,
I don’t want to listen to the radio,
what am I gonna do?
I don’t want to listen to this other serious book
I’m reading, it’s like, oh, let’s just have some fun
with Joe and the guys and gals.
And then go out and read that and see what Joe
and Scippie’s travels are up to.
So yeah, I’d recommend it.
It’s not gonna make, you know,
it’s not gonna make my top 15 or top 20, I don’t think,
but it was fun.
It was fun to read.
I appreciate the recommendation, for sure.
Keith, what do we got coming up?
I have another interview coming up,
Scorched by Don Silver coming up to H-Dory.
So it should be an interesting read
and we’ll have an interview for that.
And then after that, we have City on Fire,
Don Winslow.
And then we have Get Your Harry Potter series,
warmed up, we’re doing the series, Book 100,
or Podcast 100, we’re starting it.
We’re gonna have so many fans by then, it’s gonna be insane.
Wait, wait, wait, we have Scorched City on Fire.
Also, by the way, two Don’s.
We got Don’s back to back, then Harry Potter.
Like that’s the only one.
No, no, no, no.
We’re at, this book is 94.
The next would be Scorched would be 95.
Then City on Fire would be 96.
And then we have basically three books to four Harry Potter.
I mean, Harry Potter, when we start the summer,
God, we’re really fucking lining it up perfectly, huh?
I’m actually gonna read the book itself, I think.
I got my old child copies.
So yeah, I got the beach down the road.
I might have to go quit my job and become a wife card again
and just get the books ready to go for the life card season.
That’s why I read all of them.
Oh, of course.
All right, well, that was Columbus Day,
Expeditionary Force Volume One.
We’re not gonna do the other 15 books at any time soon
because it looks like we got a big plan ahead of us,
but we’ll catch you next time for Scorched
and the interview associated with it.
Keith, it’s been fun, buddy.
Yes, sir.
All right.
Good stuff.
Bye now.
I know.
All right.