Morning Star (Red Rising Series, Book 3) – Pierce Brown – Episode 98

The Buddies close out Pierce Brown’s, Red Rising trilogy, with book 3: Morning Star. It was sad to see one of the Buddies favorite trilogies come to an end, but luckily in five years they’ll completely forget the series and be able to do it all over again! The Buddies got to chatting about: yearbooks, the prisoner’s dilemma, and the drawbacks of filming everything (especially violent massacres). So equip your SlingBlade and wolf cloaks for one last ride (in this trilogy at least) as we finish book 3 in the Red Rising Series.

Intro (0:00-1:21)
Stock Up/Down (1:22-28:29)
Favorite Scene/Character (28:30-38:30)
Love/Hate (38:31-46:20)
Recapping Series & Conclusion (46:21-50:08)

NEXT EPISODE: Shōgun (2024 TV series)

NEXT BOOK: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone by J. K. Rowling

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

All right. Welcome, buddy book club. I’m Dylan here with the only man I want to share a meal, baby pit
fibers and cockroaches with Keith. What’s up, buddy? Would you be able to handle the initiation
process? Absolutely not. We’ll get into that for sure. Okay. Okay. Here at the money book club, we’re
breaking down some best others. And this week, we’ll be discussing Morningstar, the third and final
installment in the red rising trilogy. It’s actually, I think the red rising saga because now
there are more books. But either way, it’s my Peter Sproun. If you’d like to recommend a book for us
to read or reach out to us when I passed episodes, you can visit our website, but at book club.com,
or sign to our DMs on Twitter, Instagram, buddy book on podcast, you can list us iTunes, Spotify,
wherever your podcast. So please download, give us a five star review, follow us on social channels,
be terrible in your review. I don’t care as long as it’s five stars. The feedback’s fun. So why not?
We’re finishing a trilogy. It’s not something we do very often here at the buddy book club. I
think we’ve finished Mistborn. And I think that’s it. Granted, we’ve started Dune, we started Ender’s
game. There’s a bunch of other ones I know. But you know what, when it came to Pierce Brown, we
decided we need to finish it, especially in preparation for our Harry Potter series. So, you know, we
wanted to get some series under our belt before that. I think we did it here. Keith, stock up for
Morningstar. What do you got? Yes, stock up opening the yearbook. Oh, we don’t do that. We
close the yearbook. I know. I know you’re fond of saying close the yearbook. Every time I hear you
say that I laugh. Did you come up with that? No, I was like, ah, you should have just said yes,
or I’m gonna cut that. Yeah, you did. Okay. Perfect. I love it. Whenever you’re talking,
especially now we’re in our late 30s. And someone’s talking about like their high school football
days or something like that. It’s like close the yearbook, buddy. That’s a perfect segue because
that’s literally what’s happening in this book of many occasions. They reference the
Institute in the relationships form. They’re like, the only reason Pax’s dad even likes
Darrow in any way is because of the Institute. He was like an ally with them in there. So,
every single thing is referenced is tying back to the Institute. And then what’s funny is this
is basically like being in the Super Bowl, and you’re playing the highest level, like they’re
in a world war or galactic war with millions and millions of people dying. And they’re like,
referring back to like high school rivalries. They’re like, every time we were in the, you know,
they keep on bringing it back, which is real. That would happen. I still think so. But I do
think they maybe should focus the closing your book once in a while and focus a little bit more
on the situation in hand and not like that is the allies, ships we had in the Institute, you know,
we’re meeting so meaningful. Yeah, but anyway, that was kind of funny.
Unlike the championship game or whatever, and remember the Titans or any given Sunday,
whatever you want to pick out for a sports thing, Lilith or Vixxis or whatever, like they
murdered Leah, like that was that happened at the Institute, you know, there was, there was
murder and there was, and there was rape and there was terrible, terrible things happening at the
Institute. So I can understand all around them right now. But I could understand a little bit of
lingering PTSD. I’m never going to argue the fact of so much a closing your book, and it would have
been awesome if Pierce Brown consulted us and somehow worked that into the script. Like when
Cassius and Darrow are just sitting there watching old movies and must think she’d walk
in and be like, close the script guys, there are people being killed in space right now.
Like there are shit, that shit that needs to get done. Although I did appreciate several being
like, you know, you got tortured and we’re in a black hole for a year, Darrow closed the yearbook
bud with over, you know, it was like Jesus, he was like, come on, we need you back to normal,
which I kind of agreed with, honestly. Yeah, it was time to move past that, Darrow, which,
I’m not going to talk about it at all. So maybe we’ll just talk about it right here.
Darrow spending nine months locked away in a box. I don’t know if it’s possible to come out of that
with any semblance of sanity. No, yeah. Like you’re getting fed through a tube or something, and
I don’t even know how he was going to the bathroom. I think he kind of briefly discussed it. But
yeah, day two, I would have been hitting my head against the thing killed myself. But I’d be like,
I’ve been in here for six months and it’d be like eight hours and I’d be like, I can’t do it anymore.
I’m out.
We were citing full novels in his head, which I don’t know how you could possibly do that.
He’s obviously got a bigger brain than I. But yeah, I think any study done on solitary confinement
is like, it’s one of the worst things you can do to a human being. It legitimately makes them go
crazy. So not only like the muscle atrophy and whatnot, but the actual mental side, I don’t know how
I survive. But you know, there is a different guy. He’s got something he’s got another level,
another gear that we don’t have. My first stock up is hazing. So in general, hazing is definitely
the stock is pretty low in our society. I think most institutions now frown upon hazing as opposed
to just turning around, turning the other way, whatever the case is and not paying attention to it.
But in this story, we talked about the howler initiation last time around, but we didn’t know
what it was. And now we do know, I totally forgot that this was part of it. So we get up behind the
scenes of the howler initiation and boys at a doozy. So you get jumped while naked trying to shower
peacefully jumped and like beat up. So it’s very much like a jump in in the in the gang world. I
think that’s what they call it a jump in. Then you’re forced to drink a bottle of booze.
You’re forced to eat a bucket of baby pit vipers and cockroaches with your fellow initiates. So it
it sounds terrible and pointless as does hazing. But actually, it has a meaning about it. You know,
it’s meant to break you down so badly that you can’t get up on your own. And you need the help
of one of your fellow howler brother and sisters to get you on your feet. It’s that simple. It’s
like Victra and Darrow who are the couple of the biggest, baddest, gold teenagers in the solar system
can’t get up on their own. And they need a helping hand. And that’s what it’s all about. You always
got your howlers at your back. Like when you’re down, they’re going to pick you up. So I appreciated
that aspect. And it put a little twist on hazing for me. Although I think that’s how all hazing
starts. It’s like, Hey, we’re going to break them down to build them back up. And then like the
next thing you know, you’re doing like a elephant walk. So it’s I think that’s how it all starts.
And then somehow progresses to humiliation and degradation. Sure. Yeah, I also walk it. I never
understood that. But hey, maybe you just got to support. That wasn’t hazing. I did that.
That’s about supporting your brethren, you know, you’re physically supporting them. So right.
That’s all about. What else do you have for stock up? Good will hunting stock up.
I mean, this will always be a stock up for two good Boston boys. I’m sure you caught the seed.
I think you can say it’s not your fault once you can say it twice. But once you hit them with the
it’s not your fault a third time, like, come on, peers, come on, man. We come on, we all know
what’s going on here. So the just for those that didn’t catch that, but I think it’s like one of
the funerals, maybe it was roaks, but Mustang comes up to Darrow. It’s not your fault. And he’s like,
come on. It’s like, it’s not your fault. It’s the exact same seed from Goodwill hunting. I thought
that was kind of kind of hilarious. And then when you also think about it, their relationship,
Darrows and Mustangs is kind of like Will and Skyler’s had a look up her name, Skyler, you know,
the love interest. Mustang is kind of this well to do gold rich person, but her family is dead and,
you know, it would definitely would give all that up in order to see her family again. Right.
That’s what Skyler’s whole arc was. And then there’s that secret between them where the reason
that Will can’t commit is because he has all these childhood trauma and all that stuff.
It’s kind of the same as Darrows. He resents her for being a gold or rich or whatever the
case is. And you know, he’s all that childhood drama. You felt like there was resentment between
Darrow and Mustang? Like he resented her? No, he resents the goal, the idea of gold, like gold.
Like that’s why he never wanted to like commit to her or be in a relationship with her at first,
because he was like, this is my enemy. And then eventually that breaks, obviously. I think the
jackal also hit it on the head too when he was talking to Darrow. One point, he says to him,
pretty much you tried gold on for size. And your problem is that you realized you like it.
And now you feel bad, because he does feel like a gold and he feels superior to these other people.
And he’s like, shit, you know, that’s part of Darrow’s character is just the idea that he tried
gold on for size and liked it. And I mean, that’s the problem. You see that even in, I’m gonna bring up
the wire and I’m gonna bring up the wire again later. But we’re on season five. So we’re almost
finished. We’re crushing it. But you see that with Mayor Carquetti when he becomes married,
he’s got all these ideas on the city council. But with power, you know, like Spider-Man,
great power comes great responsibility. Next thing you know, he gets that power and he can
actually make changes. And then he all of a sudden is like, I’m gonna try to focus on my own political
career now because all holy smokes, I just became mayor like now I could be governor.
Yeah. So it turns all thing down. You know, it’s like a seal door. It’s like a seal door when he
gets the ring, you know, you’re supposed to throw the ring into the Mount Doom. I think I’m gonna
keep it. Yeah, you know, that’s what happens when power touches you. So Darrow touched the power
and he was able to overcome it. So unlike Darth Vader, I wouldn’t just keep going.
I think Darrow likes being a leader and being someone that takes responsibility or does his
own thing. That’s why he was a hell-diver. All the responsibility was on his back. You know,
no one else was helping him. And that’s what he just likes being a leader. So when he was a gold,
he’s a leader. So I mean, that’s just his role in life. So I don’t think that’s that’s
defined just by being a gold. I think he would be a leader no matter what situation he is. So I
don’t think that’s necessarily the actual case. It’s not like he’s like, Oh, I love being in,
you know, having this like status symbol. I think he’s just like, No, I’m fucking leading
chicks. I know best. Yeah. Okay. That’s fair. I think that’s a good take too. I just like mine
better. Yeah. It was funny the way you phrase that because I totally agree on the, um,
it’s not your fault once. It’s like, Oh, okay, that’s just a line. Not even thinking about it.
Twice. I’m like, Oh, all right. And is that sound like good will hunting? And then three times like,
Oh my God, you just straight up stole that from credible hunting. But I think I think it was not.
Oh my God. What’s so how do you say that? Oh, my gosh, or homage? I think if you’re douchebag,
you say homage. Yeah. So a mosh. Also, they said, just like I said, doer a lot in this book.
And I always thought it was down. I always thought it was dower. And I was like, Hmm, I know what that
means. But what does that mean for our listeners? It just means like fancy. Not sad, but a serious
sad look on your face. What am I thinking of dope do beyond? Doobaton? Debbie, there we go. Yeah.
There was a lot of different and he Pierschbrand has done this throughout the trilogy. So they’re
almost like Easter egg. Oh, Maja. So I agree that it’s not your fault was a, you know, a little nod
to good will hunting. But there’s a few other ones in here, whether it be people’s names. And
we’ve talked about this in other episodes. But they’re fun little Easter eggs and like pop culture,
which which I found to be enjoyable. I hope they were purposeful. My next stock up and we’re going
back to back at bees with this one. So it’s our first back to back stock up. It’s Scott Evil.
He’s coming back into it for a different reason, because I just need to make note for all the bad
guys and good guys out there. If the enemy is in chains at your feet that you’ve been hunting for
years and they keep slipping out of your grasp, just kill them. I don’t care if it’s the sovereign
who wants to showcase Darrow’s execution or Darrow. And when you catch the jackal, you want him to
like face quote unquote justice. Both these guys are wily and have proven they can wiggle out of
any trap. Just shoot them in the head. Boom. Done. It’s just like, you know, just like Scott says,
like, why are, why are you feeding him? Why don’t you just kill him? It’s like, why don’t you shoot
him out? It’s like, I have a gun. It’s in my room. We’ll shoot him together. It’ll be fun.
Thanks. Done. They did get jacked at the end. He waited on trial and they got it. Yeah, he only had
to kill another 30 million people or 50 million people before that I think I said like 10 nukes
went off or like 12 nukes. The whole plan, like jackal’s whole plan, if he was just like dead,
what are they going to do? I guess they could just have nuked everything. But I do like him
pulling the tongue out. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Great final kill. Well, not kill
because he obviously hot hung later. But yeah, taking his greatest weapon away from him, ripping
his tongue out. Okay, my last one. The tree of souls from Avatar, are you familiar with this
film? Yes. Are you familiar with this particular tree? Don’t remember. I just saw the second one
recently. Oh, really? Recently, whenever it came out. Yeah. Terrible, right? It’s about what you
expect. I didn’t think it was bad. A lot of people were like, Oh, it’s amazing. And I was like, yeah,
it was what I expected. Interesting. I watched the first half of it and never went back to watch
the second half, which is, I said movie theater. I also think that it was 3D glasses. I was like,
this is pretty cool. Yeah, okay. But the story, if you just read the story of either
Avatar, you’re like, wow, this is pretty pretty basic. There’s not a lot going on. It’s not red
rising. Let’s go to that way. The first one’s like Fern Gully. It’s exactly the same, which is a
great film. Yeah. So I’m okay with it. And then the second one had the kid knit and the kid just
threw me off. I was like, why is there this kid here? What is he doing? It was like a weird jungle
book, Mowgli situation. But the tree of souls is there like special God tree that not only they
used to pray around and whatnot, but also can save people like it saves Sigourney Weaver,
whoever gets shot, something like that, you know, saves them brings them back to life for the cases.
Why do they not have this for the obsidians on the poles of Mars? It just makes too much sense
for golds to put this in there, in my mind, because you’re trying to create a society that
believes that you’re gods. And so you’ve done that by building this Norse mythology
into their culture. I’m certain there must be some sort of like tree of life or something in
Norse mythology. There’s got to be something along those. But for this particular story,
the way they use obsidians as warriors, and once you train obsidian for a long time,
they can be very useful. You don’t really want them to die. You know, it’s like one of your best
warriors. I know that they call them at the early stages, and that’s part of their thing. So I get
that. But once you have a proven warrior, when you want to hold on to them, so why wouldn’t you,
and they also don’t give them any of your medical, like they don’t have yellows. So why don’t you
instead put these like tree of souls or whatever type thing on the poles so that when obsidians
get hurt, they can bring it to this tree and they think that gods are coming down and healing them,
but really it’s just some of their normal medical technology. It seems too smart. And most
importantly, it would have saved fucking Ragnar. I’m so sad that Ragnar died. I thought it happened,
but I wasn’t sure because this is our second read through this. You’ve read through this before,
right? Yeah, I didn’t remember this book. Yeah, I didn’t either. So I thought someone big died,
and but then I was like, oh, that was packs. So I was like, I don’t know if it happens with Ragnar,
and then it happened. And I was so upset. Why do you just let Ragnar go one v one on Asia
when later in the story, you’re going to go like four v one. It’s just throwing Ragnar away,
honestly, couldn’t stand for it. Didn’t care for either. And just to answer your question,
trees don’t grow in the north and south pole. So that’s even cooler. Yeah,
I sure enough. Yeah, if you give me a little igloo that cures people,
now he’s making my language. I like it. It’s just like you have to put your person in there and
then close the door and then all of a sudden, like a yellow walks out and just gives them an IV
and they’re back to life. Yeah. I don’t know. I’ve just I was really upset. I agree with that.
That’s a good point. Do you think they would have rushed in there in time and actually saved
them? I would hope so. I honestly thought there was something that they were going to do to save
him. I was like, okay, this is he’s okay. He’s all right. He’s all right. And then he didn’t. What
can you do? All right. What do you got for stock down? Stock down, Roke. Oh, yeah.
This is going to back to our like original reasons for stock. I would say this is not a
this is that we intended it. I think the first time we used it was when we I used it for like a
book that you had multiple characters and we were betting or determining which person was more
likely to kill someone and we were like, all right, I think this person is more likely than that.
We read the second half. We stocked up, sucked down them based off of what our projections are.
That’s what we really didn’t turn it for. And then the next episode, we just kept doing it and I
just would add stupid things and you’re like, wait a minute. What? I was like, yeah, that’s all I
don’t know about it. And this is what it’s evolved to on episode 98. Yeah. We’re finally figuring it
out, I think. But you’re back to your back to square one with this. Yeah, no, it’s paying homage
to or homage to but you lamented Roke last episode talking about kind of but this book terrible.
I honestly don’t get why Darryl was even mourning him. It doesn’t really make any sense to me.
I know he’d agree these people can change and he thinks Roke had a good heart. I get that.
But he showed his true color as pun intended when even though I’m friends with you, Roke says,
and even though I have empathy for what happened to your wife and even though you just beat me in
this massive attack and showed your superiority to me, which I’m supposed to be the best at because
I’m gold, I still think that all Reds deserve to be our slaves and that what I did is best for
our society and I think I should be in this position because I deserve it.
Is that a direct quote? Did he say slave? No, but like that’s what they are.
Yeah. Like that’s it. He’s like you’re a lesser person, the main, you’re born lesser and that’s
what you deserve and I’ll kill myself before admitting to you that that’s not the case.
That’s literally his principles. Let’s see, just prove that. And then so that’s what he does.
Wait, so this is the guy you’re defending. I mean, that’s no different than any
terrible dictator in the history of the world that’s tried to cleanse or do any genocides.
It’s like that’s the mindset they have. Yeah. And for Roke, he’s supposed to be a philosophical,
you know, a poet, these kinds of things. He’s supposed to be a little bit smarter. Can he just
take an idea of just how history worked and that this wasn’t the case. It’s not like this is how
people were born into, you know what I mean? You’re not born scrawny or whatever. It’s like all
these people go to get surgeries done or whatnot. If you’re gold and you actually have better meals
and just look at that and say, hey, you know what, maybe there’s a different world out there
that could happen. That would be better for everybody as a whole. It doesn’t make a lot of
sense. It all stems, it seems like, from when when Quinn dies, like, when did it start? He’s
like, it started when Quinn died. It’s like, that wasn’t Darrow’s fault. The Jack. And he even said
the Jackal told me that he killed her. He straight up killed her. And now you’re
siding with him, but you’re saying it started when Quinn died. It’s a logical. Yeah, it’s
totally a logical for someone that’s supposed to be one of the most logical. And I know that
Pierce Brown obviously doesn’t just do these things by mistake. So it’s supposed to show that
some people can just be unmoving and they have their own principles that they’re going to stand
by and they’re going to live and eventually die by them. But yeah, I don’t know why Darrow’s crying
over it. But I hate that they were like, he’s sensitive. Like that was like what they call
his described him as like always sensitive. But he’s not like actually if you’re sensitive,
you like have empathy and you can walk him out and see if he couldn’t do that. The reason he’s
sensitive is he’s a baby back bitch. That’s what he is. Oh, yeah. That’s all you preach. Yeah.
He’s sensitive. He’s your boy last step, by the way. So that’s on you. My boy, Ro? Yeah. You were
like, Ro? Like deserve better last up. And I was like, I don’t know about that. We’ll see now.
Well, I think I was of two minds that he deserved to be informed. You know what I mean?
That’s fair. He deserved to be informed. Being facetious about that. Yeah.
Yeah. Because I don’t want you to mince my words. When someone just read Morningstar,
my first lockdown and this has been a stock down before or maybe a stock up. But, uh, nepotism.
So stock down on nepotism. Just because Sevro is Airy’s son, it doesn’t make him the best choice
of filling in his father’s shoes once Fitchner gets got, you know, it’s like because he’s
Fitchner’s son, he just picks up the mantle of Airy’s. And I understand that there isn’t a box
and Mustangs on the lamb. But there’s got to be someone more equipped to managing the bureaucratic
duties needed to house feed, provide medical care for all these refugees and Tino’s. It’s just
Sevro deciding on this stuff while also managing his howler duties. And that’s what he’s good at.
Leave Sevro as the leader of the howlers and have them do all their runs. He can be the military
leader too, even though he’s not really good at strategy. He’s a better tactical military person
than a strategy military person. He doesn’t have the big picture. So especially when you’ve now
opened up your ranks to, you know, blues and silvers and all the other colors of the rainbow,
there’s got to be someone in there that you could that is part of the sons that can handle
some of this bureaucratic duties. So I’m actually kind of surprised he didn’t want to throw it back
to to Darrow immediately, because I’d be like, Hey, this ain’t why he wasn’t right yet. So that’s
true. I will also say too that I was a little disappointed in Darrow and Darrow, I’ve
think is the amazing character, the first two books, but this book I thought at times when he
went off to go find Quicksilver, first of all, before if you have doubts about his leadership
before, you got to pull him aside be like, Hey, this is the things I think where we got to change
up, you know, someone that’s been in your shoes. Here’s what I would do differently. It take my
advice if you want to, if not, you know, whatever. But once you’re on the actual mission and the
chain of command is Sevro as a leader in your follower, you do not question him in front of
people. I did not like that at all. I mean, you can’t do that. That’s just like going to break the
whole chain of command. Whether someone did that to Darrow when he was doing it, Sevro would never
do that to show him up in front of people. I didn’t like it at all. Didn’t care from that for Darrow.
So even if he’s leading me to my death, Sevro is such a loyal person and has like earned that trust
that I don’t think you ever show him up like that in front of people. I don’t like that.
Okay, interesting. You’ve been watching Savannah Brothers or something like that.
You’re into it. You don’t salute the, what’s it? You don’t salute the soldier you suit the rank
or something. So even if you don’t agree with the decision, he’s earned that rank.
Is that what they say to Solvall?
Yeah, so good. Yeah. But my, oh, do you know it’s on to your stock down, right?
Yeah, what do you got? I may have skipped one for stock up, but I can double negative this.
Not using the President’s dilemma stock down. The President’s dilemma is pretty straight forward.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but they just spent more time at the Institute learning
this instead of, you know, I don’t know what they’re doing, skinning goats or whatever.
They referenced that a few times. Like, oh, I remember back in the good old days when we were
like, skinning goats me and he’d like, no one wanted to do it. I was like, what? I don’t remember
that. But anyways, they have Tony and Fissil and they’re both imprisoned. And the whole point of
the President’s dilemma is you give the prisoners options. And I can read it right from what the
President’s dilemma is. The first line of the prison is, two people are imprisoned. The literally
second line is each prisoner is in solitary confinement with no means of speaking to each
other or exchanging messages. That’s it. That’s like literally the way the reason it works. And
the whole point is you give them an option that’s going to either fuck over the other person or,
and they don’t know if they’re going to fuck them over. You just assume the other person’s
going to fuck you over, right? But instead, they let them like, chat it out, which is,
why would you do that? They know they’re getting recorded. They could have secret messages
passing back and forth. So I’m like, why would they do this? Does it make any sense? And then
stupidly, and Tony kills the one person because that gives her more leverage. So, yeah, read a
book one time for me. Prisoner’s dilemma. I like it once again. We’re on the same page here,
because my next lockdown was interplanetary interrogation tactics.
Oh, so this happens to the wire a lot too. They do that. That was what I was saying. I told
you I was going to talk about the wire again. Oh, okay. Great. So as Darrow not seeing the wire on
the holidays, like they just they don’t have it on the hollows. They got everything else. They got
everything about. Replying that. Ancient Roman civilization, but they don’t have the wire. Come on.
So our boy, Bonkmoreland homicide detective and one of the greatest characters on the wire,
he knows how to play captives off each other. I did. I knew nothing about this prisoner’s dilemma.
When you said that, I thought that was the railroad one where you like either kill one person or I
think it’s similar mindset. But yeah, the other 20, whatever. But let’s just talk about the McDonald’s
play, because I think that’s in season five, which is a great one. He’s got two guys in different
cells separated. They don’t know what the other one is saying. He tells one guy, your buddy gave
you up. The guy’s like, Bullshit. And then he tells him his buddy’s McDonald’s order. And he’s
like, yeah, he’s working with us. We got him McDonald’s. Everything’s nice and easy for him.
And then has the other detective walk the guy with McDonald’s by the first prisoner. And as that
guy’s eating his McDonald’s, he’s like, I’m still not going to tell you guys shit. I don’t care if
you’re having McDonald’s, but the other guy can’t hear it. So then the first prisoner gives up
everything. It’s simple as that. And Darrow on the other hand leaves Antonio and Thistle in
adjoining cells, not only in the same room, but adjoining cells. Like you said, they could be
hand signaling, they could be talking to each other, whatever. But it allows Antonio to mess
with Thistle’s mind and eventually getting here close enough to be able to be her to death. So,
and on top of that, not five minutes before that, Thistle’s like, I’m ready to give everything up.
Just I’m good. I’m good here. Yeah, good pouring in. Yeah. They’re like, wait, let them talk it out.
See what happens. She just said she’s ready to give it up. What are you talking about? So,
yeah, Darrow, there was a lot of stuff, but he does not know how to interrogate. That’s for sure.
So since we both burn that, I’ll go to my next one, which is simply a society that films everything
stock down. So I know this is a big thing just in the world now is how societies have cameras on
every corner and your cell phones have cameras that can tap into those if that’s what people
are saying. Who knows what people say on the internet, but either way, not potentially not the right
answer for those that are seeking power, because for Cassius to do his heel turn and his reverse
heel turn, all Darrow needs to do is give Cassius this hollow of Cassius is the the balona family
just being brutally murdered. Women and children, we got, what’s that little big top or little
round top? What’s that massacre? Either way, Boston massacre? Sure, that one. But yeah, it’s
like he just gives him this hollow, which why was it being filmed in the first place? Who’s filming
them murdering children? But hey, you know what, a society that films everything, they got a hollow
of it, give it to Cassius and now he’s back on your side. Can you explain the history of that?
I didn’t like this is way back when or the Boston massacre. So yeah, it was pretty 1776.
Yeah, yeah, it was right outside post office square and there’s an exchange building and
some bus don’t even got shot. They’re throwing snowballs and stuff at other things.
Two different sizes. Two different ones. No, you’re the other British side. Wow. Yeah,
John Adams defended those Brits and he I think he got them off. And then they also
really all my style. Sorry, what did you want me to explain how that worked? The massacre that
he was watching was that when when was that? Right? What was it? I don’t really know. I didn’t
know they’re sent the context of that. I think it was at the night that he and Cassius got their
duel when like everything was going crazy. Did they kill his whole family and say or was it before
that? I don’t know. I thought that was his grandparents and like her parents or whatever that happened
to. I don’t know. That’s why I didn’t understand. I didn’t know if you know. Yeah, it happened to
like his uncles and nieces and nephews and basically the whole Bologna family. Yeah, I don’t know. Either
way it happened. Did you have a favorite scene? So I mean, I wouldn’t say that this book. I mean,
obviously there’s there’s lots of scenes in it. There’s tons of them to choose from and we can go
through those. The thing I like or one of the things I liked about this book and kind of all
the other ones in general is that things happen somewhat literally. There’s not a bunch of jumping
back and forth to different places. And there’s very defined things that are happening. So maybe
this makes it like a YA book, but you know, you got Darrows imprisonment and his escape, the whole
situation on Tino’s, then Phobos when they go to capture Quicksilver like we talked about before,
then allying with the obsidians, the moonlords and the outer rim and the ensuing space battle.
And then you got Luna where Cassius shows as he’s double agent and the fall of the sovereign and
the jackal. That’s pretty much it. And when we’re on Mars with the obsidians, we’re not like jumping
back and forth between like what Sevro’s doing and then what Darrow’s doing and then back to
what Sevro’s doing. It’s just here’s the story. Then they go back and they link up with Sevro.
We kind of catch up at what’s been kind of like the first person narrative without the first
person. It is first person. It is Darrows perspective. I guess he does. Yeah, the only part that’s he
cheated is the whole Cassius betrayal where they’re pretending in Darrow’s head. Oh, yeah,
except for his dad, Sevro’s dad. Oh my god. But he knows Sevro’s not dead, but you need that. So I
understand that. But then obviously within those different sections of the book, there’s scenes
in there, which are great. So did you have any specific one that you liked, potentially the
scene at the end on Luna or the battle with Azja or anything on Mars? What do you got?
Yeah, for me, the hanging scene was the best. I thought when there’s basically a riot in the
ship and then… Oh, that hanging scene. Yeah, they’re trying to hang Cassius. Sevro comes up and he’s
like wild-eyed and he’s like, I’m the fucking… I’ve done killed so many people. I’ve done all
these things. And he’s like, and hang me. And he just hangs himself. I was like, oh shit. And it was
nice callback to the first book when Darrow did that. So he kind of took notes from Darrow on the,
not hanging himself, but getting whipped because he’s like, I’m responsible for this as well. I
love both. Those are such good leadership traits and being like, hey, what’s that? If you’re gonna
get mad at someone, then you get mad at me also or whatnot. So I love that. I thought, again,
you never see it coming. And I knew the scenes. And I was like, I can’t believe Sevro would do this.
And I’m like, yeah, let’s go Sevro. You know? Like, yeah. Oh man, I loved it. I couldn’t agree
with you more. Great callback to the whipping because it is so much like that because Sevro is
saying, oh, murdering is not allowed in the society, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we should hang all
murders. Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m a murderer. What do you do to me? Boobs. It was awesome. And
I think as a reader, the fun part is in your mind running from like Sevro. What the hell are you
doing to like, he’s not going to do this to oh wait, he’s doing this for a perp. You know, you’ve
kind of figuring that out is really is really fun. A lot of those big riling speeches is just,
they’re just words when someone actually just hangs themselves. That’s like, oh, that’s pretty,
that’s a pretty cool scene. Yeah, he’s screaming freedom. Well, the scuts are getting pulled up.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I really liked that one as well. And then in general for me,
anything that happened on the ice with the obsidian is great. Whether that be the cannibal scene,
which I thought was super cool. Because it’s like all of a sudden Mustang and Darrow are in this
space crashes, any sort of when there’s a spaceship and shit’s going on around it,
but it’s on the ground. I’m into it, especially when this cannibals involve.
I was just picturing Hoth from Star Wars on the whole time. Yeah, same. 100%
on the same page. Yeah. And back to actually, because you said Star Wars, when you first said
the hanging, I thought you meant the Jackals hanging, which in like a weird way is like that
metal scene in Star Wars. Well, just because it’s like, it’s not really a scene. It’s more of
just like everyone knows credits on the other side. Yeah, it’s like a credit type scene. I know
all the obvious that the Jackal isn’t, but and I was like, wait, that’s your favorite scene. It’s
weird. But either way, I think also when they kill the golds that are pretending to be Norseman,
I like that as well. And then I guess the fight at the end was pretty fun. Just wondering like,
how that’s going to play out. I guess let’s talk about that. Did you remember that Cassius
did the double agent thing? Well, the thing, the problem is, is I can just go right into my one of
my hates, because this is was the thing is like, I just didn’t believe that Cassius would do that.
If that were a Roke, I would make more sense to me that he was able to flip based off what you
said last book and base about what we were kind of thinking Roke as is someone that’s like,
logical can be kind of swayed with our good argument, where Cassius was the dude that was holding a
grudge because Darrow had to kill his brother in an institute that set it up where he had to
kill his brother. Like, it wasn’t like he sought him out and killed him. It was just a lock, it was
dumb lock, it was chance. It had nothing to do with anything personal. Yet he’s like holding a grudge,
his whole family’s holding a grudge over that. It’s like, it’s like logical doesn’t make any sense,
right? So that same guy then viewing something and being like, you know what, I’m going to go
against everything I believe in all of society because I saw this video. I get that he’s very
family oriented, but at the same time, I don’t think he’d be anti gold all of a sudden because
of that. It’s just, I don’t know. That’s that was the reason why I didn’t think that was going to
happen at the end because I was like, Cassius is such a like a dickhead. There’s no way he’s
actually going to see the light. I can understand that. I think the Julian thing, I can understand how
Cassius would hold that against Darrow. It’s like heart, you have to hold it against someone and to
hold it against your own society would be immediately blaming them for it, which is also how he’s able
to turn at the end because once he starts seeing other stuff, he even says when he has Lysander,
the world needed Julian. He’s agreeing with Odaras at the whole time. Yeah. Just the idea that this
weak person who just wanted like love and cared for other people that he’s able to just be thrown
away by the society, like obviously something’s broken, but it took something else to turn him,
which is Cassius is almost like a knight from the Middle Ages, or at least our idea of them,
which is about duty and honor and all of these in gallantry and all this stuff. And so that’s
the the person he is. And that’s what he believes in. And then he gets turned by Darrow by, you know,
pretty much lying to him, which is like, all right, that’s not honorable. So he goes through that.
And then even with the sovereign at the end, he says like, why did you turn? It’s like because
you lied. And it was about his family. But the idea of honor just got through like the goals are
more honorable, just got thrown out the window. And now he’s able to let the rest of those ideas
shuffle in. That’s a good point. Yeah. We had a couple new characters.
Sefi the quiet, her mom, I can’t remember what the mom’s name was. She didn’t work out for very
long. And we got regular son, aka Quicksilver, holiday T Nakamura and her brother, Trig,
any new characters that became favorites for you? Or were they just ancillary?
I thought the new characters were kind of meh. Holiday didn’t really have a distinct personality.
She’s kind of just a foot soldier that didn’t, that was kind of there.
She had some comic relief moments.
Yeah, I didn’t really understand Quicksilver. And then they also introduced like the person
that was the head of Mustang’s ship. They’re like, I have this person and I didn’t even know
what that person was. Yeah, who is that? That’s the blue that Darryl put in power in Golden Sun.
Oh, okay. I was like, who’s Orion? I mean, I guess you got the Moonlord 2,
who had an Australian accent, which I really liked the voice actor in the Australian accent
forum. But yeah, no, I didn’t think any of them really kind of moved the needle. Although I will
say one thing that was only very shortly in the book was the bone riders.
Those are fucking awesome. All right, let’s just be honest, they’re wearing bones and just going
around like thinking like, let’s go bone riders. I was like, all right, that’s sick. I was like a
book just on them. Honestly, that was awesome. He’s good with names to Pierce Brown, you know,
whether that be like Iron Rain or bone riders. Like it’s just, it sounds, it sounds badass.
When it could really sound not badass, if you know what I mean. I’m just thinking Nick Cage
was doing the kind of six seconds let’s ride thing. That’s like third motto.
Like I picture these guys with a motorcycle spaceship. Oh yeah.
I remember that when I was like, the leather jackets with both the bone chains hanging on them
somehow. I don’t know. Leather jackets on them. It made sense to me. I could, I get why you’d
fall on the jack-off once you killed somebody who presented you with like ornate bones to wear.
Yeah, I kind of, I kind of agree. I thought Zephyr was kind of unfortunate considering
how robust of a character Ragnar was. And I know she doesn’t have enough screen time per se to
to really become a character. But she has like one moment, which is really just that,
at least to the hanging and then her afterwards, you know, and I guess a little bit on the rocks,
but like not really, like on the, on the ice. So yeah, in Quicksilver, I agree. Just,
it explained a lot. He was very good for explaining how the Sons of Ares could actually function.
Like obviously they need some sort of financial backing. And so like that makes too much sense.
So I appreciated that because it makes the story more plausible. But outside of that,
he wasn’t, he wasn’t really much. So I was okay with holiday. And honestly, maybe the only reason
why, because she’s from Earth, the narrator did an American accent for her and it, I thought it was
kind of funny. So yeah. Yeah, it’s really good. I did enjoy also, because it’s going back to
scene though, I did enjoy the escape with them when they, they’re trying to get Darrow off and
like her brother just gets God. It’s like, well, okay, we’re starting off with a bang. Like,
I thought this guy was going to be a character. So see ya. All right, since you’re out of Birds
of Hates, let’s jump into love hate. Would you love about it before you start getting negative
all over again, burning two hates right there? Once again, I mean, there’s so many unique and
amazing action sequences. I feel like a lot of the books we read, you kind of can predict or have
some sort of inkling of what’s coming up next. And we read this book before and I was like,
what’s happened? I’m on the edge of my seat. I got to the point when there was two or three
hours left in the audiobook, where I would would listen to it less because I was so upset I was
going to be ending it. Like, that’s how good the book is. Really? It H.P. do you got Harry Potter
by this? Yeah, I’m doing the same thing with Harry Potter. I’m starting it and I’m like getting
that like nostalgia coming back and I’m like, Oh, no, I don’t want to read this so fast. Like,
I got to put it down for a little bit. I was really surprised you said you were starting it
already because we still have another epi to do. Like, we’re not going to do it for a couple
weeks potentially. I know. That’s why I’ve been kind of doing small doses. I don’t want to get
addicted yet. Yeah. So I would already be on like book four if I had already popped it open.
You’re injecting it into your veins. I’m just smoking it. I’m not actually injecting it yet.
It’s healthier, right? That’s how it works. But so this one got you, got you in the fields.
Oh, no, it’s coming into an end. So I was slow playing the end of it pretty, pretty hard. Like,
I texted you. I was like four days in like through the first 15 hours. I was like,
Oh, we ready to do this one? You’re like, what? I was like, no, you did.
Usually it’s the other way around outside of football season. But yeah, I agree. You started
by saying the action sequences and he I feel like he just writes those really well, even at the end
when it’s a four V one fight against Asia, you would think that would be kind of hard to visualize
or whatnot. But the way he wrote it, it’s like you could kind of see the whole battle,
the whole fight going down. It’s almost like return to the Jedi or whatnot when in the background,
you’re sure like out of these holes is like a whole space battle going on around them as they’re
doing this thing. So yeah, I really enjoyed all the different, you know, quote unquote set pieces
or whatnot that were in there. Probably my biggest love is the character growth that we see for
some of our biggest characters in this one. And because we spent so much time with them in the past,
and we know he does such a good job at this too, of like, you know, advancing these characters.
But Victor joining the howlers when Darrow takes her out of the cave, and then they have a really
good conversation that leads her to join him. And they have another conversation even later when
she’s like, you know, I didn’t join because of you, you know, or she originally says revenge against
her sister. But it’s more than that for her. And we see that in the relationship she has with
several. And to be about several, his speech, which we already talked about was awesome. That
like talk about growth of a character, several becoming just kind of this like war leader to now
a leader leader was great to see. And then I really liked, I did like Cassius coming back into the
fold. I thought it made sense. And I led that earlier asking if you saw it coming. And I was
asking because I wasn’t sure if I remembered it or not. But and I guess this might be one of my
hates. I wasn’t sure if I remember it. I didn’t think so. But I thought there was, it was so obvious
leading up to it that he was going to turn back. I don’t know why. But after he shot several, I was
like, holy smokes, I cannot believe that happened. Like what? And then I was like, Oh, pierce, like,
that’s badass. You just went and killed several like that. And then maybe like five pages later,
I was like, wait, I remember the hemat this oil or whatever. Yeah, that dare I did. The and I’ve seen
what do they call those ketchup packets or whatever vests that they put on in movies?
Squibs. Those are people that are can’t be magic, right? Yeah, they are too. Yeah,
they’re fun. They’re both back. Yeah, so I kind of saw that comment. So maybe that’s a hate of mine is
I wish I was a little more surprised. But I guess we’re just doing love sates at the same time. Do
you have a love or hate? I actually thought the ending will after that fact was good because the
society isn’t perfect. It’s like still fractured in some ways. It wasn’t nice little like, Hey,
we’re coming together. We’re going to start making some changes. But it wasn’t and the reds will rise
up and everything will change. I did think that it kind of shows that there’s not there’s like this
perfect ending or society that can just change immediately. It’s like, there’s still gonna be
tons of issues. It’s just now different issues. But that was cool. Yeah, and they couldn’t solve
that in three books. And it’s said so much by Mustang and other characters. It’s just like,
well, what’s your plan for after? Like, yes, Sarah, we know you can wage war. But can you can you do
it without having a sling blade in your hand? Can you rule? Even though they don’t want him to rule
it like what’s your vision for the future? So one, it helps peers like open up three more books in
this series, which if you’re if you’re inclined, you can go read them, sure they’re great. But also,
yeah, it’s like it’s like the end of a new hope, like the metal scene we were talking about. Because
yeah, it’s a great moment, but there’s still a lot of bad out there and a lot to still be done,
especially when it comes to the people. But hey, if you’re a minor, you have to worry about laurels.
Like you do your job, you get medical care and you go home, just live your life. Yeah, it’s funny
that you said the ending because that was actually one of the hates of mine. And not necessarily
that aspect of it. I just thought in the end in general, there it was too much of a happy ending
for me for how brutal this book was. And then just in the people that I mean, I’m not saying
kill off main characters necessarily, but I don’t know, there could have been something worse,
because and then when you put it the end, Mustang says, Oh, I we have a son. It’s like, okay,
like, I got it. Is everything going right?
I want to know the size of that kid because it’s going to he’s going to be another several.
He’s going to be half size, right? Well, I was thinking about this too,
which is interesting because for several parents, they had to mess with the body parts, you know,
they took care of the body parts so that the genetic systems would work. It just goes to show
how thorough Mickey was that not only was he creating this super advanced gold that could,
you know, dominate these other teenagers, but he was like, I might as well put some functioning
semen in this guy because ladies are going to want him and in the future, you know, I should
figure this one out. So yeah, Mickey’s definitely the best carver. That’s for sure. Basically,
my point is that I think that it’s a fully grown gold, like Mickey, okay,
because like the genetics, he changed the genetic code, not just the yeah, like he,
yeah, he fixed something in there or puts a nano semen in there, whatever he’s doing.
I didn’t mind the ending because that you could go the opposite direction when we saw
what Game of Thrones where it’s like, well, I need to make such crazy ending because everyone
expects it for me. It’s that I’ll do the stupidest shit ever. Yeah, instead of just no one’s going
to complain if you have just a HP coming up. There’s definitely a good ending, right? It’s not like
it’s not perfect, but it’s not a terrible ending. But in that’s fine. You could really fuck it up
way worse. I wasn’t that upset. I guess at the same time, there was like 12 nukes dropped.
So everyone goes home happy. There’s like 50 million people dead and how it already blacked
out and starving. Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah. Okay, I will say, which was kind of my one of my
hits is I almost wished. I mean, this is bad, but I wish early on in the book, something fired
there up because I feel like he didn’t have that hunger that he’s had in the first two books where
he’s like, I gotta do this. Yeah, you almost needed Mustang to get killed or something like that
early on this book where he’s like, now I gotta come back and just be an absolute psychopath again.
Yeah, because that’s the dare I missed. That’s what living solo in a box will do for nine months.
Yeah, you lose the fire. Yeah, it’s all dark confinement. Not great.
Yeah, so it’s got a four or five two or something on Goodreads, which is wild.
But you know, I that might be the highest we’ve ever read, you know, especially with some of
this many reviews, I think Golden Sun had like a four to four, four, eight and Red Rising had like
a four to five, let’s say, they’re not. I don’t know why Red Rising was so like, I think we talked
about though, like the reason that the third one is so high is because if you’re reading the third
one, you’re a huge fan at that point. You’re not going to read three books of a book you don’t like,
you’re narrowing it down to the biggest fans. And then as long as it’s a good book, you’re going to
say it’s yeah. Well, I think also what’s interesting is that from what I’ve gathered from people
who have read this and just like through reviews and whatnot, I haven’t talked to that many people
let’s say, but most think that this is the best book, Golden Sun is the second best book,
and Red Rising is the worst book. Yeah, that’s kind of crazy to me. Yeah, because I like Red
Rising the most. Yeah, I agree. Such a fun little story that, you know, and this obviously is a
bigger deal, but I think their order of release Red Rising first, I think this one was third,
but at the same time, there’s only so many twists and turns and things you can do. And like,
this book was still had him, but I don’t think there’s like that much of a gap between all of
them. But I still think those were that would be the order for me. What about you? 132 for me.
Yeah, I like this, but I think Golden Sun, I think the Cassius turn and the several stuff was great.
I mean, we got some good Ragnar, but we didn’t get Ragnar. If you could put Ragnar’s best from
two into this, like, oh my god, this would be, this might be number one for me overall.
All right, so that was Morningstar. We finished our second trilogy ever, Keith Pat on the back,
proud of you. And it’s really just getting us ready for what do you call a series with seven books,
trilogy three set up, six, six, something.
Septology, either way, Keith, would you recommend Morningstar to our listeners?
Yeah, I still think I would tell any person this is a series that’s right up there with Harry Potter
in terms of my favorite reads. I recommend it all the time. So yeah, I would continue to do that.
And second read through is just as enjoyable. Can’t wait to forget this in five years and do it again.
Yeah, and we’re going to talk about that in the next series because it’s great when you
like a book so much, and then you totally forget it, and you’re able to go back and read it with
mostly fresh eyes. It’s so enjoyable, and it’s a strategy viewed before, and I will definitely
use it again with this series. I’ll probably be like, I want to read at some point in the future,
I want to read the next trilogy, but I’ll be like, oh wait, what happened to that first one?
Then I’ll start it red rising and I’ll do it all over again. So that’s generally how I feel about it.
Keith, it’s been fun. What do we have coming up next? We’re doing the TV show for Shogun.
That’ll be next. So sorry. And then Harry Potter, we’re going to do, are we still planning to do the
read the book, then do the movie, then read the next book and do the movie or do we have to?
Yeah, especially the fact that you haven’t seen the movies. I need an immediate take after you’ve
read the book. Give me an e in that flow. Yeah, that’s what I think I’ve seen.
We’re all knocking off your boom Trevor. Yeah. All right. Well, yeah, we’re doing that. So that’s
14 episodes basically planned out. Yeah, that that’ll probably take us through the summer.
It’s the summer, so it’s perfect. Yeah, if you’re not reading Harry Potter this summer,
what is wrong with you? Because that’s what I’ll be doing. So Keith, it’s been fun doing this
trilogy with you. I’m excited for some Shogun, even though I need to watch some epies and I’m
so excited for Harry Potter. It’s like we’re opening a closing yearbooks left and right over
here. Oh yeah. This is a good yearbook to open. All right, it’s been fun. Good stuff. Bye.