My Friends – Fredrik Backman – Episode 130

The Buddies return with Fredrik Backman’s 2025 novel “My Friends,” their second dive into Backman’s work after “Anxious People.” They get to chatting about art snobs, nicknames, train conductor, and how this books first draft was originally was way more depressing. The Buddies try to bring some levity to this one (and some much-needed revenge on specific parents). Like the book this one is filled with a bunch of ups and downs. So, fill out your postcards, imagine you are 14 again (you’ll need it for our sense of humor), and join us along with all of our other Buddies, or as we like to call them “My Friends”.

Intro (0:00-4:11)

Stock Up/Down (4:12-38:32)

Favorite Scene/Character (38:33-42:11)

Love/Hate/Lingering Questions (42:12-53:08)

Conclusion/Casting (53:08-57:26)

 

NEXT BOOK: Legend by Marie Lu


Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

All right, welcome to Book Club.
I’m Dylan here with my friend Keith.
What’s up buddy?
Are we not friends? What the hell?
No, I guess that was poorly ide-
I’m running out of me.
Yeah, uh, no, it was because that’s the book reading, so…
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Here at the Buddy Book Club, we’re reading out the best sellers, and this week we’ll be discussing
Frederick Bachman’s 2025 novel, “My Friends.”
If you like to check them in to book for us to read or reach out to us any past episodes,
you visit our website, www.buddybook.com/dm/anxinstagram.
That’s Buddy Book Club podcast, that’s the handle.
You can list to us iTunes, Spotify, or any of your podcasts.
Download, subscribe, five star reviews, tell us your haters, or you love us, please,
and thank you, Keith.
Frederick Bachman, second book we’ve read of his, right?
Anxious People, was he the other one?
Yep.
I didn’t know, and I think we might have talked about a man called Ove at some point,
like doing that book.
I didn’t even realize that was, I mean, that was what then got turned into that time.
Hangs movie, a man called Auto, and it was also a Swedish movie.
You sent me a quick clip of his, and he’s like doing a speech at an awards thing or something,
and he had some pretty good laughs in there.
He seemed like–
He’s speaking English, too, because he gets the book translated, so I’m like,
he could just write it in English.
I don’t think he does it in English.
He does it in English, and then it translates?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, he was pulling out words that I didn’t know, and I was like,
This is not your first language, like, let’s go to the role?
Yeah, exactly.
That always bothers me, too, the people that they’re second-language, and they speak better.
And not only do they speak better, like, have a greater vocabulary than I do,
but their joke’s like, the timing is right.
It’s things that I can’t even do in my first language, and they’re just crushing it in their second language.
Yeah, especially since comedic timing is, I feel like, is different across different–
Oh, for sure.
And then also, comedy is so word-based that if you mess up one word,
the joke is not no longer funny, and he was just like, “Yeah, I’ll just make this perfect,
don’t worry about it.”
Goddamn, this guy, you know?
In prep for this pod, I like to sometimes go on YouTube and hear what other people are saying,
or, you know, read a couple of good reads, things, whatever the case is.
I like the YouTube ones because it makes me feel a little bit better.
Some of the people on YouTube, I honestly feel like, are absolutely terrible.
They spend the first five minutes just being like, “Oh my god, I’m so excited to talk about this book, guys.”
This is–
We kind of do that, but yeah.
What were you talking about something?
At least, it’s not just–
Oh, it’s not just plot, yeah.
It’s for–
To me, it’s that part before you get to a recipe, when you’re reading an online recipe, where it’s like,
you’re looking for Apple Kris, but it’s like, “It’s Tuesday, I just started menstruating, so I thought,
Oh, what do I need? I really need something delicious this fall.
And falls my favorite time, my kid Chandler, it’s like that.
You’re like, “Get to the freaking recipe.”
Which turns into these reviews.
They’re 15 minutes long, and I’m 10 minutes in.
You haven’t even talked about the book yet.
That’s what we’re doing right here, yeah.
Yeah, that’s a real thing right here.
I get it.
But I was looking up some of those, and I also saw some interviews that he had done.
He was on Fallon, and he did an interview with Barnes and Noble,
a long format type thing, which I listened to a bit of.
And I think you would get along with him because you’re both very self-deprecating.
He must have some demons, honestly, because he keeps talking about how he lost it.
Like, he can’t write anymore.
When writing this book, my friends that we’re going to talk about at some point,
he had to go into the woods and cry for a while to figure it out.
Yes, great.
He’s like, I was in a dark place.
I was out there with him.
I mean, what?
But he’s also like, I’m just a terrible writer.
I don’t know how people write.
I’m a terrible writer.
And his books are pretty well written.
So, did I say “44” in Goodreads?
That’s what this one has.
But we’d read anxious people before, so if you haven’t
checked out that app, or if you’ve read that book and haven’t checked out that,
feel free to go and do so.
All right, Keith.
Let’s get into stock-up stock-up.
Stock-up, what do you got?
Stock-up, rich art snobs.
Oh.
Stock-up, that’s why I stocked out.
Okay, well, I’ll tell you why.
I’m not a fan of rich art snobs.
You know me.
No.
You know me.
That’s why it’s so okay.
I think the movie The Rock is the peak of art.
I mean, let’s be honest with you.
Yeah.
Let’s get it.
Give me a drawing of Fenway Park.
I don’t think there’s a better drawing out there.
Like, that’s all you need to give me.
I said, this is, I misspeeds everything.
Give me the Mona Lisa verse that.
I’ll take Fenway.
Okay.
But, you know what’s worse than rich art snobs?
What?
Poor art snobs.
Oh.
I mean, a big theme of this book is just how rich art collectors
don’t even understand the art, the deeper meaning.
They didn’t even see the kids hanging out on the…
On the pier.
Miniser is, who cares?
Who gives a shit?
I mean, is that really that big of a crime though?
Like, if you like the painting,
and whether that be for, because you liked the painting yourself,
and you just want it,
or you want to show it off to friends.
And say, this is the painting I bought,
because, you know, we want to show it off.
Or it’s an investment.
All those things are okay.
That’s what art is for.
And the reason that artists became artists,
or art is famous in general,
if you look back all over history,
is because rich benefactors
allowed them to do that.
But, a lot, all these big artists got like grants
from these rich people that said,
I want you to make art, don’t worry about your money.
You can’t, if I can paint a picture of a piece of bread
and eat it, you need money to do this.
So, all these people that they’re complaining about
are the whole reason that artists
and artists exist in the world right now.
So, don’t get me this bullshit of like,
Oh, these guys are here and they don’t want to stand there.
Just shut up, shut up, shut up.
It says anything like, if you won’t want to bought a Rolex,
are you like, “You don’t even know how that works?”
So, you don’t know the mech, it’s like, “Yeah, it’s a beautiful piece of art
and maybe you’re getting it for your investment,
maybe you’re getting it to show off.”
But, you don’t necessarily need to know
how the fucking piece of machine in our work
stay by it and want it.
Yeah.
I’m gonna hang out, I get towels, I’m gonna hang out here this one.
Louise.
Louise, yeah.
Is outside, Louise, whatever.
She’s drawing on the church, isn’t she?
Like, outside.
Yeah, graffiti.
It’s, oh yeah, she was grafeding the church.
I’m like, “Okay, that’s what you’re just saying.”
I don’t think it was a church, it was just the side of the art.
Yeah, I thought it was a church.
I mean, whatever, who cares?
She’s drawing, and this is how I knew this book is,
like, the artist thing was stupid.
He’s drawing beautiful cockroaches.
Yeah.
How exactly does it want to do that?
Is this like, these cockroaches in like,
nice, ballroom dresses or like, do they have nice and has?
I would have nice ones.
What is beautiful?
Yeah.
How would explain to me how a cockroach would be beautiful?
Just, it doesn’t make any sense.
It is, it’s 24 and 36.
It’s 24 and 36.
There’s no way he could spray paint a beautiful cockroach.
Of course you can graffiti, man, his art.
Oh my god.
Anyways, rich, no art snobs are stock up.
These poor art snobs are sat down.
Yeah, I think you’re just, talk about Fenway Park.
You’re not even on, you’re not even on base here.
You’re on the pesky pole.
You’re sitting on the green monster.
No, you’re a fan.
It’s exactly like that though with Fenway.
It’s the same idea.
Let’s use that for an example because that’s what you’re going for.
It’s those pink hat Red Sox fans who are jacking up the price
of those seats.
And so they don’t even care about the game.
They’re just sitting there gabbing.
But you and I, the people, I mean, I don’t even care about baseball.
But let’s just pretend I did.
Let’s pretend I’m eight again.
You and I who want to go to that game and can’t get those seats.
When we do eventually go to the game,
we’re trying to rally on the team.
Hey, guys, let’s go rally caps.
Have a good time.
And these people are on their phones looking at TikTok.
It’s that it’s they’re not appreciating the game itself.
They just want to be seen.
They want an Instagram photo of themselves at a Red Sox game.
So that’s the same thing that’s going on with these rich people.
That’s a good attitude.
You know, that’s sitting there.
These rich people are like, I agree with you to some extent in that.
Yeah, if they, if they like the photo,
if they like the picture, like, maybe they don’t understand
the total depths of it.
But if it makes them feel a certain way, if it makes it move,
then sure, they can, they can enjoy it in their own way.
I don’t think the aspect of art isn’t you need to enjoy it this way.
It speaks to different people differently.
But if the point of it is your Rolex example,
where you’re just wearing it as a, as a style symbol,
yeah, you don’t need to know how a Rolex watch, watch works.
But I could understand someone who found
the, you know, the machinery within the engineering
to be absolutely incredible.
And that’s why they wear it.
That person would be a total douchebag.
I think if you ask them that.
But, but at the same time, 99% of people that are wearing it
are wearing a Rolex as a status symbol.
Yes, it also appreciates in value as does a lot of art.
But it’s a status thing.
And that’s the problem with the idea of these rich art people
who buy this art and then put it up in their own, in their own homes.
And no one will ever get to see it because they just want to
tell people they have it or they only show it to their, you know,
small group of friends.
I agree with you about the benefactoring aspect.
That is how a lot of art was created originally.
But in those times, in the, in the Renaissance times,
to my understanding, it was a lot of for public display.
You know, they’d have a, it would be a, it would be a church
that this beautiful art would be put in or whatever the case is,
the place where people go.
It wasn’t to be squirreled away in your, your whiskey decanting room
so that you and all of your hobnobbing rich friends can look at it
and they can be jealous of you that you have this super cool painting.
So, yeah, you know, this, the guy, our main character,
C. Yacht, Kim Kim, he has to sell everything he owns to buy back
his own painting.
And sure, there’s an argument there that, well,
don’t get rid of it in the first place or put it,
give it on loan to a museum that you can then take back
if you want people to see it.
But it’s, it’s kind of crazy that someone who created something,
that was so meaningful to them, then has to sell everything they owned
to, to buy it back.
I will finish this by saying, though, that to your point,
art, I don’t know, I’m not saying all artists create like this,
but I was, I was watching Light Magic,
are you familiar with that on Disney?
You would love it if you haven’t seen it yet.
It’s basically industrial light and magic,
the company that was started to do the effects for Star Wars,
the original one.
It’s kind of the background of industrial light and magic
and George Lucas setting this company up
and then then creating all of these effects for Star Wars.
My point being in that, though,
a lot of people were upset with George Lucas when he went out
and created Star Wars because he and Spielberg
were the, ended up being the most successful
of their rat-packed group of movie creators
or whatever the film directors.
They ended up being the most successful
because they wanted to create popcorn movies.
The other guys, they wanted to create art.
They wanted to make art on the screen.
And George, George Lucas and Spielberg were like,
“Well, the whole point is to get people to go to these movies

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00:11:29,440 –> 00:11:30,240
and enjoy them.”
So we’re making these for the masses.
I’m not going to make this artsy film for my five friends.
The friends kind of felt like they were sell-outs
and then those guys kind of felt like,
Oh, well, we’re making it for the masses.
So yes, art should be something
that can be consumed for the masses
but at the same time,
people should be allowed to take from it
what they will and taking from it.
So you’re on my side again?
Well, I’m just saying it shouldn’t be just for status
or for an investment.
Although, like, that’s fine.
Who’s the arbiter of what is, you know,
where is the cutoff point?
That’s my whole point is,
go back to the Fenway analogy.
Okay, let’s say it’s not Fenway,
let’s say it’s a shitty small lacrosse league
that’s trying to build up their fan base.
If you’re a huge lacrosse fan
and then you start seeing these kind of
non-locross people start to come to the games
and be like, “Oh, this is going to be an intruder.”
And you’re like, “Hey, shut the fuck up!
This is art sport.”
You don’t have to come, you know?
Like, well, you’re never going to grow.
You don’t even have a cradle, bro.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, that’s never going to grow.
So, like, you can’t have it both ways of like,
we want this to be a rich and famous
and like, everyone to see it and be this amazing.
I want it on a postcard.
That’s how she goes to the painting.
But then also be like, “Oh, also,
you don’t understand it as well as I do,
so therefore you can’t buy it or have it
or, you know, do any sort of thing around it
because it’s my, you know, I want to see it.
I want to have it the way I want to view it.”
It’s like, no, you can’t have it both ways.
Let’s get back to Spielberg and Lucas.
You know, it’s a little holy grail
who deserves to get the holy grail?
Not the Nazi.
It ain’t the Nazi.
That’s all that I’m going to say.
That’s a way to take a stand.
I didn’t think you would go that far.
Demand, but you really took a stand on that one
and I appreciate that.
Yeah, you know, my pleasure.
Happy to do so.
My first stock up is Nicknames.
Stock up.
Oh, yeah.
So, everyone in this, well, maybe not everyone,
but the friends, the OG friends,
they all have their own nicknames.
You know, Ali, call her Ali
because she like got no fighters or something like that.
I can’t remember what the deal.
I can’t remember what the backster was.
But they just called her Ali and there you go.
That just became her name.
Kim Kim, he said his name is Kim,
which I don’t even know what kind of man’s name is Kim.
I’m not judging.
I’m just wondering what the parents actually named him.
But he had to repeat himself so that forever and ever
he became Kim Kim, which I appreciated.
Fish was an interesting one.
I don’t know if I really stand by it.
It was kind of like when someone makes fun of you
and you just lean into it so they stop making fun of you
because her eyes were far too far apart.
Like maybe she had some…
Oh, that was the reason I didn’t realize that.
Yeah, I think that was with the deal.
They called her something else before that.
And so that she took it back to own it and it was fish.
But yeah, I mean, you got…
I don’t think… I don’t know if you are…
Was it Nickname?
And unfortunately Ted doesn’t seem to get one.
You know, he’s just…
He’s kind of like…
Well, he’s kind of a playing Ted.
Yeah, he’s kind of a more…
Ted has a lot of stuff.
Yeah.
So…
But I feel like he’s got…
I mean, Ted is such a good one to do.
Like, theodore, Teddy, Teddy Ballgame, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
The O.
Yeah, you could do a lot of stuff.
There’s tons.
I mean, that was when my daughter was born,
that was when we talked about names,
that was my only thing.
It needs to be able to have a nickname.
It’s as simple as that.
And then we named her…
We named her Lucy.
And there’s really not really many nicknames.
Well, the book…
I started reading the nickname for…
Lucifer was Lucie, so…
It is. That’s actually the…
The male version.
Oh, yeah.
So we figured if we have a son,
we’ll just go Lucifer and see how that looks out.
Yeah, right, exactly.
But yeah, I think all friend groups…
They have nicknames.
I feel like the more ridiculous they get the better sometimes.
You know, I think we’ve talked about it a lot before,
but I have a good friend from college.
His name is Cheese.
And it’s just because…
Eight Mile happened to be…
His name is Rob,
but Eight Mile happened to come out when we were in college.
And he tore his ACL,
so he was on crutches.
And Cheddar Bob is an Eight Mile,
who was got shot.
And he became Cheddar Bob.
And from Cheddar Bob, he became Cheese.
And he’s 20 years later.
That’s his name.
His name is Cheese.
It’s just…
It’s crazy.
But yeah, so I love it.
That’s how you know you get good friends,
or terrible friends, depending.
But I feel like Ted must feel a little left out.
Yeah, it’s tough.
I also think…
At least the nicknames I know of,
all of them are pretty much the last names,
and all of them are…
To go to my theory,
that the best brands and best names
that you remember are all two syllables.
So the person’s first name is only one syllable.
You change it to a two syllable.
You go with their last name.
That’s the typical thing for you.
Oh, Terry?
No, D-Man.
We’re going last names here.
People are going to start googling.
Yeah.
Oh, sure.
Blank, blank, blank, blank.
It’s three syllables.
You’ve said my last name, like,
100 times.
What else you got for stock up?
Stock up the Penguin show?
I don’t know if you got a product.
I started…
I started it twice,
and because the…
I did this one.
The wife’s not really into it.
So I kind of have to wait till she’s asleep,
and then I go back to it.
But then it’s like 15 minutes,
so I never really get into it.
But I ain’t, I mean, Colin Farrell is…
He’s doing it.
It isn’t credit.
I don’t know how he didn’t win all the war.
Yeah, he’s leaving.
But the…
I’m not going to get…
I don’t know if I can tell you the spoilers.
Yeah, please don’t.
Let’s just say…
Anyways, it’s a dark show.
It’s like, has a lot of dark themes to it,
so it’s a tough…
It’s kind of a tough watch,
which made me…
made it so I couldn’t get through it very quickly.
But then when I finally did,
I was super happy.
But by the end of the show,
you understand why the Penguin is a bad guy.
And what he does to one of his enemies
is, essentially,
they tell him,
This is the one thing I just do not want.
Whatever happens to me,
all you got to do is not do this one thing.
And he says, “Yeah, of course.
I would never do that.
I would never do that.”
Obviously, the end of the show comes around
and he makes sure that one thing
that they said not to do to him or her
is what he does.
So people that watch the show,
they can kind of understand what I’m talking about.
And it’s super dark.
That is a great example of what they should have done
with YoR’s dad when he got fucking paralyzed.
It’s their start of torturing him every single day
and doing…
Being the shit out of them.
Because the way the past that he gets in this book is
does not make any fucking sense.
I would have just rolled him out in the lawn.
He just left him out there in the snow or something.
Just, I’m trying to think of all the things I’d have done.
But taking care of him for 20 years
is literally the last possible thing I would have done.
It makes no sense.
They’re like, “Yeah, he’s not a bad dude anymore.”
He’s like, “Yeah, he had major brain trauma.”
Like, he’s a vegetable.
Yeah, obviously, he’s not threatening anymore.
He also can’t beat you up.
So, yeah, obviously, he’s not threatening anymore.
It’s like, “But what kind of past did he get?
Why?”
That was kind of brushed over too.
Yeah, he’s just been taking care of my dad for the last 20 years.
Oh, the person that was relentlessly beating you
and your mom up for your whole childhood?
Yeah, that guy.
Oh, cool. That sounds fun.
What?
Huh?
So, take it from the Penguin show.
You’ll understand when you see it.
Don’t do that shit.
Do the worst puzzle thing ever.
So, stocked out for the Penguin show.
Stocked out for this dude.
Yeah, I think he did like
the, his dad did like the opposite of the Phineas gauge
if you’re familiar with that guy.
He had like a railroad spike accidentally go through his brain.
It’s like a famous, okay, famous story.
Okay.
And I think he ended up like having some like,
crazy personality side effects
where he like went a little,
went a little nutso.
Okay.
And it was like the opposite for
UR’s dad who had this terrible injury
and then became like a good guy.
And Darsal?
Yeah.
Well, obviously he can’t do anything, right?
Yeah, right.
But, yeah, I feel like their mindset was
the werewolf had its fangs and claws pulled out.
So, he can’t hurt you anymore.
He turned into the Voldemort that’s under the bench
at the railroad station and Harry’s dream kind of thing.
No, yeah.
He’s like, good boy, sure.
Yeah, like when Harry, when Harry pitties,
when Harry starts pitting Voldemort.
So, I think that, I mean, that’s obviously the idea.
But, I agree with you one billion percent.
You were about to stab this man to death.
Not, not shoot him from far away.
We’re talking, you’re about to get medieval on his ass
as they say in Pulp Fiction.
So, you’re gonna do that and instead you end up taking care of him
like wiping his butt and stuff.
At least let him sit in his own shit for a while, you know?
Smirred on his nose, you know, right under his nose.
Yeah, of course.
Giving the little, the Hitler stash from South Park
with his own poo.
Something, you know, like you said,
leaving outside with the sprinklers on,
accident, oh my bad, forgot, you’re out there.
That kind of thing.
Electroids to the nuts, something.
You know, you got to get him back for all of the trauma he had done to you.
That would have turned into, that’s actually pretty crazy,
kind of like horror-y type movie thing.
You’ve all the sudden it turns around on you and they’re torturing you.
It’s like that one book we read where the guy gets stuck in the attic.
Stuck in the, you’re trapped in the closet.
What do you mean?
Yeah, no, remember if you like traps the guy in the attic.
Oh, you have the housemate.
Yeah, the housemate.
Yeah.
It’s like, you did this to me for an hour.
I don’t know any other backstory,
but now I’m gonna make you use five days of torturing.
I was like, oh, that seems aggressive.
Yeah.
But I would be patient of done that for him in this.
Yeah, I agree with you.
My next stock up, all of a sudden, very serious.
Farts are funny.
It’s stock up, Farts, you know?
If you’re in a writer’s block and you don’t know what to do,
just listen to Fredrick Bachman and make a little fart joke.
You know?
It’s like, oh, by the way, I’m on a train.
Just farted.
And everyone laughs.
It always works.
You go back to, I’ve been rewatching the Simpsons a little bit,
you know, when I’m doing stuff here and there around the house.
Click, quick, 20 minute episodes.
And just put it on the phone, washing dishes, you know?
There are Simpsons on.
A lot of, a lot of fart stuff in there.
And it still hits.
Yeah.
Still hits.
Works great for me.
It’s like the video from the Simpsons where the guy throws a football into his nutty,
says, oh my, there’s nothing better than that.
It’s always funny.
Exactly.
It’s always funny.
So, yeah, I’m talking about, we barely even really
talked about the book, I guess, but.
We’ve got it.
But we’re 30 minutes in.
But let me ask you this, though, about the whole fart thing, which didn’t really.
We said, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Louisa has a postcard side version of the painting.
Uh-huh.
Yes, she somehow is able to see that there’s these four kids on a,
I mean, we don’t have an idea what the painting looks like,
but there’s four kids on a dock.
And that they’re laughing.
No one else notices this.
Like, everyone else misses the sounds that they’re laughing.
Looking at a full painting.
She has a postcard version of that painting.
And she’s the only one that notices that there’s kids there,
and that they’re laughing or something’s happening.
And then she just asked Ted, who is the one that farted?
That I’m nowhere.
There’s no context.
There’s nothing.
I’m like, how does it any of this add up?
It doesn’t, and Ted’s like, oh, it’s funny.
You said that.
Yeah, that’s exactly what the painting was about.
What?
Yeah, Keith.
He didn’t even paint it.
I always, he know that’s something to do.
Keith, she’s got the medical organs, all right?
Oh, yeah, she’s one of the children.
Yeah, exactly.
Good point.
All right, you’re right.
My mind.
They found one.
I found one just like us, another one.
Yeah.
I got something on that, like–
Yeah, it was in my lingering questions
how she was able to identify this, and honestly, no one else was.
Because you feel like the colors would pretty clearly
define that there are people there.
I would like to see a chat GPT rendition of what
this painting looked like to be able–
I mean, the point that he’s trying to make
is that none of these people are actually
looking at the painting.
They’re just liking it for its value, which
is back to our rich people thing.
So I get that point, but at the same time,
it’s a big painting.
I think so.
Whatever.
It’s big enough that people look at it.
You should be able to see if there’s three kids sitting
on a pier, you should be able to come out with, hey, at least
what is that?
Something.
You don’t have to be like, there are three kids sitting on a pier.
One of them just far to never once laughing.
But at least those bathing suits in there seem a little off
compared to what else is going on here.
What’s the deal?
So yeah, I’m with you.
It was my little group of questions
at how she was able–
I think the rest of it, her figure out they’re laughing,
and the fart was more of a–
she’s feeling the force within the painting.
Oh, yeah.
OK.
But–
That makes sense.
What my other startup was a found family?
I guess this is a bit more serious one,
but found family, stuck up to that.
You can’t use your family.
That’s what they say.
I guess that reminded of it every day,
if you’re in any of these kids’ households, which all seem
to have not great parents, some outright terrible, like you are.
Louisa has a troubled past, and fish obviously does as well.
Fish turns to drugs for coping, and then eventually
overdoses, which– there’s some beautiful language
around that in this book of people have read it,
but I’m thinking about–
You are Ted.
What was Ted’s mom?
No, mom–
or dad had cancer.
Yeah, dad was really sick.
Drank a lot with sick.
And his brother was–
His brother tortured him.
Yeah, his brother tortured him, and then they ended up being
fine.
We know all the not such a great situation for her either.
So yeah, these people didn’t have–
they were born into the families that really helped them
in any way, but they were able to find each other.
The older we get, the friends that we’ve had for so long–
it’s you look back at a collision, we’ve
been friend for 30 years.
Whatever the case is, you look at it and said, that’s crazy.
So that is really–
you are a really family to some degree at that point.
So yeah, found family.
I think that’s– it’s probably a point of this book, if you’re
like reading about stuff or whatnot, but yeah,
and who doesn’t love their friends, especially
when you give them nicknames, you fart on each other and stuff.
My last stocked up– or stock up, excuse me–
was feedback, stock up.
After listening to those interviews of Frederick Bachman,
the book looked very different in its first draft.
And this will probably make you dig your heels
and even more into your previous stance.
But the first draft, it didn’t have any of the Ted
Louise’s stuff.
It was just the kids.
So there wasn’t the two timelines going on.
It was just the kids.
And instead of the physical abuse being something
that you saw on them or you heard about,
you know, like you are showed up with bruises on them,
or hey, he said, my old man did this or whatever the case is.
The first draft he took you in–
so you were a witness to this physical abuse.
Like, you were there as the abuse was happening.
And–
So a more uplifting, that’s about one year’s end.
Somehow more uplifting.
Yeah, so–
which, and like all of–
to me, all the real funny parts was with Louise and Ted.
Like, that was where there was some good bits.
There was obviously a little bit with the kids,
but most of it was really Louise and Ted
in their relationship.
So it was just all terribleness.
And I guess he had Frederick Bachman
being he showed this first draft.
He was wife and some friends, and they were like,
this is terrible.
This is so dark.
And his wife pretty much said that you got demons.
Yeah, this is not a good–
there’s good stuff in here, but holy smokes.
This is a tough read.
And that’s when he went on his walk out into the woods
and said he had a mental breakdown and cried,
and then came back and re-wrote it.
And so thank you for that feedback.
Thank you for the feedback, because I’m
not sure what this book would be if it was just–
It was any darker than it is now.
I don’t know yet.
So yeah, yeah, stock up to feedback.
And the ability to take feedback, you know?
That’s important.
Did you have any other stocked outs?
Spence, stocked down.
I thought there was a bunch of big reveals, quote, unquote,
big in this book.
And I have no idea why they were big reveals.
It didn’t make any sense to me.
OK, so go on.
What are the big reveals?
The verses, like, the artist’s name.
They’re like, and then the artist came out,
and I was like, oh, shit, this is going to be crazy when they
really– I was going to be like, and then
Picasso is real name.
I was like, oh, shit.
You know what, when Robin Hood–
Robin is revealed to be in Batman 3 there.
Robin is revealed to be just a little bit cordoned.
Yeah.
He’s middle-sick.
Oh, I was like, oh, I’m going to go about my middle name.
Robin.
Yeah.
I was like, that’s a good name.
I was like, oh, you got your chills.
You’re like, oh, shit, that’s Robin.
Yeah.
This, they’re like, that’s Kim Kim.
And I’m like, who the fuck’s that?
Who is Kim Kim?
Why does that matter?
Why don’t we not reveal his name for three quarters of the book?
And then they’re like, and then you won’t believe it.
His name was Kim Kim.
It’s like, OK.
I felt like when I was reading it, they
kept referring to him as the artist.
I thought there was probably some sort of symbolism
or something along those lines that I didn’t understand.
And yeah, the Kim Kim reveal.
I was like, OK, cool.
Because I was wondering what his name is.
I was like, oh, C. Yacht wasn’t his name.
They did the name of Ali.
And they’re like, it wasn’t four boys.
It was a girl.
And I’m like, OK, who gives a shit?
What does that matter?
And then they’re like, and then they never met again
after that one day.
And they’re like, oh, shit, I wonder what happened.
Someone must have got stabbed.
And they’re like, no, no, nothing actually.
No one got stabbed, actually.
They just like, Ali moved away.
And I was like, OK.
So that was the big– the only actual good reveal
was literally one sentence of being like,
and then Ali was like, great surfer.
And then she died.
And I was like, what the hell?
And that was the last sentence?
I was just like, yeah.
And then they went on.
And I was like, wait, what?
So that was the only big reveal.
And it was an accident that they spent one sentence on.
Well, the big reveal was that you
already didn’t kill his dad, which
is what we assumed the entire time,
that the act of him killing his dad
is what split them all up in that he probably went to jail.
And they all then–
But it didn’t happen.
Yeah, exactly.
So there was no reveal.
There was a reveal in that we assumed that you are
killed his dad.
And then it was like, oh, no.
His mom killed his dad.
And then it was like, oh, wait, no.
His dad got hit in this horrific dock accident
because a bird landed on a crane potentially,
and it put a little too much weight on it,
and it crushed him or something along those lines.
So yeah, there was a reveal.
That was a reveal.
He didn’t kill his dad.
I mean–
I thought that was actually a good part when
they blended the two storyline timelines together,
because they were talking about the old times.
There was like all the flashback kind of thing.
And then all of a sudden, they ring the doorbell.
We think they’re going to see Christian’s mom,
and they open the door as you are.
And for a second, you’re like, wait, which timeline are we in?
And then you realize, oh, this is now it’s you are.
But he has an ankle bracelet on, so it’s like, OK.
So he didn’t go to jail forever,
but why does he have an ankle bracelet?
And it turns out he didn’t kill his dad.
And there’s nothing to do with any–
yeah, it’s just a random occurrence.
He was drinking and getting rowdy.
He’s a pusaccer who, again, who knows?
No, he beat up some person that was abusing their kid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he’s a good guy.
If we start the story with blood on his hands,
then I just assume he got killed by his dad.
That’s what I assumed.
That was the only thing that I assumed,
but then the open the door, and he’s alive.
And I was like, oh, he’s not dead then.
Yeah, there was a lot of blood for–
it was fake blood.
What was it?
What did they do?
Because they hid the bird.
I kind of got lost in that situation.
They hid the bird, and they put something else in the box.
I mean, that dude’s a good dude.
He needs to be taken care of for the rest of his life.
That’s all I have to say about that.
Seems like a good guy just killing birds for no reason,
or trying to at least.
My only stock down, because we already did rich art people,
was poetry stocked down?
I don’t get poetry.
So I’m not–
anytime someone’s like, oh, read this poem.
It doesn’t really do much for me.
I’m more of the idiot, like, give me a limmeric kind of thing.
Oh, you’re a famous poet.
Well, I am.
Are you pale like you brain this up all the time,
just so you can say that.
I am, I am published.
Yes, but whatever.
No, this, to me, say what you want about the book itself,
the things that happen, whatever the case is,
but the way that Fredrik Bachman writes,
that like describes things, I feel like that is poetry to me,
in that, oh, he has such a way with words,
that the way he uses like similes, or like metaphors,
whatever the case is, I don’t even know
how it comes up with that stuff.
And sometimes it does seem like they’re pretty extra.
Like he just keeps going on about it,
and there’s like a lot in a row.
This is like a this, this is like a this kind of thing.
But it’s stuff that I wouldn’t,
it brings those actions to life to me,
you know, or describes a situation,
and it brings it to life by attaching it to something else.
This is just what poetry is,
and I can get behind it, but more often than not,
I don’t understand it.
This is poetry to me.
Yeah, I will say he’s a very good writer,
and I think he uses a ton of like circular and callbacks,
like sign felt escomals in that sense,
but I do think that he does throw in a lot
of like big, momentous lines in there that are like,
yeah, you can quote that one.
Yeah.
He throws in probably like a hundred lines that are like,
someone’s gonna get that like tattooed on their arm,
or have that as their, you know.
High school, yeah.
– High school quote, and I’m like, all right,
give me like three or four of those.
You can’t be throwing out this many in there, but.
They come that easy to them.
It’s like, you shit, what am I gonna do?
Not use it?
– Yeah, I could never go up with one of them,
so that’s off to them.
I’ll give them that.
Did you have any of those stocked out?
I had two quick ones.
I talked about this last one,
famous artist stocked out.
The whole premise would make a lot more sense
for this book if it was a famous musician or tennis player,
or something where like they’re famous,
but.
Tennis player.
– Oh, it just saying like, let’s say it’s a prodigy tennis player,
but they come from a poor neighborhood,
so they don’t have the ability to, you know,
get to the main thing.
Yeah, I got to say it.
– I think like, I’m saying.
– It’s just an interesting sport to choose.
– Well, I’m just saying like any sports or anything,
you know.
But like, there’s no such thing as a famous artist.
Like, you just can’t name one.
I mean, maybe not in the circles we run in,
but like, they’re like, there goes that guy
that’s walking on the street, that doesn’t happen.
yeah.
– So it doesn’t make a ton of sense?
– Yeah, like you said, when we were the finishing up our last pod,
the only one that we could think of was Banksy
and still no one knows.
No one knows it.
– Doesn’t know what’s the other thing.
– That’s like, still a thing.
So, yeah, no one would be walking down the street.
Be like, oh, watch out.
That’s C-Y-A-T.
– And it’s like, hey, get some guys.
and then my last one was just being an adult stockdown
and this kind of messes with my biggest hate.
The problem with this book is it’s super, super cynical,
but in my view, in all the wrong ways.
Like, I think I love being cynical towards an organization
or a lifestyle or whatever the case is, right?
Like where you can kind of rally people and be like,
hey, this is not the way people should act in the real world.
This is how we fix it.
This book is just like, once you become an adult,
everything in life sucks.
There’s nothing good about being an adult’s are terrible.
They’re all horrible human beings.
Only thing that’s good is being a kid and having friends.
Outside of that, if you aren’t an incredible artist
or have a super loyal group of friends,
your child would probably suck also
and you’re going, oh, adulthood’s gonna suck.
It’s like, what the hell?
There’s nothing positive to come from this book,
not one positive thing other than,
if you’re an amazing artist,
you have a chance to be famous, I guess.
I don’t know.
So, it’s not down being an adult.
– Yeah, I think the only positive aspect,
well, the positive aspect is, it’s about friendship,
you know, the idea that even through all of the shittiness,
you know, good group of friends can kind of pull you–
– But isn’t the point of like,
do you have to be friends with them anymore?
I want your adults.
You’re barely talking to each other anymore?
– Yeah, but don’t you feel that with some people
that you’re friends with, that you don’t talk to them
very much, but then you have those situations
like you are in Ted when you eventually see each other
after a long time and you’re shitting on each other,
but you also know that there’s an underlying,
like the shitting isn’t mean spirited.
It’s, you know, it’s almost joking
and you still, you know, you have that bond
because it’s cemented.
I think that’s the point is when your kids,
well, maybe that’s the point of the book,
but the point of my mind is when your kids
and you have these friendships,
they almost like cement there and then they stay that way
no matter how old you get.
So anytime you see each other,
you just kind of go back to that, how it was then
unless you guys do something terrible to each other
or something later on in life.
– But isn’t it dribbin’ home like throughout the book
that oh, that when we were 14,
that was the best part of our lives?
Like that was the greatest thing ever.
We never gonna have that again.
So now we’re adults and maybe we’ll see each other
once every three years and maybe we’ll be okay
for like half a day.
It’s like, oh geez.
– Yeah, but when we were 14, wasn’t that like the best?
Like, you know, you’re playing Xbox
or you’re just playing video games,
having sleepovers, watching movies, you know?
– There’s no positives in this book.
That’s my hope, unless you’re 14 right now
in reading this book and you’re like,
well, I gotta live it up.
This is the best year I’ll ever have.
Other than that, there’s no time machine, so I don’t know.
– Yeah, I wonder what like 14-year-old me would be,
if I talked to him, I was like,
hey, this is what I’m doing on a day to day.
He’d be like, wow, you’re fucking boring as hell, you know?
This is what I’ve become.
– Great, and I don’t think I wasn’t doing
any of these spectacular then,
but at the same time, it’s like,
so you just, you work for a company and then
you put on some cans and you sit with one of your friends
and you chat about books and then you go golfing
by yourself in the morning, that’s it?
I’m like, well, I cleaned some dirty diapers here and there too.
So yeah, maybe they got it right.
Maybe they got it right that way.
(laughs)
(dramatic music)
what about favorite part or favorite storyline?
YoR was definitely by far my favorite character.
– Oh, okay, I wouldn’t even say favorite character
for you just to do your part.
Oh, Yeah, sorry.
– But it’s kind of ties in with my favorite part too.
I think just him, his mentality of,
yeah, I’m not gonna really fight for myself.
I’m not gonna get in trouble for myself,
but if one of you says anything bad about my friends,
it’s go time, throwing Fisticas right away,
which I love that, he’s very selfless person.
And then I think the best part too is really the shitty teacher.
Again, this is like why adults suck is like,
the teacher is the only job is to build people up.
And when the most inspirational adult is a drag-conticted
janitor who is like on streams or something,
thinking about dragons and inspiring people,
that’s your most healthy relationship with adult.
That’s an issue.
The teacher was terrible,
but YoR picking a fight with them and being like,
calling them shitty names,
getting him a nickname and stuff like that.
That was great.
I like YoR, loved that whole fight between the two of them too.
– Yeah, YoR is definitely,
anyone that sticks up for their friends.
And he’s not a big guy, he’s just a bulldog.
But if you’re also just used to getting beat up
by a grown man all the time,
he’s like, what is this kid gonna do to me?
– Yeah, that’s just, that’s just doesn’t matter.
YoR’s great.
I had a love hate relationship with Louisa.
There were some aspects of her that I’ve really enjoyed,
the way that she kinda talked to Ted or,
I think you probably would have some on-bridge
with the, her taking his money and buying stuff with it
and then being like,
(laughing)
– All right, yeah, we’re good.
– Yeah, well that is like, that’s what money is like.
– Yeah, but like I buy you, you’re not gonna say thank you.
I thought it was funny, so I enjoyed it,
but it was also like, wow,
that’s why the love hate aspects was like, wow,
this is, is this an entitled, but also like,
shitty kid?
Or is she fun, like did she know it’s a joke?
Like was she in on it?
Or was she serious?
(laughing)
– I think if she was eight, everything she does,
if she were eight years old, it’d be cute and it’d be,
oh this kid, like, it’s kinda,
it’d be like, leave it to be her kinda thing.
She’s 18, she’s an adult and you’re like,
oh no, she’s just such shitty person.
Like that’s all she is.
I’m like, I don’t, I didn’t get it.
Maybe it was just the fact that she felt So comfortable
the way she talked to adults.
I could never talk like that to an adult when I was 18, you know?
No.
– And then you realize when you become adults,
you’re like, oh, we’re just older versions of the,
we’re the same person, we’re just older, you know what I mean?
Like, you don’t necessarily think about it like that,
when you’re a kid, you’re like, oh, even if you’re 18,
you’re like, oh, shoot, like, let me make sure I’m, you know,
saying the right things around the guy,
she just doesn’t care.
She’s putting her feet up on the train
and living her best life, saying, what a cute baby,
that kind of thing.
And I would be sitting there and not speaking
unless I was spoken to a kind of thing.
I do love that we first get introduced to her
and she’s vandalizing, I thought it was a church
for them reason, but it’s not.
– It might be, I forget, but it’s not.
Wherever it is.
And then she’s assaulting two of the security guards
and then she runs up on Kim Kim and she’s like,
I’m an innocent little girl and I’m like, wait,
she just bit and punched the shit of a security guard,
and she, I’m innocent.
All right, I guess.
So yeah, like I said, if she was eight years old,
I think everything she did in the book would be cute
and now it’s like, no, you’re kind of a shitty person.
– Yeah, so yeah, she’s like,
Bart Simpson or leave it to be her,
but she’s a grown ass person.
So, when you start thinking that,
you’re like, oh, I’m not sure.
(dramatic music)
All right, let’s get some love hates Keith,
what’d you love about my friends?
you already talked about it.
I think he’s just a really, really good writer.
– Yeah, that’s fine.
– So I don’t know why he thought that he’s,
I don’t thought the subject matter in the overall story.
I think I’ve already bemoaned a little bit here,
but I wasn’t a huge fan of it,
but I will never criticize his writing.
I think his writing is very, very, well done, so.
– And it’s a stakes.
– I mean, it’s also funny to talk about,
if you read the anxious people,
you know who wrote it,
and then 10 years later, you read this book,
you’d be like, I feel like I know the,
you know the same person touched them.
So he’s got a very unique and interesting way of writing,
so appreciate it.
Agreed, yeah.
what do you think about the dual timelines?
‘Cause I liked them.
Yeah, No, I liked the dual timelines any time They do that.
Okay.
– Yeah, and it didn’t really dawn on me
until maybe halfway through,
maybe it’s not supposed to,
but it’s Ted telling the story to Louisa
as they’re on the train, right?
Is that’s how,
that’s how we’re learning about the backstory.
It’s Ted telling it to Louisa,
and then at the end, you know,
she tells him if you go write a book,
and he’s like, what would I even write about?
So the book is Ted’s writing of the beating
of the Louisa story,
while also then telling her about his previous life
as a child, which is, right?
Did I get that right?
Yes, I believe so.
I think there’s some holes in it in the story
because we’re hearing it from Ted,
and then she’s only telling her certain things.
Well then you are tells her some pieces of it too.
– Yeah, ’cause you are a Phil’s in it,
and then I think also like Christian’s mom might tell her
some of the backstory as well.
But yeah, I liked the two stories.
I think it was well done.
It felt like it flowed well.
And then, you know, like I said before,
they collide with the one, when they actually meet you are,
and that’s when Ted kind of stops telling the story,
and you are picks it up or Christian’s mom
or whatever the case is.
So yeah, I love that.
What else, what else you got?
I like the janitor he mentioned.
you like first gin, drown his skulls?
just being like, Yeah man, do my job for me.
I’m fucking going off completely on LSD or Shrooms
or something right now.
I’m just like, all right, that sounds good.
– Also, who the fuck is this art teacher, the owl,
that they hire them to do like to teach art?
There’s, I feel like art teachers are probably
on the whole, the least douche baggery of teachers, right?
There are always a little out there.
It’s odd for this like the art teacher to be
the asshole in the whole thing.
I feel like sometimes They are a little bit
Pretentious, maybe. – Pretentious, Maybe
like 20 years, you pretend you’re,
and they have like kids aren’t listening to them
and they don’t see them any talented people,
so they probably are pretty annoyed.
But then when you see a talented person,
you feel like you got to
– Yeah, so he’s like, draw, I can’t remember what it was,
but it’s like draw butterfly.
And instead Kim Kim, presumably because he’s a great artist,
draws something that is beautiful,
but it’s not a butterfly, but it’s like,
this is how a butterfly makes me feel
or something along those lines.
– Who cares if there’s a butterfly in an artist
would eat that up too?
yeah. – that would bug a love there.
– And if I can remember what I used to do in art class,
if someone’s like draw a butterfly,
it looked like a five year old droid.
I’m drawn to the cigar shaped body,
putting some antennas on and some,
you’re not getting anything good from anybody.
It’s not like there’s a bunch of savants
and this is the juliard of painting or whatever,
this isn’t next level, it’s a high school freshman,
high school art class.
So if someone’s drawing anything that looks nice,
it should be like, oh, that’s great,
but this guy’s got his own issues, I guess,
and it’s just a dick.
Yeah, I hate to see that.
– He’s an adult kid.
– Yeah, I know, he’s got issues.
– He’s got issues.
I loved that, it was just a wholly unique story.
It’s fresh IP and for, I love movies,
I watch a lot of movies, sorry, I used to,
I watch less now, but I do love them.
And, like I saw centers recently, do you see centers?
Yes.
– Yeah, so it’s obviously a vampire movie, spoiler alert,
but it’s a vampire movie,
so there are some vampire tropes in there,
but I just really enjoyed that it was a unique story.
I’m so sick of seeing just reused IP over and over again,
it’s superhero movie, superhero movie, superhero movie,
and I’ve been watching some older movies lately
and enjoying them wholeheartedly and be like, wow, this is,
this is like, it’s a story that is not from a book,
or based on a book or based on a superhero,
based on some sort of IP, it’s just something
that someone came up with.
So the idea that he can kind of come up with a story,
whether you love it or not,
I just love the idea of it being
a fresh intellectual property,
and he does this with all of his books.
And it’s interesting to me that there’s
so much of this in the book space,
and I guess it’s because of the, you know,
the movies are, they cost a lot of money
and you gotta go into the big screen,
but even there’s so many streaming options now,
it feels like there can be good movies
that aren’t just remakes of the old stuff.
Do you see the Nicholas Cage movie, Pig?
No, good.
Great movie, phenomenal movie.
And it didn’t go to theaters or other cases,
and I didn’t even know what it was about,
but I was like, oh, this Nicholas Cage got a beard
and he looks like the unabomber,
like sure, I’ll check it out.
And I was like, wow, this is just a good movie.
Like, why don’t they come up with this?
So, Freda Brockman’s stock up just for coming up with
– Yeah, and there wasn’t a ton of plot.
So the fact that he made it so, life’s like,
I think it definitely does.
Yeah, exactly, just people on a train telling a story
and then it’s not, you know, you’re not in depth
with these kids, it’s kind of just living
and what’s going on in the summer.
My last two were just awesome movie references,
but there’s definitely a couple of good, well hunting.
If you’re still here, we brought that up a few times,
but there’s a couple of times where they’d like,
talk to the Kim Kim, be like, bro,
you don’t know this town here,
so if you’re fucking still here,
– Oh yeah. – 20 years, I’ll fucking kill you.
That’s not a threat, I’ll fucking do it.
Yeah, for sure.
So what are you still doing here?
When they bring her by the museum,
it’s like, you’ll be in there.
He’s like, I’m not good enough.
It’s like, you’ll be in there.
and then the taxi driver was just Yoda?
I didn’t understand that part, but.
– She was talking in reverse sentences,
the taxi driver didn’t have to text them up.
So that was your hate?
No, that was her in that two last love.
Oh, you can love the Yoda taxi driver.
Yeah, I like the two references
for the Star Wars and–
Yeah, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good.
I feel like I should ask you your hates
because I didn’t really have a ton of hates, honestly.
The first half of this book, it was a slog.
It really was.
And the second half,
I think I started to like get in with the characters
and like we started to feel each other out.
And although it wasn’t what we’re normally reading,
I started to enjoy it more and then, at the end,
I just, I liked it.
So, I feel like you didn’t feel that way.
– No, I already kind of went over a bunch of my hates,
I think that I dragged in.
I think a couple other things.
Anxious people was kind of uplifting.
This was downlifting.
And if you weren’t one of us,
I thought that was kind of more of an exclusive–
– Yeah, it was at the end, she’s like,
“Oh, we found one of us.

1388
00:49:55,080 –> 00:49:55,920
I found another one of us.”””
– Yeah, it’s like, yeah, you’re only important
if you’re a famous, like if you’re a really talented artist.
It’s like, “Oh, that’s, I never really liked the concept
“of like the, I’d rather hear a story about you are

1393
00:50:06,640 –> 00:50:08,360
than a fucking famous dude.”””
I mean, like, if you’re talented, great.
The person that picks up the talented person
makes them talented, that’s more impressive than me.
And then there’s a big issue with me
and it’s more because I maybe I’m an idiot,
but train conductor, I always thought
that was the person that was operating the train.
When he said train conductor, I was like,
Oh, yeah, they got this drive in the train.
I think I was just from when I was a kid,
I always assumed conductor meant, like,
you know, the person was going, “Woo, woo, woo,
with a whistle.
– Yeah, they’re conducting.
I thought he was driving the train.
you saw when he was walking the train.
– When he was walking around, you’re like,
Hold these shit, he was driving the train.
– I was like, “Why is it?”
I was like, “It’s like that movie train.”
Unstoppable, yeah.
– Yeah, so I was like, “What’s going on?”
Then I looked it up, I’m like,
Oh, it must be a bad translation.
I looked it up and I was like,
“Train conductor does not do anything

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00:50:51,520 –> 00:50:52,280
with driving the train.”””
I was like, “What the hell?
Am I an idiot?
So I’m upset about that, mostly.
(laughs)
– Yeah, he’s like walking the halls and you’re on the train,
you’re freaking out, you’re like, “What’s going on?”
There were a lot of train conductors
when we were growing up reading books.
I don’t know what happened to them,
but they were like every book.
– That’s true.
A lot of train conducting,
George Carlin was a train conductor.
Oh Yeah, great.
So what is it as an engineer that drives the train?
– Yeah, it’s a terrible name.
I was like, “Wait, that’s it?”
Yeah.
So a conductor just goes around and checks tickets
and kicks people off and I don’t have their tickets.
– That’s pretty much it, I thought.
Conductor makes it sounds like they’re
making something happen, conducting.
A conductor to an orchestra,
that’s driving the whole orchestra,
not taking the tickets of the people where they’re sitting.
Yeah, imagine.
You’re at an orchestra and you just say,
“You’re at a concert and you just steps down

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00:51:43,000 –> 00:51:46,280
and starts punching tickets and they just play.”
I had a couple of lingering questions.
Where does it all take place?
Does it take place in Sweden?
– It’s a great question.
I don’t think so because of the amount of violence.
(laughs)
– There’s not a lot of violence in Sweden.
– I don’t think so.
I don’t think this has been the US,
just based off that,
but there wasn’t enough guns for the US.
Yeah, There should be more guns.
People just shooting each other.
Yeah, Maybe like Germany or something like that.
Maybe there.
What’s the type of name as you are?
Is that Swedish?
– I don’t know.
English, Scottish, Mourish.
That’s our Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
I think it’s in Scandinavia.
I think it’s gotta take a take a place up there.
– I thought they’re all super happy up there.
Guess not, I guess he wrote this book.
They got sad.
They got sad up there
because it gets dark for like six months a year.
So I’ll lead Drowned.
She became a famous surfer and then Drowned.
Did you get the vibe that went out there on purpose?
I was getting the vibe that it was more of the Johnny Yuta
once in a lifetime wave type Vig
where she was like,
you only see this type of wave once, paint me.
You know what type of thing?
That’s what I felt.
I wasn’t like she was like,
’cause she’s supposed to be a prolific surfer.
So she’s not just gonna like,
trip and all of a sudden die.
I think she just was like, went after the big one.
You know, there’s not much for any
perfect storm kind of vibe.
Oh, god Yeah, go down with this shit.
Yeah, 100%.
Okay.
– It’s like my fantasy team’s like,
he’s about saying this here.
People are trying to trade for me.
I think they’re all like, oh and for it.
I’m like, I’m going down with the shit captain.
love that.
So on the whole, who’s the book for and would you recommend it?
But I also want to get a take of,
if you liked, like, it doesn’t seem like you liked this one.
Like at all.
I Did not like the book.
Took me a really long time to read
just because I never looked forward to reading it at all.
yeah.
it was a chore.
We talked about red rising,
how you just more of like,
you put a warm blanket on when you’re reading
or listening to it and this one,
I was like,
like blanket, I put a Trojan.
I was like, how many hours left do I have?
I was like, I have to be like, how many hours do I have left?
I have to say a thing and this one.
It just took a long time.
It was super depressing.
I can get into a book that’s the Nazis are the reason
that everything’s bad in the world
and then they rally against that
and you’re super cynical because of the Nazis.
Great, I can get into that.
But if you use like life is terrible,
I’m like, all right, this is fucking,
like, what can you do?
There’s nothing you can do.
Why do I want to read this?
I also wanted to give two acting character acting
this way.
Oh, Okay.
Real quick, Louisa.
I think this is like,
I don’t know if you’ve watched Haley’s “Stinefields”
early stuff you mentioned.
I know, sorry, centers.
– Well, I saw a true grid.
– Yeah, that’s what it really says.
– This is her character and true grid
and all of like her movies aren’t she as younger.
She plays Louisa, like the overtalkative,
like talks to adults the same way as,
Okay.
Yeah, okay, would.
And then I had Rami Malik for a Ted,
which I’m not the biggest fan of his
but he plays that character.
little bugage, like works out.
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
But anyway, I would,
I mean, I think this is like a pure book club book.
Yeah, definitely a book club book.
– It’s a book club book.
I gave it a 2.25.
I think the writing was great
and if you look back at it from a hundred feet,
oh, you did a really good job with this
but it just was too depressing and not,
it is, I didn’t want to read it.
– 2.25, how do five?
– Yeah, you can’t really give it over anything average.
I had to be slightly below average for me.
– Okay, yeah, I mean,
I would, for those same points,
I would give it an above average,
I thought it was, you know, the writing’s really good.
So I think from that, it immediately gets a 2.5
and then does this, did I like the story?
Like not so much at the beginning.
It gets a little boost for me
because I did eventually enjoy it.
So I would probably give it like, you know,
275 to 3 range,
probably below 3, just below, just below.
So I liked it.
I do feel the same way that you did, though,
where I was like, I was dying to pick it up
and know what was going on,
but when I was reading it,
I felt like I was listening to the story
and I was involved in it.
It wasn’t just, oh my God, get this thing over with, you know?
And I feel like we’ve read so many books
that even though it can be the opposite
where the story could be interesting,
like the house made you brought up,
it’s like, oh, this could be an interesting story
but it was just so poorly done
that I was like, I’m just not enjoying this.
So this was kind of the opposite.
We’re so well done and I wasn’t so into the story
but I still enjoyed it.
And yeah, I would say a billion percent
that is like a legit book club book,
like, you know, at the back of the book,
there’s probably questions that you should be asking
your book club people.
So who I would recommend it to is like,
I’ll tell my mom to listen to this one,
she’ll love it.
– It’s one of those books that someone would be like,
oh my God, you have to read it.
It wouldn’t have cradip a book.
I was like, what’d you like about it?
It’s like, it’s just, it’s incredible.
They’ll never give in any like answer for it.
It’s just like, it’s beautiful.
– Yeah, it’s like the art
that people want.
It’s like they’re just,
virtue signaling or something, you know?
Oh yeah. – yeah.
– It’s so good. – Yeah, you’re like, why?
It’s like the language, the way you have to understand
the plight of these destitute children.
Okay, cool.
Well, that was my friends.
Call Keith, if you have issues with half of the things
that he said, they,
– All those things are cut, so it’s fine.
And what do we call it when I say this?
– And next we got Demand’s favorite.
It’s, what is it?
Legend.
Legend by Marie Lou, I think it is.
Yeah, Marie Lou.
– Yeah. – It’s a quick one,
only a seven hour eight hour read,
so I’m actually 41% done.
It’s going by quick.
– Yeah, it’s definitely going by quick.
easy, easy, easy.
I looked at it as a holy shit.
I’m like 75% away there, like holy shit.
All right, we’ll talk about legend next time.
Keith, great talk to you.
That was my friends and we’ll catch everyone for legend.
Indeed.
All right. – All right.
Bye now.
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