The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo – Taylor Jenkins Reid – Episode 34

The Buddies are so dedicated to the craft, that some say they are married to the game. But Evelyn Hugo is 7x more dedicated, as they find out in the most recent book: The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid. The Buddies chat about acting vs. real life, beards (not the hipster kind), making tough decisions, and much, much more in their second foray into TJR’s work. Want the confidence of Evelyn Hugo looking in a mirror and righteousness of Celia St. James, join us as we unlock those secrets.

Intro: (0:00-1:34)
Stock Up/Down (1:35-31:51)
Favorite Scene (31:52-34:23)
Favorite Character (34:24-38:08)
Love/Hate/Listener Email (39:09-48:55)
Casting the Movie (48:56-54:31)
Conclusion (54:32-56:42)

Next Book: ‘SALEM’S LOT by STEPHEN KING

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

All right. Welcome, Buddy Book Club. I’m Dylan here with epitome of style and Grace, also a sex bot. Keith. What’s up, buddy? You didn’t add rake in there, which I am, of course, as well. What’s a rake? I don’t know what that is. Celia’s brother in the book is described as a rake, someone that just like, rakes in girls. That’s a sick term. Described as okay, you didn’t need to agree with that one. You’re like, I’m not adding that to that well enough for me. I’m a one woman guy. Keith all right. Yeah, I hear you. I’m a pickaxe or something. You’re a host, right? But it’s a single, not a multiple one. Yeah. Okay. Well, here at the Buddy Book, love it out, some best sellers. And this week, we’ll be discussing Taylor Jenkins Reid’s hit novel, the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo. If you like to recommend a book for us to read or reach out to us about any past episodes, you can visit our website, bibucloud.com, or sign to our DMs on Twitter or Instagram. But I book a podcast. You can listen to us on itunes and spotify. So please download and subscribe. So The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo is pretty much a PSA for Mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving and while at the same time being kind of like a blueprint for how to cover up a murder, correct? Yeah. I would say the prime story is got you. Yeah. That’s the hook. That’s what it’s all about. Okay, as long as we’re on the same page, let’s get into some stock up. Stock down. Seven husbands. Evelyn, Hugo, what do you got first? Stock up. Being an actor. Yeah. So obviously there’s tons of beneficial things about being an actor. The money, it’s a cool profession. It’s not a job. It’s just like, show up and you’re being an actor. But the one thing that I’ve heard about actors in general is they have kind of this massive insecurity issue with they have to always audition for their roles. They kind of always needed that attention. But not everyone you go, no. Get multiple points in the book. She looks in the mirror and she’s like, goddamn, I’m hot. Like god damn, I look good. And I’m like, really? Must be really nice. So the one thing I feel like most people have and which probably makes it a little bit hard for people to relate to Evelyn, is that insecurity, where she just doesn’t have any of it, just zero. Yes. Maybe stock up. Just irrational confidence. If she was born in today’s day and age, she’d just be an instagram model. Right. Those people that are, like, doing selfies and shit all day, that’s the only people that have that type of confidence. Right? Maybe, but she had to drive. Like, she wanted to do this since she was a kid. She had the ability to take the risks needed for this. I mean, she even says in the book, like, she doesn’t regret anything. And then a lot of the early stuff is her marrying her first husband, just basically to get her foot in the door, like to get out to La. That was pretty much it. He was a gaffer or something like that. He was a gaffer’s boy and was able to get out to La. And somehow sneak into the movie industry. Granted, it was like, through waitressing or whatnot. So she has some gumption. I don’t want to no, I like Evelyn a lot. It’s just that the one negative I feel like that actors typically have is the insecurity part, and she just didn’t have any of it. So what’s the negative of being an actor at that point? Yeah, for sure. Like the Tom Cruise, I’m five foot four, so I have to wear wedges and join Scientology to feel like I’m a superstar. I’ve heard Tom Cruise is super weird in person. It’s almost like he’s trying to act like a human. You’d be like, what would a human do in this situation? It’s like oh, high five. And he goes up, like Zuckerberg vibes. I think to be that successful in any profession, you have to be really weird. You can’t be a normal human because you’re kind of like a caged animal a little bit. Everyone’s always looking at you and fucked up with your mind. I think that’s fair, especially in today’s day and age. Just the spotlight is huge. I actually saw a video recently of it was, like, on Reddit of Shakira. She was on a tour in Japan and someone gave her it was showing her a flip phone that had a camera function and a video function. Obviously, this is a really long time ago, and she was blown away by it, obviously, like we all were. But the first thing she said is, oh, hopefully the paparazzi don’t get their hands on any of these things. But she didn’t realize that the paparazzi was going to become every single person. Yeah, right. My buddy was recently traveling and was in Singapore, and I guess there was like a Kpop star that was in the terminal. He sent a video, a meta video of a video kind of thing, of people, every single person in that airport just running to this terminal gate, all holding their phones as high as they could in the air, like, hoping to get a shot. It’s like, wow, that is fucking wild. I feel like there should be a list of, like, three celebrities that’s it that you’re allowed to bother and say, I need a photo. That’s it. Like, you can’t have more than that. Otherwise interesting. You’re like, hey, sorry to bother you. You’re on my list, actually. You show it to them. It’s like in some concrete passport, like your government issue every year. You’re allowed to update it. Okay, well, we got a little off the rails, but I enjoyed that. Stock up for me is being drop dead gorgeous. Mind, similar mind we can go through pretty quickly, and I don’t want to take anything, once again, away from Evelyn Hugo. She definitely put the effort in, but a lot of the early success and even some of the later success was just based on the fact that she was so hot. So hot. I appreciate her talent and obviously she became a good actress. That takes a lot of skill. And nothing is just made off of looks. But any study you look at, whether it be for acting or for a shitty office job, if you’re better looking, you get the job. So thank God there’s plastic surgery, because I’ll need some. So stop up. It’s coming from the guy that looks like Johnny Depp. Okay. No, keep going. I got a face for radio. That was my stuck up. Good on you. Evelyn hugo. What do you have next? Yeah, I saved my little darker one for the second one, just in case anyone is listening and we can get past this. But my second stock up is Forrest Gump. Kid stock up. Everyone sees, you know, those memes out there, forest comps. And it’s like, had sex once, has a kid, potentially gets AIDS. You know what I’m talking about? Yes, I did. Okay. But apparently the director, by the way, has never confirmed that she had AIDS. What? Yeah, he said it was like an immune disease, but we don’t know what it is. I don’t know. Weird. She’s doing a lot of drugs. It’s probably could be anything. Well, Evelyn, she had sex once, ruins her relationship with Cecilia because of it. And unlike Forrest Gump kid, who gets a lot of shit and Forrest gets a lot of shit, the kid isn’t smart because he was never born because he got aborted. Wait, what are you talking about? She has sex with the one night stand guy in Vegas, gets pregnant and then aborts the baby. Too dark. Right. No, I got that. So, anyways, sorce Gums kids stock up. Once again, in typical fashion. I’m not following the logic, but I’m glad that you’re passionate about it. I’m saying, everyone talks about a forest comes. It’s like the worst luck, right? You have sex once you have a kid. Really, the worst luck is Evelyn. She ruined a relationship and then never even had a kid over it. Yeah, okay. Sure. I got you. I’m going to keep with the same theme as I was going with and Stock Up. Brief Nudity back in the day. I feel like the Brief Nudity stock is down because back in the day, meaning when you’re a twelve to 14 year old boy, you see Brief Nudity coming up on HBO, and you’re like, oh my God, I got to see when this is going to happen. You’re watching Species and you’re like, I know it’s coming up at some point, but now TV is a little more at least in America, it’s a little more lax with that stuff. So it’s like every episode of Game of Thrones was brief nudity. Anytime you’re watching HBO brief nudity, it’s like, okay, whatever. But brief nudity. In the book Skyrockets, evelyn’s career after Bodontan. And so she shows not even full breast, which I asked my girlfriend. I was like, because we’re listening to this together in the car on a road trip. And I asked her, they said they didn’t show full breast. So what did they show, though? She thought it stopped at the nipple. She was saying, oh, so there’s no nipple. It stopped right above the nipple. And I was thinking it stopped below the nipple, but above the bottom of the breast. Okay, so it’s really the nipple. Was it or was it how was it panning? It’s panning down. Obviously, if it pan side to side, you’d see one breast. No, it could be painting from her head down or from her legs down. Legs up, brother. Legs down is a different kind of entity. I’m under the impression it was panning head down. So are you on there was no nipple in Booth on Troll? Or was there nipple? I think it was one of those ones where it was like artistically shot, where if you pause it, which some of us may or may not have done when we were younger, certain movies at a certain scene, you could see it, but otherwise you couldn’t see it. Did I see that or not? Kind of glimpse. I think it was very clear that it was not a full breast, so it wasn’t shown. So let’s say it’s Caroline’s, right? And it stopped above the nipple. That’s really good to have that elevate your career and really get you all of the gigs. Considering you really didn’t show much that you wouldn’t see from wearing a low cut dress or something along that line. And considering Evelyn’s, as she says, her biggest asset, pun intended, is her breasts, I think that’s probably a win. And then I was wondering, like, hey, have there been other actresses I was just doing some research. I was saying, have there been other actresses who showing nudity kind of started their career. And I got a few. We got Natasha. Hestridge henstridge. I think it’s henstridge from Species Movie. That was the first movie she was in. She showed her breasts and continued to get jobs, including she’s the Wife in Whole Nine Yards. Very good movie, if you ask me. We got Kathleen Turner and Body Heat. Haven’t seen it, but, you’d know, Kathleen Turner, that was her first role. She eventually, like, two years later, turned into Romancing the Stone, which was like a big hit and then continued to have a career. And most importantly, we have Charlie Stone, who her first movie not considering like, Children of the Corn Three, which she had an appearance in, was two days in the valley, which supposedly I haven’t seen this, but supposedly she also goes nude in that. And we all know her career has been phenomenal. All these women are great actresses. Natasha hence, not so much, but they showed some parts of their body and their careers took off from there. So good for them. Stock up to all of you. I liked that rundown. I was well researched. Yeah, I did. And I got to go scrape the plaster off the walls. Okay, what else do you have for stock up? That was it for stock up. I had beards, which not like hipster IPA kind. The beards here we’re talking about are from Wikipedia describing a person who is used knowingly or unknowingly as a date, romantic partner, boyfriend or girlfriend or spouse, either to conceal infidelity or to conceal one sexual orientation. And that’s what we’re talking about here, because the happiest time of this book is when there’s big beard energy. Not only is Evelyn does she have a beard in Harry, I was like, Hank. Why did you say Hank? Yeah, so she had Harry, Celia had John, and they were both each other’s beards. Is there a better situation where two gay couples are dating each other but then married, quote unquote, to the straight side or whatever so that the media doesn’t know? I mean, that whole media thing is annoying on its own. We’ll talk about that later. But it’s a great situation for them. They can go out with their loved ones, like, oh, this is my parents best friend. And worst case, people are like, maybe they’re swingers, maybe they’re swinging, but no one’s thinking that they’re just completely with their partner’s wife or whatnot. So stock up to beards because heck yeah. And I also had to explain what a beer was to my girlfriend, and that was really fun in the car because she had no idea it was cool to have, like, a best friend’s group. It’s like a great group of friends. They can do double dates all the time. And like you said, they’re all good friends with each other. Plus, for me, I’m personally thinking about the sports implications. So I’m like, wow, you guys want to go play doubles tennis? Like, you’re good to go. You want to play some spike ball, you’re good to go. Like anything. Well, you also pro athlete, so, I mean, that’s going to be a little tough. Yeah, it’s going to be very one sided. That’s fair. It also seemed like Celia was more sporty Spice than Evelyn, so it definitely would have been a weird team. Like, how would they figure out the team situation? But even if you want to play cards or you want to play a board game, you got four people. No, it’s great stock up beards. And especially if you’re in a situation with this, too. What do you have for stock down? Stock down. Tough choices. Monique at the beginning of the book has to choose a really tough choice. Her job at the magazine, where she’s lowest on the tone of a $12 million book deal in the near future. She’s like, I don’t know. I have to determine this. And I’m like, what? At the beginning of the book, I was, like, almost turned off. I was like, what are we doing here, Monique? Like, the magazine industry is dying. The blog industry is skyrocketing, aka buddy Book club.com, but we’re going to stick it out. At the bottom of the total poll is at a magazine when you know what’s going to help your resume is taking this book deal and then publicizing to everyone, hey, I have a huge book deal coming out with this. Do you want me as a writer and your staff? Yeah, that’s going to be huge publicity for us. Why would we not want you take the $12 million? And it’s not even a decision. It’s the easiest choice of all time. At one point, she was like, I don’t know if I’m going to take it. I was like, what? What are you doing? Yeah, I worked off with the back. I couldn’t agree with you more. It was in my hate section was just that whole idea of her not wanting to take that money or take the biography or whatever because it didn’t make much sense. I’m glad she figured out that she could kind of parlay that into getting a better role at her current company, which then if she left, she could go and improve from there. But still, it should have never been a question. It should have been like, yes, I’m taking this book deal, and then I’ll figure out everything else. Right. Because exactly. This is the biggest exclusive in the world. Besides probably, like, Kim Jong UN, this is what you’re going for. So the fact that it’s sitting in her lap and she has to think about it because she’s like a staff writer at some magazine I think it’s supposed to be like Vogue. Right? Yeah. Either way, yes. Big mistake. It was a part of the book that I did not really get. It seemed like they were kind of forcing this character development. Right? Yeah. Okay. My first talk down is the media. I was talking about this a little bit earlier. A couple of levels here. One, on a basic top level, the media in this book is not very astute whatsoever. Whatsoever. And I’m not in withouting people or that whole idea, but that’s a concern in this book. It’s like them getting outed and the media somehow cannot figure this out. All of these speeches that they have at the Oscars are very blatant towards a woman. They’ve been best friends throughout all of these years. There’s no paparazzi like sitting outside Evelyn’s house realizing that Harry’s never there. Every night, John and Celia come over, and then Harry and John leave no one’s going the extra miles. No one’s doing investigative journalism. It took 60 years for this to come out, and Evelyn had to pretty much tell you, granted, I think the part of the book that’s kind of a big part of the book is her having to cover it up and feeling the need to do that. So additionally, stock down for the media because they’re putting people in this position where they have to try to cover it up. They can’t just live their lives. So media is terrible. Paparazzi is terrible. And even they say in the book, like, nothing you read in the newspaper is real. It’s just, like, how people want to frame it and whatnot it’s like, stats. We went over this in the Mitchraft book, but obviously the media is the worst. Actually, I’ve probably done stock down media of, like, ten different books, but I don’t think that the media’s goal would be to out anyone. I mean, I don’t know, historically, if they’ve ever done that. What? Have they? I’m sure they have. I mean, we weren’t around. I feel like when they were like, this is like, that’s the story. You know what I mean? Even when they’re saying, like, oh, Elton John’s out. But that was him announcing it, right? Yeah, but even the store is like, oh, is this person gay? Is that person gay? People care about that stuff. Even now, you’ll see it’s like, oh, is this actor gay? Or whatever. It doesn’t matter. Actually, I just put on my list on Netflix tim Dylan as a new special. And the guy is hilarious. I think he’s so good. And someone’s like, oh, he’s gay. I was like, okay. Yeah. So it has literally no implication to me when the media comes and outspeople like that or even just like that’s part of a subject line. It’s like, what are you who fucking cares? Like, the fact that people click on that shameful. Well, I’ll just go to my next stop down, I guess, which is America. Sorry, Keith. America stopped down. Let people live their lives, for Christ’s sake. This whole book, it really puts a lot of stuff into perspective that you don’t think about. And I watched Imitation Game. Have you seen that movie with Benedict Cumberbatch? Yeah, I think that was that good. It seems kind of boring. You didn’t care for it. Is that what you’re saying? I didn’t care for it? Yeah. They could have made that much more interesting. But, I mean, you probably wanted a better job of it. I mean, what good God, what’s that on Ron? Tomatoes. You should look that up for your that movie is great. It’s phenomenal. Okay, we’ll get back to America and how shit it is. So I was talking about the Alan Turing thing in Imitation Game, because at the end of that, it’s like, he gets chemically castrated. This is a guy who literally changed the tides of the war, and he’s getting chemically castrated. Granted, that’s not America. I understand that. But in this book, Celia and Evelyn, they’re scared they’re going to get put into an asylum. These are very successful people who are in the spotlight, and they’re concerned that they’re going to get thrown into an asylum for being gaged by then. Like, later, when they have the Connor, it’s like, oh, Connor could get taken from us. And it’s already frustrating enough if it wasn’t. The fact that a lot of the stuff still goes on today. They just recently changed. People can adopt kids and stuff like that. Are you kidding me? So you’re saying that there’s a starving kid somewhere and in a terrible situation, but like, no, you can’t go to this happy gay household. What are you talking about? And, like, it’s such still goes on. And so America, get your shit together. Hollywood, too, is, like, the most liberal part of our country, too. So the fact that this is happening back then is I’m sure Hollywood probably has, percentage wise, some of the highest gay percentage numbers. Right? Yeah. I thought it was in the logging industry. I don’t want to speak at a certain I’m just saying. No, I have no idea. They think it would be more allies there. Yeah, no, 100%. And a lot of it was, like, a situation where people knew, I’m pretty sure that person’s gay, but it wasn’t something that you’d like, go and tell the media or something like that. What do you have for stock down? All right, this one’s going to be a long one. Pretending AK acting. Stock down. Well, hold on. Say that again. Pretending. Pretending. AK, what acting is okay, got you. Stock down. Celia is the absolute worst character in the book. The absolute worst. So I don’t know much about feminism, but if you just imagine everything that Celia does, and she’s a man, she’d be the biggest villain, biggest anti feminist in the book. She’d be like, the worst person ever. Let’s picture this. They get together, and Celia’s biggest complaint is like, oh, we get you to come out. We need to tell everyone. I don’t want to live a lie anymore. So I was like, all right, I’m going to game up. I’m going to game up. I’m going to help us both out. I’ll get the media of our back. I’m going to go pretend to basically hook up with this dude in Vegas. Not pretend, aka act. Well, they did whatever. It was an act. It’s not real. She’s not actually loving this guy. She’s just doing it. Yes. She says it in the book. She says, I didn’t make love to him. I had sex with him. Exactly. It’s literally just to save both of them. That’s all she’s doing. They have the forest gump, baby. And then Celia is like, you broke my trust. You did this. She proceeds to call her a whore, which is like, okay, it’s a bit aggressive and fine. They break up. Celia has her own opinion. That’s fine. So, yeah, obviously, Celia comes out and tells everyone that she’s gay, right? She tells the world that, no, she doesn’t. She doesn’t do shit because she never was going to do it. She was just making that shit up. She just wanted to control her this whole time and basically a power over her. She doesn’t say shit. Right? Celia’s all talk. So they get back together. Yeah, I’m upset Celia. So they get back together. Celia basically has already been situating for multiple times that the only reason Evelyn is an actress is because she’s hot. She doesn’t really bring anyone else to the table. She’s not a great actress. She’s just hot. She passes up a role, quote, unquote. It’s like, hey, Evelyn, you have this, and you need to show people you’re still good looking. That’s why she gives her the role. And she, as a man, imagine being like, hey, you need to take this role because you need to show good looking you are, and I’m giving it to you. Yes. She passes up and gives it to her. She’s like, I’m going to give this to you. The condescending like, you can have nice scraps or the worst when you’re playing a sports game. And it’s like, I think that was out. And someone’s like, I’ll give it to you. What? Yeah. So she controls her, obviously. It’s like, you’re going to take this role. And then they go and shoot a scene. Acting, an acting scene that’s very pro woman, very empowering, very pro sex. And Celia gets upset about it. The movie that she got her, she gets upset because she couldn’t control and tell her what to do. And she said not to even do the scene, which is ridiculous. Yes, it’s called acting. What are we doing here? And then the only time that Celia gets back together with her won’t return any of her calls, won’t return any of her letters, nothing. The only time is when she starts dying. She’s like, yeah, now I need someone to take care of me. So now I’ll respond to your letters. Cecelia is the worst, the absolute worst. She’s Jenny from tell me I’m wrong. She’s Jenny from Forrest Gump. Good point. She is Jenny from Forest Gump. The absolute worst. Does that make sense? Can you dispute those, please? I thought I was going crazy. I can follow your logic, but I’m going to have to go on record and tell you that I don’t really agree with you. Don’t use these muddled words. You said you don’t agree. Tell me why. Don’t agree. Okay. Thank you. When it came to dating the rock star guy or whatever, getting married to him, evelyn should have been clearer that she intended to have sex with him. I mean, if I was reading between the lines, I read like, she’s going to have sex with this guy. That was clear to me, and maybe Celia just didn’t want to believe it, but I think that has to be said. You have to communicate that. Granted. And Celia kind of says this later in life. She says, I wasn’t a perfect person when we were doing that stuff. Anyways, it’s not all your fault because Celia recognized that Evelyn was trying to do something for them. And, like, your point, which I actually think is the one good one, which was that Shelley doesn’t immediately come out after that or when she’s dating these other women. She’s not like, yeah, I’m a lesbian. You weren’t prepared to put your money where your mouth was granted. And she’s also like, I don’t want to see you with any other men. I can’t even look at pictures of you. So even if they didn’t sleep together, she was like, I can’t even look at this because I can’t have you even looking at them. It’s like, you’re just a super controlling, manipulative person. That’s all you are. Like, that’s what she is. But she dies. Is it in this fighting, the good fight and you’re not it’s like, no, you’re not. You’re just lying. Yeah, well, also, like, her not coming out part, it’s one of those things where it’s up to that person and I know this is fictional, but it’s up to that person to even care about that. Why should anyone else why should you have to tell anyone else what your sexual orientation is? I don’t go around telling people I’m straight. I mean, maybe by the clothes I wear, aka high Nike socks and birkenstocks. Celia is forcing Evelyn to do that. She’s like, no, I get it. Which is just as bad. I wasn’t a huge fan of Celia myself, and I appreciate that she kind of apologized for that. But it is interesting that she only comes back at the end when she’s like, shit, I’m really sick. Like, now I got to figure this one out. Yeah, okay, I’ll stay with you. But tying into this one of my stock downs is the idea of asking for forgiveness and not permission. Because for me, when someone told me this at a younger age, I said, you know what? That’s the smartest thing I’ve ever heard. Instead of saying, hey, you’re hanging out with your buddies when you’re a teenager. I’m supposed to be home by six. Let me call my mom and ask if I can stay till seven. Now you show up at seven and you say, my bad, I lost track of time, whatever the case is. Because if you call her at six, she’s going to say, no, you got to come home. Always ask for forgiveness. Not permission, but stock down, because it screws Evelyn over in this book when she does the sexting with Don that you were talking about, and she doesn’t tell Celia until after it’s done. And she’s like, Whatever. After it’s done, I’ll go home, I’ll get her some flowers, and I’ll tell her that I’ll convince you. That’s a good idea. And Celia’s like, absolutely not. No way. If you did it, I’d never be able to look at you the same. Our relationship would be over. And she’s like, well, shit, it’s already in the cans. And that literally ends their relationship for 15 years or whatever the case is. So maybe in some cases, ask for permission. If Celia was a pedestrian, then I get it a little bit more. But she’s in other movies, couldn’t Evelyn just be like, you can’t kiss a person on screen, or I’m going to be pissing you. It’s like, what? That’s what your job is. Yeah, it seems a total overreaction. One, obviously there wasn’t any actual sex going on. It’s a movie. You know what I mean? And then two, the logic behind why to do it. And I think Max made a good argument. Makes a lot of sense. The idea that he’s kind of phrase it as, like, sex for men is in the world is like, the idea that men have sex for pleasure and women have sex for connection or intimacy or whatever the case is. But why can’t lots of women have sex for pleasure and not for intimacy? You know what I mean? It was super empowering. If anything, it was like the most feminist thing you could do. And she was like, no, I’m controlling. Like I said, if it was a guy saying the exact same thing, people would be like, wow, that Cecil. That guy Cecil. That guy was a fucking worse than this book. He’s the clear enemy number one. But people are like, oh, I guess it’s Celia, so it’s fine. I will also tell you, just FYI, that the argument of, like, if you switch out the girl with a guy thing won’t go over well if we ever get very big in this industry. I’m just saying. What do you mean? Why is that bad? Well, because there’s so many other factors, societal factors and whatnot. And also, it’s like, oh, we’re treated badly because we’re men, because they look at us like this. But these women get away with everything. Do you think your partner, regardless of what gender I’m just treating them equally. Like, I don’t think you should treat them different because they’re in a gay relationship. Who cares? Do you think your partner should be controlling of you? Do you think they should manipulate you into doing things you don’t want or coming out and hurting your career or telling you what jobs to take and telling you, you’re a whore and you’re bad at acting? You’ve never been good at acting. You’re only good for your looks. Those are all things she does that’s just clear. It doesn’t matter if the woman or a guy. Yes. No, I think it’s fair. I think it’s fair. All right. Yeah, I got angry at him. I just thought it was ridiculous. Well, what else do you ever stock down? I ride with my girl Evelyn all day, son. What else do you ever stock down? I just have one last one. Oatmeal stock down. I mean, this is really what made me hate Celia. Evelyn and Harry are kind of living the couple’s life with their new kid Connor. And every morning it seems like they have a tradition. They wake up, they make breakfast, bacon and eggs. They have this whole kind of family dynamic going. And obviously Celia, because she’s controlling and selfish, comes in and is like, no, you can’t have this. And she’s like, you’re eating oatmeal today. And that’s like, her point to prove that she can be that person that provides. We talk about oatmeal. Yeah, we’re talking about some French toasts. When you talk about some pancakes, maybe a cereal bar, like, what are we doing here? And she’s like, here’s some fucking raisins. It’s like, gross. What the fuck is this? As someone that likes to cook and likes to provide for my loved ones, celia’s oatmeal. That’s who she is. She’s Oatmeal. If someone’s coming and say that, I go into someone’s house or whatever the case is, and they’re like, hey, normally we have oatmeal for breakfast and I was staying over the weekend, I would say, hey, let me cook them up some bacon and eggs with some buttered toast, take it up the next level. But ceilings coming into a situation where they are having bacon and eggs with buttered toast. So now, like you said, you got to go next level. We’re talking French toast. We’re talking a Dutch baby, some mix of pancakes, some chocolate chips, some blueberries, some maybe some muddled apples to put on top or something. But instead she goes backwards and she’s like, yeah, all right, I’ll make breakfast this morning and give them gruel. These are millionaires, and you’re giving them gruel. I also imagine oatmeal in the 70s is gross. I just think that’s probably the worst thing oatmeal ever changed since like I mean, it’s still not great, but it’s probably just plain oats. And they’re, like, not finally cut. I don’t know. I’m just imagining she hands it like a stock of wheat, and she’s like, eat this shit. Like, here’s the range. She’s like, you get the chaff, too? The chaff is where all the fibers yeah, okay. Yeah, I get it. I grew up on Grape Nuts, so if someone gave me Honey Nut Cheerios, I would have done anything for it. My last stock down was the sanctity of marriage. And this is quick. I mean, there was no sanctity of marriage. She’d be married one guy just to get in the industry and then met dawn and married him, obviously get out of the relationship with Don. I get that part. And why you left him. For Celia, it seemed like the only real sanctity of the marriage was Harry, granted, was holding it together and obviously Celia, but even then, I think that kind of helps. My point is marriage. I’m talking about marriage by the government, when the government is keeping track of you. Because the most fulfilling marriage she had was when she married Celia. Although it was just the two of them sitting together in a room saying, we’re married. I marry you, you marry me. Perfect. That’s all you got to say? Why, is it going to be anything else? And I don’t think they exchanged diamond rings, fucked beers. That gets us out of stock down. Thanks for playing. Do you have a favorite scene? I liked it when there everyone was like, happy go lucky. You already mentioned it. Like the two couples together. I was like, this isn’t going to splash, but this is nice. That was just a cool part of this book. But the best scene was probably the my girl Evelyn Rider died, harry drunk drive, killed someone. And she’s like, all right, time to put the gloves on. Let’s get to work. She’s from Pulp Fiction. The fixer guy. Yeah. She just went to work and I was like, I got to respect this. It was a dark scene, but I appreciate it. Yes. Well, it’s funny you say that because my nofis is really yeah, it’s not really seen book, in my opinion. There’s not seen unless you’re into the aforementioned murder cover up. And I agree that part of the book where everything’s like, happy go lucky was a really nice break. There was so much stuff that was going on before that in an entertainment factor, but also somewhat stressful and just a lot of moving parts that for them to all kind of exhale and be able to spend that time together. It made me feel good as a reader listener. I was like, oh, great. But obviously that’s not going to be the end of the book because it actually wouldn’t be a very good book if it ended there. So I guess I’ll probably go with the reveal of the murder cover up, obviously, where everything ties together and you see part of the reason why Evelyn brought Monique into this. And considering that without that part of the book, I don’t think any of the Monique stuff really makes sense. Instead of being like an expository way to connect all the marriages without it just being like a story, it always gave it like the Princess Bride vibe where The Princess Bride was just a movie. Then it would be like, okay, this is a fun little fairytaleish thing. But the fact that it’s like grandfather reading it to the grandson when he’s sick, it makes it even more fairy tale vibe. I was thinking of Titanic, the old lady. That’s the beginning of Titanic. Yeah. If she slept with a few other people and then what’s the Seinfeld line? She’s just a bit of a trap, frankly, a liar or something like that. One thing I will say about that is I really liked how it wrapped together. I wish it didn’t foreshadow it because I completely forgot what she was doing there. That was just completely out of my mind. And then Monique says, at one point, right before the reveal, little did I know I would come to hate Evelyn Hugo. And I was like, oh. And then I started waiting for it. And right when that cars and happened, I was like, her dad was in the car? Good for you. It was more just what I was looking for. Cause I need to find a twist here. Yeah. What do you have for favorite character? I mean, I already said it. I like old Evelyn. She did not DJ f. Evelyn DGAF doesn’t give a fuck. Evelyn oh, yeah. I just appreciate that. She’s just like, I’m not going to apologize for shit. Just not fucking around at all. I really also like the business analogy she uses. I had this into my love. But Monique comes and Evelyn’s like, yeah, take this book. It’s $12 million. And she’s like, well, I don’t want to mess up Vivon or whatever my relationship there. She’s like, yeah, Bob was about to, like, fuck you over. I asked for you. They said, no, no, we don’t want her on there. So, like, you’re your own business. You should think by yourself. I love that. That’s awesome. And that’s how she lived her life, which I really appreciated. Yes, it was almost a stock up for me or stock down for corporations. Like one. Corporations don’t give a fuck about you. It’s always on reddit or whatever. If you died suddenly tomorrow, there’d be an email that goes out and people would say, like, my bad. But then they’d fill your position and they’d move on. Like the company doesn’t care about you. They’re visiting your loved ones every day or giving you extra money. And Evelyn, like we talked about earlier, she had more than her looks. She had a gumption. She definitely had her head on her shoulders, knew what she wanted and was going to get it and seemingly has almost no regrets about it, including covering up a murder, which is, like, kind of fucked up. You can regret that. There’s nothing wrong with regretting. That is true. She should have been like, I have one or two regrets. Yeah, it’s like you cleared Harry’s name. So he wasn’t known as a guy who murdered someone, which he did. He’s a producer. No one cares about what Harry did 50 years later. But maybe you just ruined this other guy. You turned him into a drunk driver. But now you put Monique in a weird situation where she has to figure out a way to tell her mom that she knows that dad wasn’t drunk driving without ruining her mom’s memory of her dad. She doesn’t really think about the next level down. It’s like, okay, yeah, you made Monique feel better about it, but there’s more people in Monique’s life and her dad’s, like, obviously her dad was a great guy. He touched a lot of people and all these people think killed himself by drinking and driving, which she didn’t do, Harry did. So it’s okay to just be like, yeah, I regret that one. I made a tough decision in a stressful situation. And you know what? I shouldn’t have not be like, that’s part of the reason I do this. But you’re a great author. Forgive me or don’t forgive me, whatever. I’m going to kill myself anyway. All right, cool. Just as a side one, we don’t really get to know him, but the starting quarterback for the Giants, john. Yeah. Not to say it was easy for anyone, but he probably had the absolute hardest he’s in a football locker room that’s probably like literally in the height of homophobia. That’s probably the hardest thing of all time. And he was nice and chill about everything. I mean, he did have a heart attack later because of it, probably, but the first active NFL player to come out happened a year ago. This book takes place in the it’s probably difficult for him. My favorite character up until the murdering was probably Harry. Evelyn’s relationship was just really great. And Evelyn says something really nice. Why do soul mates just have to be romantic soulmates? We have other soulmates in this world. And like, you’re my soulmate. And Keith, I think you’re my soul mate. But Harry, when he’s with John, everything was really chill. He’s like such a great guy. He’s a hard worker. He crushes movies with Evelyn. He believes in her. They have a beautiful family. He’s a great dad, great partner. And then John dies and everything goes off the rails. So sorry, Harry. I don’t forgive you for murdering. I just don’t. Let’s jump into some love hate. Keith. Seven husbands and Evelyn. Hugo, what did you love? Yes, I think I touched on a few of them already. But the biggest thing, I think, once again, in this book, her characters are so real and well rounded. Everyone has flaws, everyone has likes and dislikes about certain people. One person could think Celia is completely right. I obviously think she’s a villain. But it’s to each their own. I mean, some people are right, some people are wrong, which I’m right at. But that’s the biggest thing. I think just her writing is so compelling and I think any time she comes out with a book, you’ve got to put it on your radar, you got to read it. I read like five other books. Are you going to read all those? Yeah. I like that. You just go, yes, immediately. I appreciate that anyone I’ve talked to that is told I’m reading it or like, that I just read it, or that I was about to read it, whatever the case is, the only people that have responded are women. I think it’s a book made really for women, which is fine. Would you say that Daisy Jones and the Six was our actual reader email, which we can do now if we want touches on that. We have a structure. Who cares? Go for it. Yeah. You’ve got mail. Jane from Cambridge, Mass. Since you guys have read two books, if you guys are to recommend Taylor Jenkins read book, would you recommend this one or your previous Daisy Jones and the 6th book? Oh, that’s interesting. Okay. I listened to both audiobooks. Just to be clear. For this, I would probably recommend Daisy Jones and the 6th. I just like that format a little better. The story, I thought, was equally as good, but the format I liked a little better in that just in general, in terms of the setting, I like the idea of a band anthology kind of behind the curtain thing more than this Hollywood actress behind the curtain thing. It’s basically on those factors alone that I would choose Daisy Jones and the 6th. I completely agree with that. I also would say, had I read this book first, that might have switched. Just because I think, again, her writing is very unique and we kind of already had a sense of what it is going into this book. So it’s kind of like one of those things. It’s like, yeah, I expect that it’s not the same surprise or the appreciation that you had. We read this first. One of the things I loved about the book was the structure of it in general. I mean, who needs chapters? This book had no chapters. And normally I’m a big, short chapter guy. Give me some meat. I don’t even need, like, the hanger. I hate how the thriller books especially, try to leave, like, a hangar at the end of each chapter. I just like the chapters because I can read two chapters and then get up and do something and sit back down and read the chapters. That’s what I like about it. But this book is just like seven or eight stories based on the men she was married to interposed with the Monique storyline, which, as I said before, I wasn’t a huge fan of it for a lot of parts. But the idea of it was like, okay, here’s each one of those men. Because that’s just how things work. You get married for a time period of your life. Each one of those men kind of represented a time period of her life. So you didn’t need the chapters, you just need the men. I mean, I know there’s a lot of push back on the Internet because we’ll get into it later on casting, but a lot of people wanted this to be a series in a mini series that was seven or eight episode episodes, one episode for each husband kind of thing. Unfortunately, that didn’t work out, so here we are. But I really like the structure of this one. I thought it was unique, and I thought it was fun. Do you love anything else? I like the term rake, and I did like the Monique twist and her addition because what she was dealing with two kind of got resolved and her personality changed because of Evelyn. It also was almost like, oh, she must be related because she’s almost like a mother figured out. And then it was all of a sudden it was like, no. Well, I also enjoyed how it didn’t end in a black and white feeling towards Evelyn. The world is always different. Shades of gray. And Monique, when she was deciding to go back to the photo shoot, it was like she said she fucking hates Evelyn, which she still does. But she’s like, Would I have done this if it wasn’t for her? Would I have done that if it wasn’t for her? Would this have happened if it wasn’t for her? Like. No, none of it. So she wasn’t super jazzed about it, but she went back and did it. And your opinions change after time. Slowly, she kind of starts to be okay with it a little bit, but at the same time, she’s not. Wow, evelyn’s this beautiful, wonderful person that everyone says she’s like, no, she’s got flaws too. We all do. I didn’t have any other love to do this. Let’s just jump into hate. I guess I’ll go because we kind of been dancing around it and I kind of said it, but I didn’t love the beginning of the Monique storyline. And I know that the end of it made the whole storyline make sense, but I just didn’t really think her character and the development of her character was super important. It makes sense for this book. So I wouldn’t say get rid of it or anything, but definitely get rid of her husband’s situation. I did not care for that whatsoever. The coffee table, it’s like she couldn’t just put her foot down and divorce him. I understand how the things with Evelyn allowed her to do that, but there are so many other things with her job where she was able to take steps forward with her dad that you don’t really need the relationship thing, because it didn’t matter to me whatsoever. It wasn’t like, oh, she was waiting to start dating this guy at work, but couldn’t do it because she was hung up by not being able to divorce him. It was like, no, there was no other storyline. I’m kind of glad there wasn’t because the romantic aspect and it was also like an amicable divorce, which was like, okay. I was like, all right, then, what’s the point of the story? And it was like, hey, I’m trying to create a career in New York. You’re trying to create a career in San Francisco? Cool. Sorry. That we don’t love each other enough to either of us decide not to do our careers. He wasn’t Celia to her, which is the whole point, I think. Yeah. What is it? What else do you hate? The dawn part where dons like, I’m sober and I’m like, I got to apologize. Fuck you, buddy. It’s one thing to do stuff that, hey, I was kind of a manipulative. Or mean like Celia. Right. There are certain things Celia did that I think were bad. You can forgive a lot of those things. Don was like, beating her for two years or something like that. Like, hey, Don, you learn at a very young age you’re not supposed to hit anyone, let alone a woman? There isn’t any gray area where you’re like, you know what? I was kind of an asshole. I bet if you’re, like, a fucking awful person, you should never be forgiven. You can’t do that unless literally he’s like, yeah, I had some brain malfunction. Like, something wrong with my brain. Alcoholism is something wrong with your brain. But I didn’t care for that. She was like, I’m not sure if I’m going to forgive him. Yeah, you shouldn’t forget them. Fuck this dude. Yes, I do think they handled it in the right way, where it was, I’m not going to forgive you. Yes, I’m willing to be friendly with you on the set, but make it clear we are not friends. Yeah, I guess I would want a more definitive I guess also, it brings up a good point, which is like, you shouldn’t hold hate in your heart. It’s not healthy. If you have someone you hate, let it go. That hate is only affecting you and the people around you by not being able to kind of remove yourself from that, you’re then just still stuck in its vortex. So I think she was able to come to terms with that when he did his thing in the sense of like, well, I’m glad you’re not going to go forward and beat other people, because I think she definitely felt guilty about the other woman who he dated. She’s like, why don’t you tell me? But at the same time, this chicano was slanderous to her, so what are you going to do? So she felt a little bad about that, and so at least now the circle is closed. There’s some closure on it. She was like, I don’t think about you at all, which is the best we give someone. I have one more hate. The Connor threesome that was thrown in the book. Do you remember that? She was talking about her 14 year old daughter that had a threesome. That was so unnecessary. It was a throwaway, too. It was like, I’m trying to set up that this girl is in a bad mental place after her father’s death, okay, this 14 year old girl has a threesome. It’s like, couldn’t you just say that she started drinking a lot or something, and especially considering her dad was a big drinker, that wasn’t very well. She’s obviously depressed. But just to be like, what can I do? Okay, the 14 year old girl has a threesome with two guys from the football team. I think that was probably more to be like, this is what Hollywood does to people type thing. If you grew up in it. I guess so. But they weren’t in like a sexual nature type household. And even then, it’s like, that shouldn’t matter. I’m not trying to shame connor wasn’t an actress either, which, if he was a child actress, would make more sense, but she wasn’t agree. So yeah, I didn’t really care for that. What else you got? My last one, it was just letter sending across coast to coast in the 1980s. I can’t imagine that would be the easiest thing to do. But the way that they reconnect is she sends a letter being like, congrats on your award. So she sends that, writes it out. Right? It gets like, what, two weeks, do you think? Probably to get there? Maybe the pony express letters take, like, three days. Back in the 80s, it’s the same thing, right? They have airplanes. But you write it, right? You write out this long thing and then you wait three days to get there. Let’s say three days. I think it’s way longer. And then another three days if you wait a week to get it back. How do you remember what you wrote? Like, there’s no text message. Conversation thread. She’s like, yeah, good point. You’re like, Wait, what did I say to her again? So I just thought that was funny. But let me teach you a couple of things, Keith. All right. I’m going to change your life. Are you writing on one of those, like, yellow pads? Saved the receipt copy. Yeah. There you go. No. So she just called Celia. Oh, hey, congratulations. That was great. Whatever the case was, it would have mattered much less people and at least the women I know, specifically, love letters. Love them. Love letters or love letters?

Love letters. It could be a letter about anything. But sending a letter to someone is a real game changer. You and your girlfriend, you don’t live together, you should send her a letter. I’m telling you, it will make her weak for sure. But what you do is because I personally have terrible handwriting, obviously this isn’t going to get in correspondence situation where then, like, you don’t know what you’re talking about. But I always write the letter first on one sheet and then copy it over to another one because there are so many spelling errors and stuff like that. I usually write it out on the computer okay. Or do that and just save it. But Keith, promise me you’ll write your girlfriend a letter. All right.

Okay. Let’s jump into cast the movie then. Netflix has announced in March of this year that they were going to release a film adaptation of the book. The rights were originally with free form. They were going to do a miniseries that fell through. Netflix picked it up for a full length feature film. The internet is a buzz. They’re not happy. But everyone’s talking about the casting. Now. The release date nor the casting has been shared with the public. So let’s start guessing. Who have you decided to cast for this movie? For Monique, I don’t know how big of a role she’ll play in the movie, but I did probably substantial. Journey Smoley. I think she’s the brother of Jesse Smoley, who is kind of famous. She’s from have you ever watched all the seasons of Friday night Lights? No. And she’s from the great Debaters. Her name is Journey. J-U-R-N-E-E-I just like her. Oh, I recognize her face. Yes. Have you ever seen the Great Debaters? No, just the master debaters. She does the exact same thing in Great Debaters. She’s like kind of timid and she’s timid, but she’s not sure of herself. And then by the end of it, she’s like, all right, yeah, let’s fucking go. Which I think that’s what you need. Cool. Oh, that’s where I recognize her from. Holy smokes. She was in Full House. Wow. All right. Yeah, that’s where I was like, where do I know that face from? She and West Ham are in front of Michael B. Jordan. Yes. That’s serious. That a lot of great. Michael B. Jordan. The Wire. Where’s Wallace? Where’s Wallace? So I had for Monique, I mean, if we’re going to go for it, let’s go for it. And although this person might be royalty, why don’t we have Meghan Markle in here? That would create the butt. That’s the bar we need. She was in what suits. People love that. Yeah, great. And I love you. People love that. And I think she’d be a good Monique because of course she’s fucking royalty. Why couldn’t you play the part that might be the one? And a big fu to the royal family. Like, I’m getting back into acting with this book adaptation on Netflix. Boom. Oh, you think the crown is good? Wait till seven houses of Evelyn Hugo comes out. Queen Elizabeth booch. Jive Evelyn. I mean, we got to cast Evelyn, right? Well, it needs to be a young and an old version almost. Yeah, I think so. Although I wasn’t really going to cast an old version. All right, well, I’ll just throw Meryl Streep out there because I don’t think you can go wrong with her for the old version. This one I don’t think is necessarily going to make a lot of sense. But I did some research. So I was looking for someone that’s like half Cuban because that has blonde hair on a day Armos. That was the obvious one because literally she’s playing Maryland arrow. I. Thought it was based on. So I didn’t do that because I thought it was cheating, because that just made sense to me. Yeah, it’s cheating. I did. Anya. Taylor joyce. Do you know she’s Argentina? Like she’s full of Argentina. Oh, the girl from the chess show? Yeah. And she has a relationship with Netflix. Yeah. And she’s like, bright blonde hair, brown eyebrows. I think she’s beautiful, for sure. And definitely could play the role. Acting wise is great. She’s not a sexpot, though. It has to be a sexpot. They keep saying that. Move that line over and over in the book. So I think it has to be like, someone that you legitimately would stop and gate at audio is the answer. Yeah, exactly. They’ll just have to buck someone up. But outside of that, you’re good to go. I like that as a proper user. I’m just talking about the character. It’s one of those things that’s weird because you’re somewhat objectifying these people, but the character a big part of it is that she’s got these giant boobs that people can’t stop looking at. I mean, there’s been actresses all throughout the ages. That that’s their thing. So you kind of have to did you have someone for Celia? I did. I wasn’t really sold on this. I did. Daisy ridley for Celia. I don’t really get what her characteristics I don’t think I read into them very well. That’s fair. I had Aila Fisher. Okay. I feel like she’s too spunky. Yeah, well, that’s kind of what you’re supposed to be, right? Especially at the beginning when she’s telling her taking her out to breakfast or whatever, saying, here’s where I want to be. I’m a great actress, or whatever. Here’s why you’re not as good of an actress, so you have to have that spunk. I don’t think you necessarily need to be redheaded, but hey, saves $5 on hairdi. And she’s obviously beautiful in her own right, which Celia was. So I think that kind of checks out and would make a beautiful couple with onto the arms. Fuck Ben Afford. You could throw anyone in there. Maybe not me, but, like, any single person in there. And you make a pizza, I guess you throw, like, a blob of gag. Flubber. You just continued my thought into flubber. I didn’t cast any of the guys. I wanted to do something for Harry. I didn’t have anything. I think him and old Evelyn will probably be, like, the two biggest other characters, right? Yeah. And then I guess maybe don’t a role that a lot of people would want to play. Why not? And we want to be the bad guy. No, this isn’t Will Smith here. I’ll refuse to play a bad guy. Good. We already been over this acting. I mean, Celia would probably say you’re a wife beater if you’re doing that in a movie role. So you wouldn’t want that, would you? That’s true. She’s like, oh, my God, I saw this movie and Russell Crowe killed all of these people. Terrible. Could you believe that? He literally cut a man’s head off. Did you know Greece is still in the ancient times? Yeah, they’re still battling over there. I didn’t realize it. There’s a war in Sparta going on right now. I saw it in a movie. Seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo. Would you recommend it? Yeah, I did really like it. I think Daisy Johnson The Six was a better book, but that’s just my opinion. I think it’s one you could easily recommend to pretty much anyone and think any woman would like this book from the sense of it. That’s just like the sense that I’ve gotten from everyone. Anyone is feminine, like me and your dad. Both feminine. Cut that shit. Yeah, I’d recommend it. I think it was an overall a good read. I thought the pace moved. Well, like I said before, I read this, most of it during one four hour drive across the country. It was a great way to fill the time with other people in the car when you go to shop for gas or whatever, pause the book and you kind of chat about like, what happened, the other thing. And then you get back into it. You take a couple of breaks, listen to some other stuff sometime. But it got to the point where we weren’t finished when we reached our destination and the SGF was like, I had four or 5 hours left. She was like, you’re not going to listen to any of this unless I’m with you. And I was like, oh. So from there on out, we only had like 15 minutes car rides and we’re just like pretty much getting in the car to read the books. Those are the best books. It was really fun to do. But in general, even if you’re not on a 14 hours car ride, it’s a very good book. I would suggest reading it. Like we said about the writing, it’s great. The story is great, the format is great. All of it really good. It might crack my top ten, but it’d be behind Daisy Jones, which I’m not sure is we’re into like 33, 34 ish books. So that top ten is getting harder and harder to crack, for sure. All right, what do we got next? You already mentioned it. I think Stephen King Salem’s Lot written in the 70s, but apparently you said it’s going to be made a movie soon. I mean, the audiobook that we both have is like major motion picture or something like that. Oh, does it? All right. I like it. Okay, well, I’ll be talking to you soon. Thanks. Going through this. That was seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo. Bye.