Heir to the Empire – Timothy Zahn – Episode 59

The Buddies nerd out and finally discuss one of their favorite genres: Star Wars (yes, it is its own genre). This time covering Timothy Zahn’s, Heir to the Empire. The book takes place five years after Episode 6 and features all of our favorite characters: Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie (or as Leia would call him, some random alien).  The Buddies discuss important Star Wars topics such as: rooting for the underdogs (in this case the Empire), if it’s normal to be attracted to Star Wars drawings, and whether or not the Skywalker family are all bigots. So bring your lightsabers, force powers (although you won’t need them much in this book), and X-wing owner’s manual, and join us in a galaxy far, far away…

Intro: (0:00-2:57)
Stock Up/Down (2:58-22:55)
Favorite Scene/Character (22:56-25:32)
Love/Hate (25:33-38:13)
Casting the Movie (38:14-40:39)
Conclusion (40:40-42:28)

 Next Book: TOMORROW, AND TOMORROW, AND TOMORROW by GABRIELLE ZEVIN

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

welcome buddy book club I’m Dylan here
in a podcasting Studio close close near
with my wing Commander Keith what’s up
buddy whatever you do to this pod no
sardonic talk sardonic-ness will not be
allowed in this podcast okay what is
sardonic did you not notice that the
whole book that that sardonic was used
maybe 50 times grimly mocking or cynical
uh here’s the Buddy book club we’re
breaking down best sellers and this week
we’ll be discussing Star Wars heir to
the Empire by Timothy Zahn and we won’t
be doing it sardonically if you’d like
to recommend a book for us to read to
reach out to us about any past episodes
you can visit our website
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your podcasts so please download And
subscribe Keith heir to the Empire you
threw this out there and I love Star
Wars I know you’re a huge Star Wars guy
I honestly haven’t experienced much of
the Star Wars Universe outside of the
nine movies and yeah the Mandalorian and
Rogue one and Andor you’ve watched him I
started watching Endor but honestly
though sgf isn’t or the wife excuse me
isn’t really a big fan so I couldn’t
continue Pandora I think is the best
thing that Star Wars has released since
I think it’s better than Rogue one and I
liked it I watched the first like
episode and a half and she was asleep
and I just kept watching it stayed up
past my bedtime Mom sorry but I I really
enjoyed it you know usually stick around
when she goes to bed it’s time for
special movies and I’m not talking about
pornography I’m I’m talking about like
scary that she doesn’t watch no yeah
heir of the empire was published in
1991. did you ever hear about this
growing up I think I saw some people in
my school reading Star Wars lore but I
could barely read at that point so
didn’t even cross my mind it’s like a
book option yeah you’re looking at the
cover being like that logo looks
familiar but what did those words mean
but yes okay it was published in 1991. I
hadn’t heard of it either it was
seemingly a big thing on the scene at
the time for the Star Wars fans it takes
place in the year nine ABY and it’s five
years after Return of the Jedi Vader and
the emperor dead the Rebel Alliance has
set up a new government the new Republic
the fight’s not over though the remnants
of the Imperial Starfleet are mustering
their forces behind a new leader Grand
Admiral thrawn and before we get into
the stock up stock down so those out
there in case they’re concerned it is
not canon the Lucas people came out and
said yes you can make this but it’s not
canon
okay let’s get into stock up I’m gonna
start with stock up because I don’t want
you to steal it from me first stock up
Wayland AKA
buddy why didn’t you tell me the emperor
kept a secret treasure Trove in your
hometown you know a lot of talent a lot
of a lot of people have come out of
Wayland because of this you know that’s
what I’m hearing yeah you spent your
whole time under the water and the pools
shaving your legs trying to break
weyland’s swim records with your swim
cap on and your nose plugger thing and
instead of looking for the emperor’s
treasure we’re sitting there right in
front of you yeah no we were protecting
it what do you mean they kept saying
Wayland did it honestly just threw me
off look Keith up in this uh in his
yearbook do some Googling for all those
people out there find out who he is
sending messages got it cut that we
can’t cut it because it’s one of my
stock UPS
oh I got you burnt uh what did you have
for stock up Leia is a bigot whoa Theory
the theory that she is the theory
this book really solidifies it for me
you’ve seen uh you know obviously
episode four where they don’t give
Chewbacca a medal it’s well documented
yes of course he does not give the medal
to Chewbacca but now we Flash Forward
what says 10 years at least four that
probably happened five years yeah
because it’s nine ABY so they’ve been
friends for nine years yeah he was
chewbacco is probably the best man I was
gonna say he was probably the best
creature at the wedding yet they go to
visit kashyyk which is Chewbacca’s home
planet and Leia doesn’t know any of the
language even though she’s been friends
with her or him for nine years doesn’t
learn to hola or anything of the
language she knows the language no no
hold on she does she’s not like fluent
but she’s can speak
she doesn’t know what Chewbacca is
saying ever yes because Chewbacca has a
lisp no they say that Chewbacca speaks
normal
oh I’m sorry yeah that’s right the other
guy I mean Han knows what Chewbacca is
saying yeah he knows the language so it
doesn’t know any of their Customs
doesn’t know any other culture doesn’t
that learned anything about them not one
thing about them it it’s a little bit
weird to be like imagine if you had like
a friend that was Italian or French or
Japanese and you’ve known them for your
whole life or for 10 years you’ve been
really good friends of them and they’re
like you go to their house and you’re
like oh I didn’t know you did any of
this stuff I didn’t know anything about
you it’s like what like you’ve been
friends with me for this this long you
don’t know anything give me chopsticks
and you start trying to have a
lightsaber duel
what are these things I’ve never seen
these before it’s like bro I’ve eaten
these with these 100 times as I’m gonna
Pat myself on the pack right here uh my
best friend from home is Japanese and
like I spoke his parents came from Japan
so like really Japanese can you go to
his house and you’re like what are you
guys saying why are you speaking like
that what’s happening what is this
language your office under speaking his
grandmother looked at me and says
doesn’t mean Japanese one night at
dinner and I said pardon me I don’t
speak Japanese and she said you handle
your chopsticks better than hayato and I
oh wow
yeah yeah yeah
so shout out to my girl Bubba Bubba Sama
we love you we’re rip what really
grinded my gears mostly about this was
that she the term alien is thrown around
the book a lot and I initially thought
it was just for the the new like race or
whatever that that comes it was trying
to attack lay our kidnap her no gray
they don’t know what they are so they
they’re like that’s alien to me which
makes sense like you just don’t know
what it is but then she visits kashyyk
and she calls the wookies aliens so
she’s basically defines anything that’s
not human as alien which you’re visiting
their home planet You’re an Alien what
are you talking about aliens it was so
disrespectful in my opinion I I
would be
somewhat of a racial epithet because
like you said alien should be for more
of like the unknown as to where if you
know them like you know they are Wookies
like that is what they are they’re not
aliens yeah like aliens like an unnamed
race because you just aren’t familiar
with it and I get it if Chewbacca came
to Earth and he was the only person that
was like him you’d be like oh that’s an
alien I get it but now you’re literally
you’re in their home planet you you
can’t be like little your aliens around
me like no you’re an alien the
definition of aliens like some of this
foreign country you’re alien to them
yeah just last thing is that Luke is
like the most patient is their brother
but like still it runs in the family
look at the most patient like you know I
won’t strike you down Darth or the
emperor won’t fight them at all because
he’s like you know I’m about
non-violence and all these things lo and
behold these other assassins come he’s
chopping them down left and right
murdering them like his dad would do
like he’s like they just hate I think
this whole family it started with Anakin
when he went to uh the sand people and
just yeah
yeah and he’s just doing it now he’s
just there’s no like thought of uh well
I don’t want to kill these people
because you know they’re they’re people
too he’s just like oh they’re aliens I’m
just gonna rip them apart and murder
their whole families you know it’s like
wow this really runs in the family the
Skywalkers I always found that
interesting about the Jedi about like
Luke obviously not wanting to fight
those people and there was this level of
like monk Vibes to the Jedi in the
movies but they obviously had to kill
people right like they have lightsabers
they’re they’re killing people for sure
even Obi-Wan when he’s in the Cantina
like slices some dude’s arm off like get
off watch out
I think they obviously kill a lot of
people Jedi uh I think they do it when
it needs to be done I’m gonna support
your Leia but I don’t think I can
support your your Luke there okay I
think stink is more of a family thing
yeah yeah they were taught it’s just
it’s in there it’s in their blood it’s
in their blood yeah you know they got
Confederate flag tattoos off on their
shoulders get these aliens out of here
that’s what they said she’s saying the
whole time are you insinuating that all
southern people are racist no that was
my uh European accent
you are terrible at accent so I believe
thank you my next stock up is managing
hashtag managing
so it can it can be argued that the
emperor and Vader as his proxy lost the
war against the rebels due to bad
management they Michael Scott did it
they didn’t delegate well they LED using
fear and condescension and they let
their egos get in the way of taking care
of the Imperial Fleet and their Holdings
which is really what you need to do in a
time of War not thrawn though this
thrawn guy he’s open to other people’s
ideas he knows when to cut his losses
yes yes he may use his nogri bodyguard
Rook to murder subordinates here and
there but he’s just holding people
accountable for their actions
he is a prudent businessman he murders
people what they need to be murdered to
show hey this stuff isn’t going to be
tolerated this kind of level of
negligence and we got to step up our
game and there you go he’s the best
coach out there is really it and pelions
even like oh when he sees thrawn back
out of the fight at the end he’s like oh
you know what maybe thrawn would have
been better than having Vader or the
emperor at the Battle for Endor so guys
figure it out managing you know it’s
it’s not that hard you just gotta
delegate you gotta you gotta lead you
gotta say hey you know what if you have
to if I ask you to mop up [ __ ] it’s
because I would mop up [ __ ] or I have
mopped up [ __ ] you know that’s that’s
what thrawn’s coming from yeah how do
you feel about Throne that’s a great
call and I have a stock down that’s very
similar to what you’re saying here but I
was on a softball team this is my
favorite softball team Ron was on your
softball team no but thrawn’s mentality
was exactly exactly what we had in this
softball team this is a really well
oiled everyone is Unified together
hustle team one of my most favorite team
sports teams I’ve played on and our
motto on the team was we will absolutely
tolerate physical mistakes physical
errors that happens yeah bubble ball
that’s okay we will absolutely not
tolerate mental errors not hustling to
first base not knowing where to be not
knowing what to do that is not allowed
so that’s exactly what he did he said
hey everyone makes errors everyone makes
physical mistakes but mental not
learning not definitely being taught I
have to correct that and that’s why
someone has to die and I said yeah
that’s a great management so did you
have like the dogs
yeah we just murder people
yeah yeah okay well I want to unpack
this a little bit
ah did you did you guys have a
conversation about this like was this
like everyone hey guys get together like
and who said it who comes in is like hey
mental mistakes aren’t allowed it starts
the head coaches as Dr Hogan obviously
and you just respect him through and
through but one of the best players on
the team are the ones that are hustling
the most and the ones that doing the
little things best players on the team
wouldn’t go for home runs they’d go for
ground balls between short and third
because they knew that would be it’s a
good like way to operate on offense
rather than trying to hit up deep ball
that’s gonna be caught most likely so
when they’re doing that that’s just the
tone when the guy that can hit home run
decides I’m not gonna home run because
the team doesn’t need me to that I
appreciate that so it was more of a lead
by example than explicitly said yeah I
was the worst one on the team obviously
so they’re they’re really just talking
about me uh stock up for me is Art so oh
yeah not not a big art guy myself unless
the art is films and literature those
are my that’s my wheelhouse for art I
wish I I was but you know I’ve been to
fancy places like Rome and whatnot and
like walked through some artsy places
and to me it’s just it’s whatever or
even you know I go to the Museum of Fine
Arts in Boston and I’m just like I like
some of this is cool like I can I can
dig it
but supposedly if you understand a
culture’s art you’ll know everything
about that Society especially how to
crush it in the palm of your hands
so thrawn he’s a once again our boy
Throne on top of all cultures art which
is very surprising considering how many
different societies there must be out
there that you’re going to come in
contact with like there’s one in the
book he’s like oh I haven’t experienced
this person’s stuff it’s like what one
there’s probably thousands of galaxies
in the planets or whatnot he doesn’t
call them all aliens either by the way
no of course not so I guess if you are
able to understand at concert’s art
you’re gonna know everything about the
society and you really don’t need to
know anything else because you can kind
of know everything so I I gotta I gotta
step up my game it’s what I’m saying I
gotta step up my art game completely I’m
gonna go into like landscape art that’s
what I’m gonna look for it seems like
that would be more of it into the war
strategy of like how you how you see
things is how you would you know
landscape oh The Art of War double
meaning
Sun Tzu he knew it was up well I’m gonna
tie right into that mine’s a slightly
different thing yours is Art mine is
Star Wars art specifically specifically
drawings and non-canon drawings stock up
I did my research into uh these
characters after because I wanted to
learn a little bit more about the Star
Wars lore you went to the Wikipedia
Wikipedia did you have a little Gander
at the picture of Mara Jade by any
chance I didn’t no listen I’ve never
been into the you know the little anime
stuff if you will or any of that game
but I might change I might I might be
into it take a look at the picture of
Mario Jaden it might change your
perspective on things or just search
Mario Jade lots of stuff’s getting
spoiled right now for me so do you see
the picture oh look at the eyes kid I
mean if it doesn’t move for you I don’t
know like a almost like a painting but
it’s like a real life painting and she
kind of looks yeah she kind of looks
like an 80s porn star it changed my life
a little bit it made you move I
certainly got out of my seat I’ll put it
that way I guess she’s Jade Skywalker so
now I know that she’s got a little um
who’s the redhead in X-Men going for it
too you’re talking about Jean Gray you
talking about Jean Gray hello Jean Gray
a little crazy hours I like it
did you have any other uh stock UPS
besides Mario yeah it’s like an 80s porn
star it’s hilarious that you’re into
that you’re saying that in a negative
connotation I don’t get it no are you
not a little bit interested in what’s
behind those eyes
it looks like actually this photo if
we’re talking about the one from
Wikipedia she looks like a young young
Reba McIntyre oh that’s awful not even
close yeah it’s directly on point no all
right when you do a clip I want to
splice together this picture of Mara
Jade from Wookie Dum and a young Reba
McIntyre or even Reba from the show Reba
and I they look exactly the same uh did
you have any other stock UPS no more
stockups though well talk about your
stock down then oh stock down Sherlock
Holmes so you kind of already alluded to
it but Sherlock’s home’s ability to draw
conclusions from minute observations is
kind of what makes him who he is but
just watch some paintings one time for
me and you’ll [ __ ] figure this out
the other thing I kind of wanted to
mention and around this is that if you
told this same story from the
perspective of the Empire then they’d be
like the minute man they’d be like like
George Washington that’d be thrawn you
know like the guy that’s like fighting a
much bigger Army now a much bigger
resource country than the original
religion or Empire was like it’s being
desecrated that’s what’s happening so
thrawn is literally winning battles with
less people less resources he’s
inspirational
um he’s much better than Sherlock Holmes
so Sherlock Holmes stock down yeah one
man’s terrorist is another man’s Freedom
Fighter exactly I’ve talked about
hardcore history in the past in the past
on this podcast which is the best
podcast if you’re listening to us turn
it off and go listen to Hardcore History
you’ve also said that multiple times but
you know you do think about perspective
is everything when it comes to this
stuff and especially this story I
actually don’t know what thrawn’s
principles are you know like what are
they fighting for you know it seems like
they’re fighting for some enslavement
aspects which we don’t support you know
sometimes the little guy you gotta roof
for him you just it just it comes
naturally it’s like he’s got nobody he’s
doing surprise attacks left and right
it’s Bunker Hill over here excuse me
they fought on breeds Hill I just I
really did enjoy enjoy throw around my
first stock down are and speaking of not
enjoying the the good people Jedis an
unintelligent tree salamander makes your
powers obsolete
what’s cool about being a Jedi anymore
Luke the whole book Luke is just a guy
yeah just another guy with a lightsaber
it’s like Ron Jeremy later in life when
he needs Viagra it just doesn’t make any
sense
Honestly though I do have to ask you I
personally hate the Achilles heel type
cliche I didn’t like it when it came and
I don’t really love Superman much
anymore I did as a child but she was
like oh there’s Kryptonite there’s this
one thing that turns all of your powers
off or whatever the case is I hated that
I understand it like the things I like
is in Harry Potter like you lose your
wand oh like you can’t cast spells but
you’re still a magical being and like
you can still sometimes do magical [ __ ]
but it makes sense like your wand is
what you need that makes sense it gets
away from you but just inventing this
tree salamander creature that you can
just like put in your pocket and it all
of a sudden if a Jedi is around you it
doesn’t work I hate that yeah I agree
with that I don’t care for it it’s so
easy it’s just so it’s boring it’s easy
it doesn’t make any sense to me like if
you’re gonna give me a book after I’ve
seen Luke not really even be a Jedi we
didn’t even really in the movies we
didn’t really see him be a Jedi a little
bit here and there you know he’s still
learning so now it’s five years later
you assumed his Jedi prowess has
expanded yeah and you think his
confidence would grow a little bit
instead he’s like I don’t know how to
teach very well it’s like oh just go to
a community college or something type a
couple courses like come on Jesus they
didn’t really explore why the why of
that because I assume Luke was concerned
in some of the ways that Luke’s
concerned in the later movies when it’s
right his concern is I’m going to teach
someone and they’re going to become go
to the dark side like I’m going to give
them all this knowledge and they’re
going to go to the dark side it happened
to Obi-Wan you know he’s seen visions of
it happening with him in kylo Ren so
that makes sense like his concern for
that
but they don’t really say all they say
is what you said is like he’s like I
don’t know how to teach I don’t know
what to do it’s like buddy just start
from the get-go you know just just start
from the beginning and go there like
teach them what you know it’s as simple
as that so him like you said Being not
really super confident and then also not
having Jedi powers
and not showing us those Jedi Powers
because that’s what I want to see all I
saw from him was convincing a guard to
let him through and doing a couple flips
in the movies it’s like okay those are
cool but now let’s see badass Luke and
instead we got no Jedi Powers Yeah yeah
we got mechanic Luke we’re all sudden
the Martian all over again and Luke’s
stuck in his X-Wing and he’s like so
first I checked the
um
first I checked the hydraulic
calibrators and they weren’t working so
I said R2 R2 well how do we fix the
wings it’s like oh my God so I I really
just didn’t like Luke at all on this I
said the same thing Leia’s whole story
was awful there was like no need for it
anytime she went to like a new place
like I’m going over here to like do this
then she didn’t do any of that and then
just got like got into a fight scene and
then it’s like oh no and I’m gonna go
over here and do that oh my God we got
into another scene where I’m fighting so
it’s like right like we get it like
you’re not doing anything the whole book
though like your whole thing is just to
get get to a place and then get attacked
then leave then get to a place and get
attacked and leave and Leia was always
Punchy in the movies you know she was
fighting back like no like you know she
stood up for herself even her on too
Hanukkah was saying sweetheart in a good
way and I was like oh that’s gross you
know when he’s saying sweetheart
sardonically oh hey I love it I wish
their relationship still had a little
bit but a bite in a cute way yeah and
then you get some like you know scenes
of them and some cartoons with it you
know then I’d be in I mean wait what
Mara Jade is entered from a stage left
yeah I just thought I wanted more from
the character did you have any of the
stock Downs last one was just enemies to
lovers Trope stock down we were just
mentioning it I liked the cute Han and
Leia I don’t like you no you you don’t
like me type thing but like when Luke
and Mark Jade my girl start doing this
I’m like I know Luke’s supposed to be a
Jedi and that’s what’s basically a
priest you’re not supposed to get
married or anything but he’s gonna marry
this girl isn’t he and then lo and
behold I look in the wiki the lore or
whatever he gets married I’m like oh so
they’re not I just saw that her last
name was Skyward they’re not related he
marries her no yeah in the Star Wars
Universe you’re not allowed to get
together with someone unless you’re like
in a third grade playground like level
level attraction or you’re just like I
don’t like you it’s like well they’re
getting together yeah that’s it
quick favorite scene did you have one
they’re all coming together at the one
base and he’s like hiding Luke in the
the closet and r2d suits in the closet
and Han Solo yeah I thought Luke married
Kate McMorrow
you stayed in the closet like I
mentioned uh but they’re all together
I’m like oh [ __ ] this is kind of coming
together now like all the characters are
meeting and then didn’t really end up
the way I wanted it to but when they
didn’t realize that Luke was actually in
the [ __ ] that’s like classic Star Wars
right there you know I mean where
they’re all in the same place they’re
all somehow ended up there and it’s like
the world are all colliding that’s like
perfect Star Wars but it didn’t really
work out that way I like the build up
but yeah I honestly don’t know I don’t
know
okay I think maybe our introduction to
thrawn in the sense of you know who is
this guy what is he about and you start
to figure it out and you say oh okay
like this is a cool character like this
is if they’re going to create someone
from thin air and I knew ahead of time
that this was a Trilogy and you didn’t
have to have a power yeah exactly he was
just his powers were like Batman’s
powers there’s a really strategic knows
how to move [ __ ] around I like like that
I think when they went to Wayland to see
your swim meet in 2004 no when they went
to Wayland that that part was kind of
cool because he didn’t bat an eye and
everyone else was like freaking out and
he was like no I know exactly what’s
gonna happen here so he just seemed like
a worthy adversary and I was down with
that it wasn’t snoke it wasn’t this like
thing in midair who doesn’t Dear Sir
mean anything
I think probably character-wise we both
like thrawn for I like tylon Thailand
card Talent Cod I liked him too he was
Han like but actually like ran a very
successful business he’s like a mix
between Han and Lando yeah he’s like Han
and Lando combined I was like I like
this yeah he can build a huge
conglomerate corporation like Lando but
also has the like quick guile of uh-huh
I like that yeah quick guile nicely done
I I don’t even know that makes sense but
here it is yeah I liked him too I was
actually if I was interested in
following up in the future he’s a
character that I’d be interested to see
how it goes because he really was
playing both sides but in a way that
befit himself yet he still had some
level of like a moral code
okay let’s get into some uh love hate
would you love this probably isn’t like
the best love but a lot of the books
that I read that I’ve liked I get done
with it I’m like no that was great
reading and then I look back I’m like
that wasn’t that great of a book like a
story wasn’t that great like I’m like oh
can you give me an example one a lot of
the ones I’m thinking of are ones that
are psychological Thriller ones where
when you like talk about it out loud
after the fact you’re like oh I guess I
really didn’t make a ton of you know
what I mean but you’re like well you’re
in it you’re like that you’re like
gripped you’re like in the whole time
like ready for it this book’s the
opposite where when I look back at it
I’m like this like I could see this
being a good movie if they just kind of
honed in on the characters honed in on
some of the more of the action scenes
but when I was reading it I was like
all right I gotta get this done with
like I was never that excited to read it
even though it was Star Wars like I was
just never I never visualized the fight
scenes very well it’s just something
about it I know this is more of a hate
yeah where’s your love when I’m looking
at it from a 10 10 000 feet high the
characters that they added in were good
the premise was good there’s a lot of
good stuff here you know what I mean
like this is this has the making of a
really good movie I think it is a making
of a good cartoon okay yeah I think it’d
be a great cartoon because one is it’s
several books long so it could be and it
is somewhat episodic in that there were
moments that’s like you could see the
two be continued like they capture Luke
it’s like okay two Beacon or Luke’s
stuck in space it’s like to be continued
it was very I’m sorry it’s a good point
yeah there’s a lot of stop points within
it that would be a good like 30 minute
episode and I think it would go well to
a cartoon and although the narrator here
I thought he was really really good the
voice actor uh for this version that we
listen into because he does all the
voices his Leia was woman-like it was
really good you know Mark Mark Thompson
Mark Thompson yeah the only character I
didn’t love was his second Wookie the
non-choo guy
turn the volume down I don’t know what
oh Bridges
but he was really good but at the same
time you still have all of these
original actors alive and especially in
the 90s they were all alive if you could
have done this with the original cast
and actually put some money behind it I
mean most the money would have probably
gone to them but it would have been
really interesting in that kind of a
format Mark Hamill’s a phenomenal voice
actor his Joker is the best Joker that’s
ever been done I love the idea of this
being a cartoon that I would potentially
be interested in watching I don’t love
the audiobook my love is kashyyk it’s
something that if you think about
because we had now seen kashyyk briefly
in episodes one two and three I don’t
remember which one that Yoda gets taken
there I think it’s three so we see like
very briefly at the end of three but up
until this point like we hadn’t seen
what Chic looks like and Chewie’s an
awesome character everyone loves Chewie
I’d be fascinated to see what his world
is like and so the time when Leia is
walking through kashyyk it was cool to
see them explain their engineering and
the creatures that live there and stuff
like that where I then felt oh this is a
cool part of Star Wars that I’m
interested in you know what’s kashyyk
like then you have a Star Wars
Battlefield 2 which has kashyyk as a
level oh yeah that’s what I was going to
reference yeah it has kashiq as a level
it is obviously not as elaborate and
beautiful as it’s portrayed in this book
but it’s a pretty good idea yeah it’s a
pretty good level I I like I like
kashyyk yeah anytime they they kind of
introduce a new planet and it’s probably
not as hard or easy in a book
I love it and that’s the whole premise
of Star Wars and my mind is like it’s an
open world you anything can literally
happen because it’s you can travel the
universe you can go to new planets you
can meet new people that aren’t called
aliens they’re just they’re just new
friends right exactly also why episode
literally did none of that but yeah
that’s neither here nor there you knew
it was gonna come up and just hating on
the new episodes and or was so good
because it doesn’t need to be Star Wars
you could literally make that same show
without any Star Wars backing it all
into the amazing show and the fact that
it’s in a Star Wars world I was like
holy [ __ ] this is so serious and so
that’s the point with like all of this
movies whatever you need it has nothing
to do necessarily with the characters
like but heir to the Empire relied so
much on we have Han we have Luke we have
Leia we got Chewie C3PO R2 T2 they’re
all coming back
a lot of references to the movies too a
lot of references yeah it just to me I
needed more story unless even the
Mandalorian
it’s it’s more of like did you ever
watch Hercules with Kevin sorba no oh my
god oh I know you’re talking about that
and like Xena was you know so it was
kind of like that in the sense of okay
like there’s an ultimate goal but
there’s just like these episodes they’re
going in on
yeah but at least the Mandalorian like
there were great moments in there and
had nothing to do with the fact that it
was Star Wars it was just because this
guy has this code that he’s living by
and whatever so yeah it’s just
unfortunate they leaned so much on the
characters making this a thing as
opposed to the big crutch the actual
story and I’m talking about mostly the
movies but also also this I had to
imagine too that like there hadn’t been
any Star Wars material really released
since what 84 at this point seven years
later A Book Like Source comments so you
want to like relive the movies because
they was kind of just like uh you needed
to throw it in there and this is before
all they do now in movies is like tie
back to the old stuff yeah I wonder how
some callbacks yeah I wonder how much
was out there and don’t get me wrong if
I was 25 or whatever the case was and I
had seen Star Wars when I was 10 Saw The
Return of the Jedi and rented the other
ones on VHS I would have been jazzed to
read this my buddy passed me a Star Wars
graphic novel in high school or middle
school
and tomorrow Jayden
pass it under the stall in the bathroom
yeah we got five minutes between class
go
it was like a throwback so it had none
of the characters it was basically about
these two Sith Lords thousands of years
ago like that was the story about like
these this like Sith Lord and his
Apprentice you know because there could
only be two right is like the whole
thing and so the Sizzler like has an
apprentice then there’s this other guy
and so it’s like him becoming his
Apprentice I can’t even remember the
Beats of it but it was so good it was an
awesome graphic novel we’re like why
isn’t this a movie this would be
incredible and it had none of the Star
Wars characters that we know and love
it’s just a cool story that happened to
be in the Star Wars universe that’s all
you need what about hate
I mean if that’s not what we’ve been
doing for the last time we’ve kind of
just been doing that yeah what did you
think about jorus so both the Jedi clone
I didn’t really get that character at
all the Clone thing thrown in there it
was kind of weird to me I didn’t
understand that and then him being
amazing at piloting or taking people’s
bodies over and
being a good strategy like why why are
Jedis better I don’t get that why are
Jedi’s good at war strategy or is that
like a proven fact like no I think it’s
good A lot of that Community makes sense
he could basically like Quicken up the
communication I almost would think that
10 people that train together or like
five people that train together let’s
say in a basketball court that know
where everyone’s going that’s going to
do anything that’d be better than you
being able to take over the five people
and like move them around the board yeah
I see what you’re saying I’d rather five
brains working together than one guy
trying to do five things at once I think
his influence was more on a larger scale
honestly it didn’t make a lot of sense
but I understand both sides of it I
think just in general well for one if
you can clone this Jedi why wouldn’t
they have just cloned a bunch of bad
guys as opposed to like Boba Fett
obviously Bob fat could be wrong amazing
choice if you have choices clone Boba
Fett not bad to create an army but you
could just clone some Jedis and give you
Jedi powers that were bad so that was
confusing if you’re going to introduce
some new Force Power or introduce
something it’s got to be like only this
person could do it if you’re gonna
introduce something that’s an anti uh
Force thing like you’re talking about
like all those things that just grow
plentiful it should be like there’s one
that’s growing every a thousand years
and like you have to protect it like
with everything you know it’s like this
one thing that’s a counter yeah there’s
not a million of them you know there’s
no possible way like if it dies it’s
dead or it’s like cicadas or something
that only come every 17 years or
something like oh this is a special year
like this is the year that they actually
like mature like oh we just cloned
things now it’s like it should be like
he got damaged or he like almost got
killed and like somehow he got cloned in
that Pro you know something crazy like
that not like everyday occurrence yeah
he jumped into some Ray beam and because
of that he split into two or whatever
I’m just introducing this stuff like oh
yeah I’ll be my nose you can just clone
Jedi
I honestly just don’t think his
character George sabath was fleshed out
he just he was in there for a little bit
it didn’t make any sense why do you want
to kill people that visit yeah we didn’t
really have enough information about him
to be that interested in him and he
should be super interesting because he’s
the only other Jedi alive that we know
besides Luke and his old points like he
just wants Leia’s babies so we can teach
them to the dark side but even that was
just like okay there’s two others out
there okay we’ll find them but then he
just spends his time doing like
oh I’m thinking about the Imperial
starfish
we’re gonna continue with the hates the
politics side of this I was not
interested in at all I did not care
about the new Republic issues the new
guy coming up who’s you know putting
Admiral Akbar in jail that was such a
throwaway at the end I was like what do
we have enough you know like that was
like throw away the last minute also I
guess I didn’t know this I’m not a big
enough Star Wars fan to know that
Admiral akbar’s people are like the
calamari people or something good
appetizers yeah that’s what I’m saying
like because his head is he’s like a
squid head person so the the calamari
people or something I was like oh my God
like no one could come up with a better
probably just called him that yeah it’s
his latest derogatory term for him yeah
Leia is a meeting with Akbar and she’s
like assistant comes in oh can I get you
anything she’s like play the calamari
extra marinara sauce
akbars to say they’re like that’s my
cousin on the plate yeah it all just
didn’t make a ton of sense
it seemed like they just didn’t know
where to go with this and I know it’s a
Trilogy I know it’s introduction which
I’m gonna get into my next tape which is
trilogies in general I don’t like
trilogies even though I love trilogies
if the first one sucks because now yeah
this one just had an ending that was
very whatever you know the ending wasn’t
that interesting
and everything was left open nothing was
closed not anything at all so in order
for me to get any sort of closure I have
to read two more books that I didn’t
even like the first one we’ve read a few
starts at trilogies in this and that
like we’ve always had that same take so
it’s not a not a hate on this one
particularly I remember hating that one
one that had won the Hugo award and I
was like this book sucks you need to be
good on your yeah you need to be good on
your own I don’t really get why you
can’t just be like oh wow they really
built a good World here nothing happened
but the world is good it’s like no you
need to like have a compelling story in
the first one so I want to go to the
second and third one the wife we were at
a social event and the wife says uh to
some guy who likes to read books she
goes oh Dylan does a podcast about books
I was like please don’t like don’t say
that just keep that [ __ ] to yourself
This is my secret place and he’s like oh
great whatever they said the other thing
and he’s like what books you read and
I’m like well this that and this was
early on when we had started this and I
was like oh this is the other thing it
was the most recent one I was like oh we
read the fifth season and he was like I
love that book oh my God I’m gonna
listen I’m gonna listen to your podcast
I was like I hope if you never talk to
him let’s never talked about Sunset I
was like please don’t listen to that we
it was absolutely terrible I remember on
the Pod I was just hating on you like it
was okay no that’s terrible I think if
I’m gonna rank the 50 or so books we’ve
read it’d probably be in the the middle
back part
thank you
all right I think we don’t want to hate
on this book anymore like we’ve we’ve
we’ve beat the dead horse uh do we have
any listener mail no but I did cast the
characters oh you did good for you what
what just Margate Keith just furiously
looking up red-headed porn stars
thrawn I did Michael Fassbender
I just thought he’d be he’s just like a
calculating dude just seems like he’d
like argue that also could turn around
and you know blow up a Starship I didn’t
but he is a good face for putting a
bunch of blue on and giving him red eyes
he’s got this like tall slender long
yeah like I could see a not alien
because he’s a beautiful beautiful man
there’s no question about that he’s also
married to what’s her name I don’t know
Mara Jade
pretty much uh he also like speaks
several languages he’s just he’s culture
yeah yeah he’s he could talk about the
art stuff like for real for real yeah
yeah for Talon card Talent card yep all
right based on the audiobook who would
you have gone with because this is
basically what I cast him as I have no
idea who’s gonna be uh Russell Crowe I
don’t know no do you remember the voice
in the audiobook it’s Antonio Banderas
that’s so he has like that accent the
exact same accent is Antonio Banderas in
the book are you saying the guy no no
that’s the guy does that accent gotcha
got you yeah he’s like I am telling Cod
he’s classy he’s also good makes sense
for you to be teaching a younger Protege
and tomorrow my girl yeah well couldn’t
we also have the guy that plays the the
Mandalorian oh yeah yeah that would make
a lot because he’s already in Star Wars
but at the same time I think he’s only
shown his face once as the Mandalorian
so it would be fun yeah Pedro Pascal
sorry yeah Peter would be a great
casting kids on the Fly just doing them
I like it and then Mara Jade I just did
who
Zoe Saldana who plays this character in
every single movie she’s in Guardians of
the Galaxy and in in the blue blue men
group movie Star Treks oh and Star Trek
yeah every movie she’s in she’s like the
person that like hates the main person
initially then has becomes a lot of
interest yeah so that’s what okay that’s
her character she does it perfectly
every time so why why would I yeah if
his name’s broke don’t fix it you know
and she’s also gorgeous so we love that
she’s no Mario Jade picture but I’m
trying but she’s almost Reba McEntire
yeah oh God I’m casting Reba McEntire
for tomorrow okay fair enough
thank you
okay well I guess neither of us are
recommending this book I wish it was
better honestly just I really do I wish
it was I mean obviously that’s something
that anyone would say but it had a ton
of the things that could make it good
and maybe it just needs you to read two
more books of it for everything to come
together but I can’t do it I really I
really can’t do it with all the
callbacks and everything like that and
the music and everything it would
honestly make a great kids book if they
dumbed it down and made it less
political and just like callbacks to the
old Star Wars and like action you know
and it would make sense but they’d try
to do way too much in this book just way
too much yeah it’s unfortunate because
uh when you said Star Wars and the
opening credits to the movies like
alrighty after that I was ready I was
ready for it so hey you know what you
tried and I appreciate you trying
because you know what we support here we
support hustle and you you this was a
this was a physical mistake it was not a
mental mistake so thank you we’re tied
all back together we’re okay with with
this miss here
will my next suggested book tomorrow and
tomorrow and tomorrow be a Miss you’re
gonna have to tune in next time to find
out oh wow look at that to be continued
yes to be continued indeed we’re doing
next tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
by Gabrielle seven so pick it up giddy
up all right uh Keith as always it was a
blast talking to you even though we
didn’t love the book we both love Star
Wars and we both love each other and
that’s all that matters that’s what all
that matters you’re not an alien to me d
man you’ll never be an alien to me we’ll
catch you guys for tomorrow or tomorrow
tomorrow tomorrow so yeah get it from
Libby if you don’t have it all right