1984 – George Orwell – Episode 140

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1586869/episodes/19107010

 

The Buddies read the not-so-fiction feeling dystopian classic “1984” by George Orwell this week. The Buddies chat about the good life of being a Prole (drunk, happy, and blissfully ignorant), every day double-think, and how Gen Alpha speak to Newspeak are the same. So grab your victory gin, practice your doublethink, and join us for a pod that asks: would you rather be tortured with rats or buried alive with snakes?

Intro (0:00-1:36)

Stock Up/Down (1:37-32:16)

Favorite Scene/Character (32:17-34:15)

Love/Hate (34:16-44:27)

Listener Mail/Lingering Questions (44:28-49:43)

Conclusion (49:44-53:59) 

 

NEXT BOOK: Before They Are Hanged  by Joe Abercrombie

 

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂
All right, welcome Buddy Book Club.
I’m Dylan, here with my double plus good friend, Keith.
What’s up, buddy?
And I’m here with Dylan, my O’Brien.
Oh, what?
That’s, I don’t know, that’s good.
It depends on what part of the story, I guess.
Here’s the Buddy Bookle, we’re working on some best sides.
And this week we’ll be discussing
a literary classic 1984 by George Orwell.
If you’d like to recommend a book for us to read,
read our previous episodes, visit our website,
buddybookleab.com, or slide into our DMs on X, Instagram.
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Download, subscribe, five star review, please.
And thanks, Keith, 4242 on Goodreads.
I was kind of surprised by that.
I think when you look at a lot of the classics though,
the goodreads will have 4.0s or under, usually.
I feel like, this is actually probably a little bit higher.
It’s just interesting because if you were to do the same
with cinema on Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB or something like that,
it just doesn’t work like that.
No matter what movie classic you’re looking at,
it’s going to be a 95, you know what I mean?
If you’re the person that’s going to review a movie,
then you’re probably going to be pretty artistic.
And so you kind of want to go along with what other people
are saying is what–
Yeah, if you’re going into review movies, especially to jack up
your Rotten Tomatoes, like the amount of reviews you have,
you can’t go back and watch the Godfather and be like,
five, didn’t care for it.
Wait, five out of five or five out of 100?
OK, OK, yeah.
So Keith, let’s give this some stock up,
stock down for ’94.
What do you got?
Stock up being ignorant and happy?
The pearls.
That’s exactly right.
I think the biggest takeaway from this book
isn’t about power dynamic and government abuse.
It’s really just being a pro is the way to be in life.
Sure, they’re uneducated and impoverished.
They don’t really know what’s going on,
but that’s great.
English is bliss.
Knowing that you’re getting screwed over
is a lot worse than not knowing you’re getting screwed over.
The pearls, their life, consist of, and he’s pitties them,
hang out at bars, watching sports, being entertained by–
Poor.
-generally entertainment fair.
They have a lot of friends.
They have a lot of big families.
That’s a pretty good life, no?
Like, they seem way happier in general.
Like, sure, they don’t know the political state of the country
and sure, they’re just rooting for their side and the war.
The enemy changes every other week.
But who cares?
They’re having a good life.
It’s kind of like in the matrix where the guys–
I want to go back into the matrix.
Yeah.
If I’m Winston, I want to become a pro.
I’m miserable.
Everything’s terrible.
I know I’m going to be killed someday for my views.
And it’s just a matter of time.
Why would you want that?
It doesn’t make any sense.
So give me being dumb fat and happy,
and not that I’m already not those things.
But let me double down and just say I want to be a more.
You definitely wouldn’t be fat.
That’s for sure.
I don’t think they’re any fat pearls.
And the new reality would be they’re eating fast food.
You know what I mean?
Like, he didn’t predict fast food was coming down the line,
but that’s essentially– they’d be just eating super unhealthy food
and said, like, cheap unhealthy food instead of real food,
essentially.
They were getting beer, though, when he met with that old pro guy,
the bar was negetting a beer, and he’s like, oh, yeah,
they’re ripping beers.
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s interesting that the government–
the pearls is also like short for the proletariat,
which is like the working class.
So I think the idea behind the book is
that– no, not like the whole idea, but an idea–
is that they don’t really care so much the government,
doesn’t care so much the inner party or whatever,
doesn’t care so much about the pearls,
because rebellions start from the middle class.
So that’s why all of this coming down on you
and conformity is focused on the outer party,
as opposed to the pearls, who they just keeps subdued with booze
and–
Bread and circus.
Booze and porn.
Yeah.
But yeah, you think of families?
You know, you get to pick who you want to be with.
You can have kids and just do your thing.
And everyone around you is in the same shittiness of a situation.
It feels less shitty, but I couldn’t agree with you
more that once you know you’re being screwed over,
it’s way worse than just being screwed over.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because then you just screwed over and you have to live with it.
So my first stock up was just take it a minute
to realize how good we have it.
And–
Oh, good.
Nice.
Yeah, yeah.
When Julian Winston are hanging out,
at one point she brings Winston some sugar, coffee, bread,
and jam, and the coffee has to be triple bagged.
It’s like you’re a teenager trying
to bring weed into the house kind of thing.
It’s like you got to put four bags on it, a roll of bounce,
and then stuff it in a toilet paper roll
and put in the cryovacate just so that no one smells it.
Because the coffee, if someone smells coffee,
they’re going to jump you.
And the amount of joy that having sugar and milk
and coffee together with then a piece of bread
and some real jam has, you know, the effect that has on them
during their date, it’s insane.
It’s like–
I can’t even try to equate it to what it would be here.
And be like, you know, the perfect day you would have,
which we’ve talked about in previous parts.
But that’s just standard.
You know, I throw a little maple syrup in the coffee.
Why sugar?
Go nicer.
Throw a little maple syrup.
Oh, caramel sauce, yeah.
Back to it.
Back to it.
Yeah.
Bread, it costs literally nothing.
You can go to the store and get a piece of white bread
for literally nothing.
So we were lamenting about things right
before we got on our rather I was.
And it’s like, shit, how good do we have it?
Like all of this stuff, if you were to ask the average or median
person from any decade prior to this, which would you rather
have to be like, oh, whatever you got.
Whatever you got sounds better.
So and that’s obviously this is location based and what
out there is some people who are sure are struggling for real.
So I do understand that.
But at the same time, just in general, we got it pretty good.
Time to enjoy it.
Well, also, this isn’t like the fantasy part of the crazy part
of the book because when the book was written,
they had gone through 49, I think.
The Great Depression, World War One.
Yeah.
And World War Two, they had 30 years of just absolute
terribleness in that they weren’t sugar and bread
and all those things were valued much higher than we have today.
This isn’t some sort of like mystery.
And then obviously before that, then you get to the 1800s.
And it’s like, yeah, no, that stuff was like commodity back then,
either.
So we were just super spoiled.
Yeah.
And it’s hard because whenever you do,
then you feel like you’re a dick for enjoying that.
It’s like, oh, other people don’t have it.
Why am I enjoying this?
But just whatever you got, just take a minute.
Just take a minute and enjoy it.
What else do you get for stock up?
Double thing stock up.
Oh, OK.
I’ve been doing this for years, D-Man, for years.
I never really had a name for it, but this book really did spell it out.
And I can list out a few examples for you.
Now, these examples took me a long time
because the whole concept of double thing is very hard to wrap your mind around.
Can you explain the concept of double thing?
It’s basically like having carrying two ideas
at once of the exact opposite.
So I think the example they use is War is Peace.
So like those are two exact opposite things.
But the way they explain it is like, well, if you’re always at war,
then you’re that creates peace because you’re not–
I don’t know.
It’s a very hard to understand.
Sure.
It’s to know and not know.
Yeah.
Let me jump into the next couple of examples.
First one is it’s all mental.
I mean, I say this–
You say this, right?
Yeah, that is one of your biggest things.
The whole concept is that it’s all in your mind.
But by stating that’s all in your mind,
it’s literally saying it’s not physical.
It’s a mental issue.
So you’re saying in your mind is the issue,
but at the same time your mind isn’t the issue.
So you see I’m saying it’s like two divergent.
Yeah, like golf.
We’re talking about golf.
It’s like, oh, golf is a mental game.
But it’s a very physical game.
Like you have to actually do something with your hands.
It’d be hard if you had no arms and no legs to swing a golf club.
Exactly.
Yeah, so there’s two things.
So it is all mental, but it’s also not all mental.
So it’s both those things.
I read the audiobook.
Oh.
Yeah, which we do.
We listen to audiobooks, but we say we read them.
A lot of people argue with that, but I always have my whole blog
on why reading or listening to audiobook is reading.
So, buddy book of the content there.
Yep.
Another one I used to always say is I’m bad at test taking.
Unfortunately, this happened a lot because I was a B2C student
in high school in college.
But, and that was because I was a bad test taker, which
basically was if I studied really, really hard and did really
well, I was super proud of myself because I’m smart and knowledgeable.
But if I studied really hard and did really bad,
I think it was because the tests were bad.
It wasn’t me.
So, not only is it basically both.
You can either be, it’s, you’re really smart if you do well,
but also it’s rigged if you don’t do well.
So that’s the two things in my mind.
And then the last one again, this one was hard to get across,
but nice guys finished last.
So I kind of agree with this statement, but at the same time,
is I think that if you’re trying to be nice, then you will
finish last.
If you are nice, you finish first.
Does that make sense?
Like, I think that there’s this whole mentality that if you’re
trying to actively be nice and not, you’re just not being nice.
Yeah.
If you’re like keeping score, then you’re going to finish last.
But if you’re not keeping score and you’re kind of just,
hey, this is why I want to do this because I want to do it.
It’s for me.
It’s almost selfishly.
I’m being nice for selfish reason.
Yeah.
Then you actually finish first.
That makes sense.
So there’s like, it is, it’s both those things.
There’s kind of like a whole thing in the latest season
of shrinking about this.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Because one of the guys, he’s a nice guy, but he opened this food
truck, but now he’s getting a job at a nice restaurant.
And the guy who works for him is pretty much going
to be unemployed because he has to close this truck to go work
with his restaurant.
So he’s like, God, what do I do?
And someone’s like, be selfish because this is for you.
You’ve got to be selfish and take the job.
Yeah.
Can you just sell the food truck to the guy that’s–
There was definitely some holes in there.
Is the guy good enough?
It’s a food truck.
Just make sandwiches.
Continue making sandwiches.
Now you are leasing this food truck for me.
And I’m going to go do a different job.
Yeah, definitely some holes.
It’s a 30-minute TV shot.
There’s lots of holes.
But–
But yeah, double-thanks, talk about–
I was thinking about nice guys.
What about Bill Gates?
Where does he fit in there?
Is he a nice guy?
Well, that’s the question.
And he on–
I feel this.
Yeah, but the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
they’ve done a lot.
But then he’s having affairs and he’s on lists.
So–
Oh, I think charity is the biggest scam there is going.
I don’t believe it.
Quick stock up, war as a distraction.
There was a lot of conversation about these–
Can imagine that.
Yeah, there was a lot of conversation
with these lists going on before probably a couple months ago.
Now we’re just talking about gas prices.
So stock up to war as a distraction,
because it works 1984, predicted it,
and it will continue to work.
I did have an opener, I was going to say,
that we love fiction and fantasy books
because it takes us out of this world.
It’s so unrealistic.
And I was like, can you imagine, D-Man?
Can you imagine a world where endless wars occur?
And there’s no justification for them.
And there’s a cult of personality around politicians
and there’s a huge disparity between classes
and there’s facts being made up and interpretations
and everything.
And good guys are changing to bad guys.
And bad guys are changing to good guys constantly.
It’s all too unrealistic, D-Man.
It doesn’t make any sense.
So I glad you read the book.
Well, I’ll follow that up with the stock up
to the spread of misinformation/rewriting history.
It’s Winston’s job in the Ministry of Truth
is to basically go back into past news articles
and change people’s names, take them out
if they’re now outside the party or there, whatever,
they’ve been caught by the thought police
and they’re un, I can’t remember what the word is.
There’s a word for that they is unpersoned.
That’s what it is, unpersoned.
If they’re now an unperson or something like that.
And it’s fascinating.
Supposedly this was done in like Stalin’s Soviet Union,
which is where he got a lot of this stuff is based off of.
So yeah, I guess Stalin did it.
And it’s an interesting job.
And you think when your like George Royale is writing this,
that oh, you know, you could see how in the future newspapers,
you could just do that.
But now with the internet, obviously he had no idea
what the internet was that you can’t go back
and take things out.
You know, if there’s always a Wikipedia editor who’s going in there
if you try to mess with it and putting back in
whatever the truth is, the funny thing that is un-predicted,
but it gets us to the same place is the way
that now there’s so much information
that you can just say the opposite thing.
And now both things are out there.
It’s double talk right there and makes you do double think
because it’s like the same in opposite things are there.
So now there’s the truth and there’s the opposite of the truth.
And who even knows, especially when those we look to
and like our leaders and those in power say both things.
You know, based on how the winds blowing politically
or otherwise.
So it’s funny how now we have so much information
as opposed to like, oh, you just gotta go back
and change this news article
that you can still rewrite history
just by spreading misinformation.
It’s how these psychopath like Holocaust deniers,
people are still listening to that or flatter.
There’s a more flatter thing was a huge thing before.
It’s just, it’s fascinating to me how so much has changed
that he couldn’t have imagined,
but yet we still are getting to the same ideas
that were posed in this book.
What else you got for stock up?
Less one fourth grade crushes stock up.
Ashley Bunz, where are my phones for you at?
– That’s a great name right there, I like that.
Yeah, I wrote her a love letter in fourth grade.
– You’d have to present that to the class here.
I found it some time in it.
I actually put it in the memory hole.
I burned it.
That’s what they call that thing in 1984, the memory hole?
(laughs)
– There’s nothing called it.
Yeah, thanks so.
When he has to like, after he’s doing his job,
he’s gotta throw all this stuff and burn it, you know?
It’s like the memory hole.
I do remember the first line of it.
It was, she was moving away
and I had never confessed my feelings.
So it was, I like you with an unforgettable passion
that was the first line of the letter.
I’ll never forget it.
Yeah.
Wow, the kid has the poet skills.
And then did you put it in her memory hole?
Okay.
– Anyways, I’m out.
– She’s so cute.
(laughs)
Anyways, so.
Oh yeah, so Winston, Julia, they’re kind of love
or romance plays out kind of like a fourth grade crush.
He pretends he hates the girl and they’re making
like brief eye contact and it’s like,
did she look at me or did she not look at me?
They’re passing love letters.
Also too, like similar fourth grade, they didn’t talk at all.
And then you pass a letter to the person
you’re like, I love you.
It’s like, wow, that was their hard album real quick,
but okay, okay.
– Also, he’s like, I hate her and then she slips in the letter
that’s like, I love you and he’s like,
actually, I do kind of love this person.
Exactly, Yeah, exactly.
Like you pretend you hate the girl,
but really love her deep down.
I mean, I did the same thing until senior in high school
but that’s besides the point, man.
What happened to senior in high school?
– I mean, I was the same shy, you know,
did she make eye contact with me?
They never did, they never did.
But in my mind, they did.
Yeah, I thought it was just a good, interesting, innocent story
in the sense that like, the way that they were reacting
to each other or talking to each other
in this dark, like ominous book.
There’s this like, innocent love story that kind of grounds
the story a little bit.
for sure.
– That except for the one line of when they’re like,
making small talk and he’s like,
she’s like, did you like me?
Like when you before, I passed your love letter
and he’s like, funny story.
I actually wanted to rape and kill you.
Oh Yeah, That was like, wait, what?
I don’t think that would work these days,
but that was his cute story of.
– Similarly to a fourth graders,
like they just say whatever is on their mind, you know?
There’s no calculating of what you’re gonna say.
It’s just like–
– Yeah, I see you’re saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I saw you eating only red skittles
and I thought I hated you because you only ate red skittles,
but actually, you know, I love you because,
you know, taste the rainbow.
– And is that another,
– No, that’s not a euphemism.
It’s actually the slogan for skittles,
our next sponsor, hopefully.
my last stock up is the long con, stock up.
Yeah, so Mr. Charington is just wasting away
in the antique shop full of bedbugs,
waiting for an unsuspecting outer party member
to walk in and commit thought crime, is that the deal?
Yeah, I was gonna ask you that.
I didn’t know if he got caught and then everyone’s,
’cause it’s like since– – No, they said he was a thought person.
he might be hallucinating those things.
Like he was saying a briy in the whole time
and you were saying like all the people
you would just see and recognize.
I was like, is this really happening?
Or is it seems like it’s too–
No, Mr. Charington is real.
The whatever they call the camera that looks at you
from the wall is really in–
Why did they need like three months?
– They’re better, yeah, they’ve really stacked up the case,
but what a toughest sign is done.
– Yeah, they’re like, oh, let’s get a couple video,
some content out of these guys.
What are they doing in that bed?
– It’s just such a tough assignment
for a member of the thought police.
You know, you’re in the barracks, you’re getting ready,
oh, you just got out of a thought police academy
and they’re ready to give you your assignment.
Like I’m going to the front lines,
you know, what am I doing?
Am I gonna be interrogating people?
It’s like, all right, Charington,
you’re going into the parole’s neighborhood.
We’re gonna set you up in this antique shop.
You’re mostly gonna be selling antiques,
but if someone from the outer party comes in
and tries to rent a room for you, then it’s on.
And the guy’s like 70, so he’s just been waiting for years
for something like this to happen.
It’s like McNulty when he gets on the boat in the wire.
It’s like the last place he wants to be is the boat.
This is what, you know, this gig is.
So, really, Mr. Charington.
– I love the game, he’s retired, he’s been,
he’s been deep in that police for a long time.
They’re like, hey, – Well, this is the cushy gig.
Yeah, this is, hey, take it easy.
I’m gonna have to do anything, heavy lifting.
You’ll just, you know, chill at this antique store
and catch any of the other bad guys, you know,
serve your time.
Catchingly bad guys That happen upon your store
in the parole’s district in Wacke.
he Also has got to do a lot of, he was well educated.
He’s like, I’m gonna do my research.
He played the role.
– Yeah, he’s like the bells are saying clemons,
he had that thing down.
He knew exactly what was going on.
– Same thing with O’Brien.
They do a lot of reading and, like,
they’re really up on things for someone
that’s really anti-being up on things.
– Well, O’Brien wrote the book.
He wrote Goldstein’s book with some other party members.
So he’s intelligent for sure, you know?
He knows what’s going on, but he’d rather have wine and cheese
than go straight to the party.
Talk down, detouring from the plot.
I think in a previous episode, you mentioned,
how you don’t mind when the author kind of takes you
on a little side quest and so to speak
and talks about all the research they’ve done,
like, and Moby Dick you mentioned,
now they were just basically talking about everyone.
– Well, that was,
isn’t a good part of Moby Dick.
– Yeah, so you’re talking, this is the Moby Dick effect.
– They’re like, I did a shitload of research.
I’m going to make sure you know that I did a lot of research.
He did the same thing.
What’s that really popular book that Tom Hanks played a movie of?
No.
– Angel’s a demon, his guy.
Dan Brown.
he would do That every other chapter.
He’d be like, it’d be a chapter
and I was just talking down to you.
At least, ah, it’s the eye read it.
He was like, do you know that the Catholic church did this
and it would be like a full chapter of just, like,
stuff, I’m like, give me back to the story.
I don’t get it.
That’s not how I like the history of hiding it.
Well, this is more like the tone.
Yeah, you felt like he was like, hey Keith, idiot.
(laughs)
BCD student, listen up.
Test will be on this.
How’s your test taking?
– Yeah, so those are knowing to me,
but that’s a stock down because, yeah,
I’m not a big fan of it.
And I mean, what I assume happened in this
was that he wrote an essay about a society
that is made up with stop thought police,
all these different things
and he wrote this whole thing out,
which is the book that Winston acquires.
And then he was like, ah shit,
I can’t really release this as an actual book.
Let me write a book in a story around the book about the book.
the book about the book.
And then use that because it seems like
all that stuff was intertwined into the plot
and then we get to the book part
and it just repeats all that stuff we already know.
It’s like super redundant, it’s long,
it didn’t really add anything.
I mean, it was, again, if I didn’t read any part
other part of the book, fine, yeah, be interesting,
but I almost think it’d be better
if they just cut that 50 pages out of the book
because it just didn’t really add anything.
So it was, again, super redundant,
so I don’t really understand the point of it.
– So you’re saying–
That should out of here.
– You’re not down for a copy of the theory
and practice of Oracle collectific.
you want to throw That in the addent?
You want to throw it as like the,
you had read the book that Winston got,
this is what it would look like.
Fine, that makes sense to me.
Yeah.
– But it didn’t make any sense in the story.
Agree And not disagree, But it was in my hates
that chapter of the book
because it was boring for the most part.
It started out like, okay, world building, this is fun.
Now we get some history of the party to some degree,
but then I realized shortly therein
that the book was so well written up until that point
and we are coming from our own mindset
which is that, oh, this is a fucked up society.
All this stuff was assumed.
A lot of the stuff in here that they had
in the theory and practice of oligarchical collectivism,
we’ve been able to draw, we’ve already come to those conclusions
based on– – What they’ve directly said it.
– Or, yeah, they’ve, are they beat around it?
I don’t know if like some of it wasn’t necessarily directly said,
but the idea of, like we keep the pearls down with
booze and porn and we don’t really care about them,
but here’s, like that you can figure out just by breeding
the first half of the book, we got there.
– We’ve talked about how we’ve like world building
and we’ve a lot of books of where like,
hey, it would be great if they did a whole chapter on here.
Here’s what you need to notice at the table of everything.
But the problem is we just had the table set for us,
we got the silverware on the right side of the plate,
you know, everything’s good, napkins set up
and then they’re like coming through and redoing everything.
I’m like, we already know this, we already have the table set.
Good amount.
do you read from the outside in Or the inside out?
There’s eight spoons, where do you go?
And then there’s a spoon at the top with that spoon for it.
– I remember when I was–
Deserts spoon.
– 10 or 11, I would always, my parents,
this is how you set the table, how to be done every time
and I always said why is it done like this?
They’re like, that’s just the way it is.
And I really, really made me upset.
If someone just said pick up the fork with your left hand,
so you want it on your left hand all the time,
most people are left right even.
Right, is it Wow, who picks it up?
Yeah, okay.
so the force on the left, lights on the right.
– Yeah, so the reason that people do that is,
logistically, it’s just the easier thing to do.
I’d be like, oh, okay, that makes sense to me.
– There’s a whole, actually I went down an Instagram,
I think my brother-in-law made it sent to me, I don’t know.
There’s a whole guy who explains this stuff
on Instagram that’s actually fascinating for, you know,
if you’re getting down into a thought hole
or whatever the case is, whatever they call it,
the kids call it these days.
But explains why we cut, as Americans cut our food differently,
then they do in the UK,
’cause we will often put our knife down
in between eating and then in Europe, they don’t.
But yeah, the knife will be on the right or whatever.
I don’t know, my mom was the same way.
She, when we were kids, it was like,
you have to set the table correctly.
I wonder if it was a time thing,
I wonder if people do that now.
– I’m more of a logistics person, you know what I mean?
I don’t get it, why matters.
– You’re still leading with plastic silverware,
so what do you care?
Right?
I would be my hands, kid.
My first talk down was Jen Alpha speak.
– Who’s Jen Alpha?
– Jen Alpha’s like the new people, right?
All the kids, these kids these days.
– I don’t like labeling people, but go on.
(laughs)
– So I pretty much feel like new speak,
an anti-language whose purpose is to limit speech
and understanding instead of to enhance and expand it.
I feel like that’s pretty much what Jen Alpha speak is.
The thing I was looking for, the word I was looking for earlier
was brain rot, you know, if you’re gonna go down,
down the brain rot of looking up Instagram stuff.
But there’s tons of new slang that has come out
and maybe I’m just like old man yelling at the clouds
that just makes no sense.
Like, Riz, which is short for charisma.
It’s like, oh, that guy’s got Riz.
There’s a billion words that you could use in the English language.
– I don’t mind my language.
– To this year, you’re wrong.
You’re into the new speak, you know, that’s your thing.
What would you say?
Would you be like, man, that gentleman over there
is quite the charisma.
(laughs)
You say he has game, which is the same.
– I would say– – Yeah, he’s got
some charismatic energy.
Absolutely, that’s what I would say.
I wouldn’t say that gentleman over there has Riz.
– Would you say he’s got big dick energy?
Yeah.
I’d say he’s got that BDE.
Are you familiar with much of this?
– I’ve heard one recently, someone said,
oh yeah, I was looking real snatched in that picture
or something like that, which means like cut or something.
I don’t hate it.
Listen, I’ll tell him on board if it makes sense.
I don’t like when people say insults that in cup is everything
that they don’t have a word for.
When people say, oh, he’s a cuck, I really do not like,
because it’s just like, use your words, what does that mean?
You’re not using the word for the real way.
– Yes, that’s what we’re saying, that’s new speak.
I mean, you snatched this like a specific thing.
It means like you’re looking good in a,
it’s like looking like cut essentially.
Yeah, so is That like come from doing like a snatch
like an Olympic lift?
– I don’t know, a reason for it, but it’s a cool,
it’s an interesting lingo.
I don’t like it when you just use one word
because you don’t know how to use other words.
Does that make sense?
– Yeah, like they say to describe something weird,
cringe or bad, you just say it’s Ohio.
That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s,
that’s got a funny, all right.
– Or, skibbity, skibbity derived from skibbity toilet,
it can mean bad, cool, or just be an intensifier.
So it literally can mean everything.
It’s, it is new speak.
– That one’s over my head a little bit.
Yeah, so There you go.
skibbity doodah?
It’s all sus, it’s all sus, all right.
These people are delulu, I’m, I’m crashing out.
Delulu.
(laughing)
All right, I respect it.
Crashing out is good too, I’ll thank you.
I’ll listen out.
I’ll tell him I’m bored, this is like new technology kiddo.
You can be the person that’s like,
I’m not using it in new technology.
We have the DVD player, you know, it works.
We’re not using anything else.
No, I like to pick And choose.
I think some, some are fine.
I’m just, I’m just kidding.
– And also as a new dad,
you have to be using these to make your daughter feel super cringed
and wanna crash out.
So you gotta, you gotta start picking them up.
Come on kid.
She says bird And listens to raffee.
Like she’s, she’s, she’s not talking about,
musician who has these raffee.
– Raffee’s a children’s focusing, he’s amazing.
But yeah, she’s not talking about Skibbity Toilet
or talking about other reals and gats.
Gats are gun.
– But that’s a gat.
A gat is a big butt.
Oh, okay.
– It’s short for gat damn.
Wow, okay.
Oh No.
Good hit.
did you explain it That I like it?
Yeah.
What else do you have for stockdown?
those are.
Stockdown following the rules, stockdown?
So, you know, the other party members,
these people are always following the rules.
Like, they won’t even think thing.
They’re literally thought crimes.
So they won’t even do it.
It’s pretty crazy because then you go to the,
the Ministry of Truth, or excuse me,
you go to the Ministry of Love and you get hated on,
which is, you know, the double talk right there,
or a double speak, whatever it is.
Our guy, Tom Parsons, Winston’s neighbor,
is the ultimate rule faller.
The guy’s an absolute Nimrod.
But he’ll…
What is this, at Alpha Gen, That Nimrod talk?
What is that?
I think Nimrod was a captain of a ship.
okay.
– I don’t know, look it up.
I don’t know, yeah, I don’t know how he then became,
or maybe it’s from a book.
He was like the captain of a ship there,
and then it became a thing.
I don’t know how it became, whatever it became.
Son of a cush.
– And thus the great grandson of Noah,
Nimrod wrote, “Scrib is a king of the land.”
I don’t know, I’m guessing he’s not a good dude.
Biblical.
Yeah.
There We go, Biblical.
So Tom falls all the rules, but at the end of the day,
he ends up talking bad about big brother in his sleep,
and his kid turns him into the thought police,
and he has to go to room 101.
Even if you fall all the rules,
you close your eyes for two seconds,
and your kids turn you into this.
That was made up, right?
Like his kid who was wanting to turn him in for anything, right?
Probably didn’t like give him candy or something,
and he was like, “I’m gonna make up that he talked
in his sleep then.
Yeah, it was like some Nazi youth type stuff.
– Yeah, yeah, 100%.
Yeah, probably.
Either way, I feel bad for Tom,
’cause then Tom gets, you know, to the ministry of love,
and he’s like, “Oh, I hope they don’t kill me.”
Like if they gave me hard labor,
I’d be a great laborer for the cause.
I’d be doing great for the cause.
(laughs)
– I mean, but he’s having the best life of all time.
He’s like, “I’m proud of my kids.”
They really, they really,
Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
– You know, so like if you get out of a lot of time,
you get back to your earlier thing
about your experience being bliss.
He’s so ingrained into the party that he’s down.
So, yeah, but at the same time,
don’t fall for the rules, ’cause it didn’t work well for Tom.
– Which is, right in the line with the,
I actually just heard testify by Reggie
who’s seen right after I read this book, you know that song?
– I’m familiar with the song, not necessarily the message.
– Those who, or what’s it goes, all right,
the lyric is those who control the past,
control the future, those who control the future,
control the past.
Mm-hmm.
– Sounds like out of 1984.
they just fucking stole it, Right from the book.
Their whole thing is just they copied things now,
like, “Raging is a machine.”
What we doing here?
I didn’t know you guys were stealing.
Yeah, questionable.
So I’m now raging as a machine.
– You’re raging against raging with a machine?
– Yeah, they didn’t make it, they got to change the lyrics
a little bit, come up with your own,
their own call here.
my last one was us And everyone else
always saying the book is better.
And I think we talked about this,
or you talked about it for the Project Hell-Merry movie.
But I did go back and watch the 1984 movie with John Hurt,
which came out in “Germal Please” 1984.
And, – Oh wow.
it was great, movie was great.
It was exactly like the book.
They did a very good job, got everything,
like they missed a couple things, like,
classically, you know, you have to compress a book
into a movie form, it’s like an under two hour movie.
But for the most part, all of the beats were hit,
all of the big things were played
and the message was exactly the same.
High school kids, if you’re listening, don’t read the book.
Just go watch the movie.
You could probably get a Keith-level B or C on this test.
Don’t sweat it.
So, a skibbini, by the way.
Did you have a favorite scene in this one?
Let me think about That one.
You go first.
– It’s not really that kind of a book.
Probably when he’s talking to the old guy in the bar,
the old parole, and he’s just trying to get some simple answers.
And the guy’s like, I just want a drink of beer.
He’s basically saying, like, I don’t want a leader.
I want a pint.
I used to be able to get pints,
and they only sell pint, that leaders and half leaders.
But half leaders pretty much are pint.
So, he’s like, what do you really care?
But then at the end of the day, he’s like,
I don’t want the leader.
And then he’s like, I don’t buy you another beer.
And he’s like, absolutely.
– Wait, you like, I thought that guy had C2E.
I thought that was a boy.
Yeah, absolutely.
That’s what I’m saying.
It was almost a comedy moment within this story.
You know, we have already have our teenage love thing going on,
and then the oppressive nature of the entire government
and whatnot.
And then this was just an interlude where he’s trying to get
a straight answer from this guy, and he can’t.
And I laughed.
And it’s not in the movie, so that maybe
place for the book is better.
– One of the only scenes I remember,
I remember the ending, and I remember specifically,
I don’t know why, but him eating at lunch
with his friend, quote, unquote friend,
and his friend being like, we have one day,
we’re gonna have like one word,
like, how come this is every single thing?
– The guy that’s working on the new speak dictionary,
Yeah. – Or a tailor Or whatever?
– To me, Simee, so his name, that’s why I’m me.
something like that.
– I remember Winston just in his mind is like,
oh, this guy’s gonna die pretty soon.
He’s gonna be killed because he’s way too smart for,
like, he’s way too into things,
which I always thought was funny.
He’s like, you basically just need to be right
down the middle, otherwise you’re gonna be killed.
You can’t be too smart, you can’t be too rebellious.
You gotta be just do the party line.
And even then, you can still get reported by your children.
So, yeah, tough one.
Yeah, he was too smart for his own Good, for sure.
He was like, oh, yeah, this is how the new speak works.
Volume 11, now you’re in person, sorry.
– Yeah, you didn’t know that Riz, you know?
Yeah, indeed he was No Sigma.
Love, hey, would you love about 1984?
so this is the second time I mentioned it.
I think the first time I was a little disappointed
because I was so used to kind of,
I was really big into dystopian mindset at the time,
and then I was like, oh, this isn’t as…
like you read a bunch of dystopian books
and this is one of them?
But this is like What most of them are based off of.
And the second time reading, I appreciate it way, way more, I think.
I think it should be required reading for every high school,
I think, oh yeah, I think we need to start teaching our students
that the government is a necessary evil.
It’s not something you root for,
it’s not something you should be padding on the back.
It should be a general skepticism about people in power
is very healthy and should be obvious.
And that’s what these kind of books do.
Oh yeah, you shouldn’t just trust everything they say
and you shouldn’t be rooting for them.
If they do a good job, great, that’s good.
That’s what they should do.
There should be no pat in the backs.
It should be, that is your job.
You did your job, good.
I’m not rooting for you.
I’m not like going out and,
the whole idea of getting money to politicians
is so mind-boggling to me.
Can you imagine someone being like,
I have billions of dollars or 100 millions of dollars
and I need you to give me your money
so I can go change things, help you prove your life.
Like, no, you should be spending all your money
to get in there and then help me out,
not the other way around.
It’s like any fucking sense.
Billionaires That are taxing people to build stadiums
in their cities saying, oh, it’ll increase tourism
and you’ll get more money.
Like trickle down economics will help you.
It’s like, what?
You’re a billionaire.
It’s like the same idea.
I mean, we’re reading an,
we’re reading an, our next book that we’re gonna do,
there’s a character in it who has power and leadership
thrust upon him that he does not want
who is known as, clickley, the dog man.
And he is the best, that’s the leader we need.
Those are the types of leaders we need who are like,
I really don’t want to do this, but I know I have
the skill set for it, so fine, altruistic people,
not megalomaniacs who, and I’m not even talking about
a specific political person.
I think they’re all for the most part.
Oh Yeah.
in There, you know.
– You shouldn’t be rooting for a team.
You should be rooting for your country to do well
and your neighbors to do well and everyone to do well there,
but the people in the government of the last person
should never be rooting for.
And that’s what I got in book like this is what I think
is really what’s needed in today’s age.
You shouldn’t be fucking rooting for a someone.
Yeah, general skepticism, I think is good.
And I just, I like to a lot more in the second read.
Obviously, maybe because I’m just
become more cynical and hateful in my,
my elder age here, well, but yeah.
– Yeah, I mean, obviously we talked about it,
but the thing I loved about it is just how apropos
is to, you know, how it stuck around
and the things within, although Orwell was, you know,
pretty much taking ideas from the Soviet Union
and also thinking about how the, you know,
the UK was at the time and seeing like,
oh, you know, this could, it’s possible
that this could happen within a government.
And although this is probably more of, more similar
to some of the dictatorships around the world
that there are and not others,
the themes are clear and ever present.
And you know how when we talk about,
sometimes we’re reading books and we’re like,
I don’t know what the themes are.
You know, we’re just trying to enjoy the story.
Like this one, they’re very clear whether it’s, you know,
the nationalism, the censorship, stuff, surveillance,
putting people in poverty situation
so they can’t do anything and then having inequality
so they just look at each other
as opposed to looking at who put them there.
And like I said with the surveillance stuff,
it’s like now you talk about surveillance, it’s crazy.
Here, it’s just like, oh, the houses have tele screens
that, you know, they can be watched or listened at any time.
I remember it was like 10 or 15 years ago,
I don’t even know that it came up that the government
just had like everyone’s internet history
and was just holding on to it.
I was like, wait, what?
Like you can, you can do that.
And now we all have these devices in our hands
and I’m driving on the road the other day
and it, the ways is telling me that there,
there’s a camera that’s telling me if I’m speeding
or not up ahead.
It’s like, what the hell?
Just let me speed.
It used to have to be a person that told me
I was speeding or not.
So it’s just kind of interesting how it’s gone.
And although there’s not like thought monitoring
necessarily, you can really monitor
and change people’s feelings based on how they’re getting,
social media really.
Well, you asked someone like a general question
about society today, they’ll have an opinion.
Why, someone will be like, oh, what do you think of
the new like tax stuff?
And I’m like, I’m not smart enough to know.
Why would I should have opinion?
But I’ve heard a hundred people give opinions on it.
And I’m like, what the hell?
You know what I mean?
I’m using tax stuff as a, but you could,
any hot bun topic is more what I’m trying to say is like,
someone will have an opinion on it.
Yeah, and also just the Cambridge Analytica stuff.
Proletarian, say on your splice.
Don’t know what?
The Cambridge Analytica stuff that happened with Facebook
where, you know, basically you get put into these,
I mean, not only does it, you know,
you get bots or Russian people coming in
and trying to change people’s ideas,
but you just get put into these echo chambers
within social media that just whatever you started
looking into is now just pounded over and over again
into that you can’t look at anything from another side.
And we all just inner fight, you know,
as opposed to looking up at the top and say,
wait, who’s making us do this?
So yeah, it’s, it really resonated for sure.
I’m not sure I loved it as much as you did,
but definitely, definitely resonated.
I also like the narrators at time.
I don’t know if you caught this, but sounded like
the great British breakoff narrators.
They’re like very pleasant about the whole thing is,
you know, the great British breakoff, it’s like,
Oh, sure do.
Paul’s making his famous seven-legged chocolate cake.
And then the bread, the same narrator would be like–
Please stuff his grandmother’s cottage in Siri.
(laughing)
If you like big brothers, it knows all,
and it’s watching all of us, and I was like,
Oh, nice, nice.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, what the hell?
So I was kind of like lulled into it,
because it was the same narrator,
and boys, it was like, oh, very pleasant British accent, okay.
With her famous blackberry jam and a squash biscuit.
I remember also thinking that torture scene
was like five pages, but like, I’m like,
yo, we finally get into the torture at the end, you know,
see, it was like three hours, it was like,
oh, these shit, I don’t remember this being this long.
So a lot of torture.
Yeah, a lot of torture going on.
Yeah, I thought it was a nice quick read.
I don’t even remember how long it was,
but I kind of–
It was like 12 hours.
Yeah, I kind of felt like a blue through it.
And good pacing, you know, everything,
even towards the end, like you said,
the torture scene was long.
It culminated pretty well.
And then, yeah, I think, you know,
I definitely had questions that’s like,
oh, is he going to betray Julia or not?
You know, what’s going to happen at the end?
Because, you know, they’re doing the whole 2+2 thing.
And that dragged on, but in a good way,
where it was like, I guess, you ever going to say, like five,
and then he’s asking him, like, are you saying five?
Because you want me to believe it’s five, or do you actually
believe it’s five?
He’s like, oh, my god, it’s just–
they really mess with your head.
It’s wonderful.
And then, ultimately, he does betray Julia when he sees her again.
She says she betrayed him.
And because, you know, originally, it was like their love
is more than that, is more than the society.
But, you know, it’ll beat you down, man.
It’ll beat you down.
So, yeah, what about hates?
Would you hate about 1984?
All right, mention and get rid of the essay.
I think you make this book six hours, seven hours,
and you see, peasy.
I mean, I think it’s one of those books you should reread,
you know, every couple of years.
I also thought there might have been some–
tell me if I’m out there with this.
But I think there’s some– I don’t know if it’s allegory,
but there’s some romantic relationship
between him and O’Brien.
You could read into it, and this would
be like having a gay relationship in the 1930s or 40s,
because he’s like, secretly loves O’Brien, the whole book,
for some reason.
I have no idea why.
So I was like, is that some sort of allegory to that?
Or if you love someone, and then they turn you in,
and you get fucked over, and O’Brien’s really the bad guy?
Yeah, I’m saying no.
Crazy.
Yeah, I don’t know if I read it like that.
I could see you.
Well, O’Brien was like whispering him in the dark,
being like, meeting me in the plate.
I’m like, I don’t get why that would happen.
But that’s what he said.
He’s just waiting for some, but like, you know,
Winston is so into the deluge, but he’s
having these ideas.
He’s getting a journal to actively protest in his own way
against the society.
And he’s just waiting for a glimpse of someone else
who’s there with him.
So when O’Brien gives it to him, he clings on to that
with everything he has.
He probably knows– and I think O’Brien says
him, like, you knew from the jump what I was.
And that’s probably true, but he just
needed somebody else to make physical contact
with who was on board with him that–
So O’Brien–
This is that.
-rebellion, essentially.
So he’s just– you would have loved anyone
is just O’Brien showed a crack of it.
And he was like, OK, that’s– he’s the best person ever.
I love him, everything.
Yeah, exactly.
And also because O’Brien was so ingrained in the party
that, oh, it’s such an idea that, OK, wow,
is if he’s such a strong party member,
then there has to be lots of these other people like me.
And yeah, there are, but at the same time,
they’re going to absolutely tortured in Rheum 101,
whatever the case is.
So–
I worked up too.
I was like, am I crazy?
And I looked up at it the first note was,
because O’Brien tortures him, Winston
and perversely comes to love O’Brien.
I was like, oh, what the hell?
Maybe there’s something to it?
I don’t know.
Yeah, little stock homies in drip company.
Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
Sure.
Yeah, my only thing I hate was just him reading from Goldstein’s
book.
It was like, I didn’t need–
I didn’t need a whole same page there.
So–
Quick listener mail slash, goodreads review of the week.
Comes from a cast from Goodreads.
And she writes, my favorite part was when Winston was reading
the book to Julia.
And she fell asleep one star.
Thanks, cast.
Appreciate you.
OK.
It’s always good to have a laugh.
So–
I had a question, too, for you.
Oh, good.
No, I had lingering questions.
So that’s what I was going to get into.
So please, fire it up.
What do you got?
Oh, my only one that I’d left over was they described.
Someone is having a benevolent nose.
What would that–
what would that exactly mean?
What does that mean?
Well, to start off, we have to define the nose.
Oh, yeah, benevolent.
Yeah.
I know that’s right.
Does that mean it’s a well-meaning nose?
Yeah, well-meaning, good, kindly charitable nose.
OK.
What does that mean?
Yeah.
I don’t–
No.
So we put it off a red no reindeer?
Oh, that is definitely an benevolent nose.
So it was red and bulbous.
He’s got a gin blossom on his nose.
Ultra-wistic.
Magnanimous.
OK.
Whoa, stop putting all these other words out there.
You’re going to–
Is nose?
Yeah, exactly.
Now we’re talking.
His nose was–
It was sigma.
He’s got that sigma nose.
Wait, what is sigma?
You didn’t explain that one.
It’s like the lone wolf leader person.
I would think that would be alpha, but it is indeed–
like, the leader is the sigma.
A lone wolf leader, cool, successful, or popular.
So yeah, I don’t know where that came from.
OK.
Do you think Big Brother exists, Keith?
No.
No.
You think–
I think they didn’t say–
Yeah, they didn’t say.
I thought they asked him Brian and I’ll
Brian says he exists just as much as you and I
exist or ideas about this exists or something.
No, I thought he said he does exist.
And he was like, oh, he’s just as much as you.
And then he was like, do I?
Or he was like, but you don’t exist.
Or so, I don’t even know.
But it wasn’t clear.
It was not clear whether Big Brother existed or not.
I thought he existed at some point,
and then he would live on forever, type thing.
Yeah, could be that someone initially started.
But the society isn’t that old, right?
Or maybe it is.
It’s like a generational.
When we’re not like a lifetime old.
Yeah, I feel like there’s probably
a group of people who are running this whole thing
or whatnot, and they use Big Brother as a figurehead,
but isn’t actually a real person.
Similar to Goldstein.
Like maybe there was someone who–
there’s like the Brotherhood doesn’t even necessarily exist.
But maybe they have such the idea–
the fact that they had video of Winston and Julia
in the forest, bump in uglys.
How could some underground group–
how are they able to survive if they legitimately
have cameras everywhere?
They had it in the flat.
So yeah, I don’t–
I don’t know.
I think it’s all just made up for the people.
Winston gets rat torture.
That’s his biggest fear.
What would your torture be?
I think I told you the worst way to die thing.
They’ve just put me in an airplane, and it crashes.
And then I light on fire, and then I drown.
I’m in the bathroom while this happens, by the way.
I’ve told you that.
You’re in the airplane bathroom?
I’m in the airplane bathroom.
It starts going down, crashes into water.
The plane lights on fire.
I start burning alive.
And then I’m only saved by the water, which then
calls me off.
I’m still dying from the fire.
But then I drown in the water and die.
Everyone else is fine.
And they embarrassed pointing at me looking at me.
Look at this guy.
So that’s mine.
What about you?
Everyone else is fine.
Everyone else is like, remember how embarrassing that guy
wasn’t any dying, too?
I’ve been crying.
It was pretty pathetic.
So yeah, it’s fear–
There’s shit all over me, though, obviously.
Flammable.
Yeah, it’s fear.
It’s torture from the poo.
And then it’s pain from the fire, death from the drowning,
and shame from all the other passengers who survived.
Fine.
No problem.
I’m not a scratch.
Who were just staring at you.
They just– go on a time run, I’ll put that up here was.
Yeah.
You died bad.
Comedy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You could have easily escaped, too, as a person.
Oh my god, I’m crying.
That was– that’s amazing.
I don’t know, torture, Winston, the rat torture.
It’s my question.
I don’t– I could have thought of something on his spot.
You’re like, that put a add-in.
Your thing is killing me.
Oh my god.
Because there’s so many facets that would be terrible.
I think for me, I don’t necessarily
like claustrophobic, but the idea of being stuck somewhere
would be–
Like in a bathroom, a porta-bottie, what
you’re going on in airplane?
Yeah, exactly.
But I think a buried alive type thing would be pretty bad,
especially if you then add the rats to it.
Like they put you in a coffin with some more–
Oh, no, no, no.
Actually, that’s it.
It’s nicks.
It’s nicks.
Buried alive, it’s nicks.
You with Indiana Jones?
Yeah, exactly.
Me and Indie Jones, we share a lot of things.
We’re bullsick, and–
Yeah, but buried alive with snakes, that would be mine, for sure.
All right, we didn’t talk a lot about like INSOC.
We don’t really care about that.
We didn’t talk about thought police.crime rush.
Yeah.
Oh, the other thing that we didn’t talk about for love
is just–
talk about aging well.
It’s the whole thing.
Like people say or wellian, when they’re describing 1984,
and things like double speak or double think,
or they’ll say those kind of things in the vernacular.
But it’s hung on.
If freaking they made a show called Big Brother, which
is just about a bunch of people, it’s a reality TV show.
A bunch of people living in a fake house
with a camera’s watch in them all the time.
All right, Keith.
Messy A4, what do you give it and who’s the four?
All right, Gary said it.
There should be a required reading for high school students.
So for everyone in the world?
Yeah, I’m agree.
4.25.
First time I read it was probably like a three.
And this time I really appreciate it.
4.25.
I liked it a lot.
I think again, it’s–
it’s kind of like watching the Godfather,
if I like the Godfather.
It like sets you up for every other crime and mob, movie,
it’s going to take from it.
And so it sets the groundwork for every dystopian,
and I love dystopian stuff.
So I’m going to stick with that.
What about you?
Before I give mine, I do want to quickly touch back
on Brave New World verse 1984.
Because the ideas were the same,
but they came out of from opposite angles,
where 1984 is more of like, boot to the face, torture,
to get complicity, and to keep people in line,
where Brave New World was like drugs and basically distraction
from whatever is going on, that you can have power
by uncomplicity and subjugation through kind of just
making people dopsic.
What do you think is more realistic?
I think both of them exists in the world of air, I’d eat it up.
Yeah, yeah, that’s a good one.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think in today’s age, the Brave New World is the move
is just keep everyone distracted and angry at each other,
and it’s much easier than it is to–
I guess North Korea does the torture you in 1984 mindset,
but everyone’s aware of how bad North Korea is, I think.
But you can kind of get away with being bad
in the new Brave New World type methodology.
I think it’s better for the long haul.
Just feed people their social media algorithms
and all the things you can watch on TV and just fast food
that gets you fat, but makes you happy and all the sugars
and stuff and no one–
It’s the matrix.
The matrix I get talked about there.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I think for any sort of like totalitarian or dictatorship,
definitely the 1984 seems to be working,
but for all of the other democratic or whatever countries,
you go straight Brave New World and you keep people
just trying to buy their new truck and they’re happy.
Right in circus, like I said.
For me, I gave it a 375.
I thought it was good, for sure.
I agree with you.
I would encourage many young people to read it–
or just watch the movie.
But to read it just to get some ideas.
Also, if you haven’t gone down the whole dystopian thing
like we have, it’s not entertaining like Katniss Everdeen
kind of thing that book, but it’s what set the stage,
like you said.
So yeah, 375.
It’s for everyone.
I think everyone should read it.
All right, that was 1984 Keith.
What do we have coming up next?
Well, we are going to finish the Joe Abercombe series,
the first law series I believe it’s called.
Those are our books.
Yeah, first law trilogy, it’s before they were hanged.
And then last argument of kings.
What about before they were hanged coming up next?
And then we’ll finish it out with the last argument
of kings.
Yeah, we’re doing a trilogy.
It’s happening again.
So and we’re back to Sword and Sandals, or Sword and Sorcery,
whatever they call it, back in the wheelhouse.
Goody, yeah.
All right, we’ll catch you for that.
Bye now.
Bye now.