Redwall – Brian Jacques – Episode 145

The Buddies venture into the children’s section for Brian Jacques’ 1986 classic “Redwall,” and immediately wonder how a book like this was ever considered for kids. Good for the librarians for recommending a book that has more death in it in one chapter than most ‘young adult’ books have in a whole series. On this ep, the Buddies got into discussing whether Matthias should have just stayed home and helped defend the abbey instead of obsessing over a sword that turns out to be completely non-magical, why Constance the Badger is the real hero of the whole book, and whether Cluny the Scourge is actually a terrifying warlord or just a large rat with good intimidation skills and a very cool outfit. So practice your broken English sparrow dialect, keep an eye on the gate, and join us as we discuss a book that’s a kids version of Game of Thrones.

Intro (0:00-2:37)

Stock Up/Down (2:38-25:02)

Favorite Scene/Love/Hate (25:03-43:24)

Conclusion (43:25-46:16) 

NEXT BOOK: Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth

Transcript for SEO purposes 🙂

All right, welcome to Book Club. I’m Dylan here with Asmodeus.
J.K., it’s Jiskeeth. What’s up buddy?
Hey, I’m here with D-Man aka, I don’t have one for you, but yeah, all right.
You listen to the audio book of this, right?
Yeah.
Okay, I did a little bit of both, so.
It was awesome.
Here at the Book Club, we’re eight out of the best sellers, and this week we’ll be discussing
some adolescent fantasy.
No, not a game that’s been in the bottle with the Panguin Wendy Pfeffa Corn.
I’m talking about 1986’s Red Wall by Brian Jekwez, Jekwee, I don’t know, I don’t speak French.
But if you’d like to recommend a book for us to read or reach out to us in our past episodes,
you can visit our website, www.blogon.com or sign up to our DMs on X or Instagram.
That’s buddy book up podcast, list of us on iTunes and Spotify.
Download subscribe, five star of you, all that good stuff, please, and thanks, Keith.
4.15 on Goodread, so it breaks the 4.0 threshold.
This is the first of 22 books in the series.
Our boy, Brian, was just churning him out.
He was legitimately churning him out until the day he died.
I think the last book in the series was released after he died, so he was legitimately writing these for his life.
Good for him.
Do you have a history of Red Wall?
The Red Wall series.
I don’t think I do.
I was just looking to there’s eight prequels.
The interesting thing about the series, I’m not a professional about it, so I’m sure people will just say, “No, you’re totally wrong.”
But it’s not like Matthias’ storyline, and it just follows him throughout.
It’s more of just stories in this universe.
Oh, okay.
So, yes, Martin, the warrior, appears in some of them.
But for the most part, they’re just like new characters, and just that happened to be either in Red Wall Abbey, or in Mosswood, or Mossflower, or whatever it’s called, or that kind of thing.
So, yeah, I feel like I might have read, like, I definitely read one, like this one, when I was a kid.
I want to say I was probably in like 4th or 5th grade.
And I don’t know, maybe one or two more, but I was never obsessed with it.
I read it, I definitely read it when it was a little bit too advanced for me.
You know, like, probably shouldn’t have been picking up a book this long, but I decided to.
It’s really like a high school, I don’t think this would be too advanced, honestly.
Well, let’s get into it.
Let’s get into some stock-up, sock down, keep what you have for stock-up.
If you’re ready, so you don’t have to get ready, stock up.
If the hero Martin the Warrior is the person you look up to, he’s a warrior mouse.
And that’s what you wake up to every day, being like, thank God Martin the Warrior occurred.
Which I think that would kind of spawn some people that are like descendants of him that want to be warriors, and like build an army, and, hey, we’ve got to protect it.
We got to do everything we can, make sure if anyone comes around.
Not just be like, well, someone’s about to tag us, and everyone’s like, what the hell do we do? And then bear arms all of a sudden?
I feel like you kind of got to be ready for this type of stuff, especially when this prestigious of a place, right? Am I wrong?
The other thing I want to just point out, too, is like, why are we hiding this great sword?
What are we doing here? Why we shouldn’t just be like hanging up on a mantle somewhere?
Like, what’s the point of, maybe this gets covered in the eight prequels, but what’s the point of hiding this sword?
Or misplacing it, and then no one knows where it is, and you have to go into this long adventure to find it?
Come on. What’s going on, right?
Yeah, that’s fair. I like it. I like it.
I also like that we’ve been going this long, long journey to find this sword, and then the cat’s literally just shits on it.
Yeah, it’s a good sword, but who gives a shit? It’s just about the person that has this sword. It doesn’t really matter.
I was like, we couldn’t just send this to him?
Yeah.
No, chapter one. What’s going on?
It is something that I will discuss in my stock downs.
But yeah, it was funny when he talks to the cat in a cat’s second.
Yeah, it’s just a sword. Like, it’s cool. We have all these heirlooms and stuff.
But this one’s super cool. It’s old, but yeah, it’s got no magical powers. It’s just a sword.
And he’s like, yeah, all right, cool.
Well, fuck me.
Yeah, I know what I did to get this sword.
My first stock up is librarians in the 80s and 90s.
Okay, okay, like the looks that they got going, or ponytails.
No, just the fact that they’re stocking these shelves.
Do we not supposed to still do that?
I’m not sure that this is appropriate for eight to ten year olds who it was marketed to by all the librarians in our schools.
I just think about when I hang around my sister’s kids, I’m not allowed to say death or die.
Really like, you can’t say that stuff around the kids.
They don’t, they know the kids obviously know.
Yeah.
But if you only have one pair of dice or one dice, what do you say there?
Oh my god, no, anything but that.
Don’t say it.
But we’re talking in this book, you have a rat that’s murdered in cold blood.
A chicken hound.
A young…
A lot of your deaths.
Yeah, a young, well, there’s some like crazy ones.
Like, chicken hound, who’s a young fox, delights is actually delighted in the death of his own mother taking a, like she deserved it attitude.
The second she’s eyes, I got one, an idiot.
Like, she deserves a die.
I was like, what? This is your own mom.
It’s like, you know, he’s like the McCalley-Calkin from the Good Sun.
Like, this, that’s pretty much who he is. I know I use that all the time, but it’s true here.
The fox goes out and then this same fox, chicken hound, he goes out and beats the lovable father, Muthuzala, to death with a sack of stolen goods.
And on top, well, at least you’re thinking, well, at least we have, these are the bad guys.
So, okay, I get it.
But then we have the pious abbot, who when the Horde of Rats is tunneling into the abbey and they break in, he pours two cauldrons of boiling water into the hole and basically murders them via boiling water and then like covers the hole back up and traps them with it.
This is the most pious of the bunch.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I think for a kid’s book, there’s a small step below Game of Thrones, but this book was honestly.
Yeah.
We got, we got to the end of the book and he get, how he gets into the actual abbey is he tells like, hey, one of the other mice, I can’t remember where he’s from, but he’s like, I have your family held hostage.
I’m gonna murder them viciously if you don’t open the door and he’s like, all right, I’ll open the door. He opens the door and then he walks in and cuts his throat or something.
I didn’t even flinch. I was like, yeah, well, that’s what happens. And I’m like, wait a second. This is, if I was in fourth grade, I’d be like having nightmares reading this.
Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It was like, okay, at first, because at first it started and there wasn’t any deaths except for maybe the hundreds of rats that died in the overturned wagon.
But it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t in detail. It was just like, oh, the rats flipped over and they’re crying for help.
Anytime something happened, it was a maming. There were some maming going on. I was like, oh, is this gonna be one of it? Like, it’s fine. It’s a kids book.
So I wasn’t like upset about it, but I was like, oh, this is gonna be one of those books where it’s a battle, but no one actually dies.
You know, like watching Captain Planet or something like that.
Well, we’ve been playing of YA books where, you know, a whole series will have less deaths than this one had in one chapter.
And it’s more matured writing than all the YA books we’ve read, too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I was like, Jesus.
I was just a little, I was a little surprised that I was happy that the librarians in the 80s and 90s decided to stock it on their shelves and introduced it to our generation.
So I appreciate it. Absolutely. That’s why we’re tougher, you know, maybe it’s the next generation, for sure. Definitely.
Or sicker. One of the two out of Ketra.
What else do you have for stock up? Jar Jar Binks stock up. I know the Sith Lord known as Jar Jar Binks. Binks gets a lot of shit after, you know, the first Phantom Menace came out, you know, is kind of broken English talking is kind of like comic relief.
That was until I read this book. Okay, listen to this book and we have what like three chapters worth of broken English talk.
I mean, I get it. It is cutesy. It’s funny. It’s whatever, but can we not do this for a whole fucking it was like three hours of audiobook listening to them being like me so talk a talk of like that.
I’m like, I’m like, just fucking talk normal. This is who gives a shit. I understand that it is me get different dialect.
Oh, this was the sparrows, I think, right? Yeah, I think it was really the sparrows. Yeah, it was so stupid. I mean, I’m all four.
Hey, all birds have French accents and all rats have Spanish accents and all I’m all for that. Give them accents. I’m good with that.
But don’t give me this dumbass broken English shit. What are we doing here? Jar Jar Binks wasn’t that bad after reading there.
I’m like, Jar Jar Binks, I would kill for after this chapters. So tough, real tough.
Yeah, I mean, I’ll just tie into your stock up here because I want to discuss it further.
But one of my stock ups was a professional audiobook cast as a stock up. Oh, suck. Wait down. I don’t know where you’re going.
This is not a professional audio book cast. Oh, okay. So our guy Brian did the narration. So you had issues.
I was fine. You had, okay, but you still thought it was a little odd having that accent at first. I think you told me that.
And his son does Matthias, which I thought Matthias was very amateur. I read the book too. So and I liked the reading much.
The reading of it was much more enjoyable. So yeah, whenever I listened to the audio book, I was like, oh, this is, this is tough.
Listen, and I did listen to some of the sparrow part and I just couldn’t do it because I agree with you. It was very Jar Jar Banksy.
And unfortunately, I was listening to it and then I said, oh, I can’t do this. I picked up the book. But then that’s all I heard in my head as I’m reading it.
You know, I was like, shit, apparently that’s stuck in it. Yeah, I think my biggest issue with the audiobook cast was.
It was, it was cloney. Yeah, oh my God, because the worst acting of that, I think I could be a better actor. I’m a terrible actor. I think I could act better than this guy.
He was the Simpson’s episode where Homer goes to New York and he’s trying to get some call call from the cart guy and the guy’s like, no, no, no, bull stick. Only stick.
He’s like, do you want something to do our crab juice? And that he’s that guy or maybe the guy in Seinfeld when Jerry goes to his restaurant.
He wants to like help promote the guy’s restaurant.
Oh, the Pakistan guy that’s doing the Wagon fingerwagon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy. So that’s the accent that they decided to go with for cloney.
I was thinking it’s the movie that everyone makes fun of that they made a movie about the movie.
I know the room. No, no, it’s with Seth Rogen. Yeah, and it yeah, Seth Rogen. It’s him. Who’s the guy that’s canceled from pineapple express Franco? Yeah, it’s broken in Frank. Yeah, it’s them. Those are artists.
Is that a star artist? Yes. Okay. That’s exactly what I’m doing. Yeah. It’s Tommy. What’s that? Whatever. That’s who it is. That level of acting and overacting somehow within the same voice. It was terrible. But anyways.
Yeah, so I mean, I get it. I get your point of the Jar Jar Banks thing and I get my point of the professional audiobook cast. I think it should have been a little better. They really could have had.
I feel like it should have just been a really good woman who did the audiobook because she can play all the characters better. I thought, but that was my own. That was my own take.
Other stockups I had was fortifications stock up. So yeah, we’re kind of past the whole medieval castle thing and I was listening to some history thing where they explained like why?
And I don’t think it was as basic as well like why we got away from it. I don’t think it was as basic as like gunpowder because a cannon could just blow it up and that was that. It was something else.
But either way at this time with the weaponry that is available, thank God that Red Wall is as built up as it is and well maintained by the people within because it’s they’re all.
You know, not warriors. There’s not there’s not a warrior in the bunch. They’ve decided that and I guess this also ties into my other stock up, which is having a standing army stock up because yeah, there’s.
You ready to not get ready. Yeah, yeah, there you go because yeah, they decide they say at the beginning the father of it. I don’t even remember what that guy’s name was but RIP.
He’s like, yeah, we don’t we don’t have any fighters like don’t worry with the ice about like becoming Martin or anything like that because that was an old time.
We needed him for this one specific thing, but like we don’t have to worry about that now. We just help people like we’re just here to help people. That’s all we do.
And that never ends up ends up well for people in books and movies when that’s the kind of situation.
So if you have a warlord coming in, what are you going to do? So thank God they have these fortifications. Great. I got to give a shout out to all the people of Red Wall because all the people, excuse me, these the critters, all the critters, the woodland critters of Red Wall, because although they might not be warriors, they were stout defenders.
They all did everything they needed to defend Red Wall and most importantly courageous. They were willing to lay down their lives.
You know, it wasn’t they weren’t fleeing at the site of cloney, the scourge. They were they were ready. So I appreciate them from that aspect, but it’s kind of like the United States between World War One and World War Two when they just decided, hey, we’re going to totally demilitarize even though there’s this Hitler guy hanging about.
And then all of a sudden Hitler comes to power and they have to turn the whole machine on again. You know, I probably don’t support where we are now necessarily where like a third of the budget goes to defense spending.
But you know somewhere in between happy medium between doing nothing and doing something is probably where he should be.
Yeah, no, I agree. And I will say also the real reason that their defense was good is my next stock of his side characters is my girl constants the badger is who is just about that life.
Like she’s actual badass. But I think she’s actually the hero of the book. Yeah, she’s my favorite character.
Yeah, me too. Okay. Yeah. By far, while Matthias is off playing adventure story, she’s like, well, I got to actually stay here and actually defend this place because I mean, I don’t know what Matthias is thinking,
but wouldn’t it be helpful just to have him there without a sword, defense helping defend the place I never got to go for her.
But she’s there. She’s devising big bone arrow contraptions. And I wish they let her like off the hook when the scourge comes the first meeting.
Yeah, that’s the head of the snake just killing right there. Yeah, you walked into this place. That was stupid. Yeah, you’re dead now. See you later. What are you going to do now?
Yeah, take that leash off. Who cares about hospitality rights or whatever the case is.
But once you’re threatening someone, it’s like 300 ones. They’re threatening someone in your place. It’s like, well, you can’t fuck down. Yeah.
You came in here respectfully. Maybe we have a little partnership. Maybe you can come in. But now you’re fucking dead. See you later.
And that’s what my girl consents. What it done had they let her off a leash. But the brothers or whatever your boys. I was pouring oil on people.
But you end up like, we got to be hospitable. And next thing you know, he’s letting people on fire. Next thing you know, he’s dead. Yeah. Well, you die for the cause. That’s fine.
No, but I agree. Yeah. He’s like, let’s be hospitable. And then like you said, he’s pouring boiling literally boiling people’s faces off.
Yeah. But then we got, I mean, the main characters I didn’t really love. I mean, I think the day where that great, but all the side characters are awesome.
We got basil, stag hair, great. Yeah. That’s how shit love that loves to eat. Yeah. Basil exposition to we love that log of log. I don’t know. I just like that name.
Yeah. They’re square Julian, Julian ginger beer. I thought it was like ginger beard, but I like that better than the cast. Yeah. And captain snow. I mean, all these people were hilarious. Even the side villain characters were good.
So yeah, I loved it. I mean, the bunch should have been about those people because the good and bad guys like Martin and like what’s you could write. I could write those people.
Like they’re just two, you know, one note. Like they’re like, what’s that? I mean, you have a thought. Sorry. Yeah. They’re just all to one note and same with.
Did you like father Methuselah? They him in like all the other people inside kind of just blended together. So I didn’t really. Yeah. I thought that’s one of the things I really liked about the book. And it was in my loves was that he did such a good job with all the characters that they were all uniquely them.
Maybe Methuselah and the main Abbott guy could have been one and two. But the rest of them were all extremely unique. Any characteristics you knew who they were talking about for the whole time.
Except for maybe the mom and daughter Sparrow. Yeah, those were like the same people just one was the mom and one was the daughter. But yeah, the Sparrow King and he was his own obviously has Medeus was its own thing.
So yeah, I thought they did a really good job with that. Did you have any other stockups?
Last one quick one, arming kids stock up. I was a funny scene. It was a child arming. Basil Stagger is talking to one of like the children or child mice and his mom’s nearby. And he’s like, listen, I can’t give you a sword. Your mom’s right there. They would really be irresponsible for me. Here’s a knife.
I was like, wait, what? I was like, all right. Sounds good. I just like that. Yeah, because the knife yet again, of course, a personal. Yeah, he’s like, you want to feel the blood on your hands.
So already, you might not get that where this is you got to, you know, find that artery and then you feel it. Yeah, I was like, you’re gonna hear their dying breath in your ear. Yeah, this thing. Yeah.
This will affect you forever. My last stock up was cover art. I just had to give a shout out. I didn’t even look it up. That’s that podcasting in my part. But whoever did the cover art for all this stuff.
Not only for this one, but for all of them, honestly, as a kid, I just remember going in and that’s why I read it in the first place because I was into it. I just saw that cover art. And I was like, okay, there’s a mouse Pete Ryan Pete Pete. Pete, Pete, Pete, Pete line with this stuff. He’s got a great job.
Get a wonderful job, Pete. So yeah, I mean, you can look up the rest of the cover art for the other books, but it’s all just so well done. So I appreciate him there.
What about a what was stock down, stock down arranged marriages? Oh, how about the end? They kind of just throw in the marriage. They’re like, all right, as my dying last wish cornflower, you can marry to Matthias, which cornflour, I’ll be honest, we are really, really tough book.
She had a big stand at the Abbey where she saves a bunch of people from a big attack. And what how she rewarded, they’re like, all right, that’s good job. Go back into the kitchen now. I was like, oh, okay, no honorable name passed down door for doing that.
Nothing like and head, you know, mother of the Abbey or anything like that, right? Just something at least nothing given to her. And then they’re like, and Matthias is such a good warrior. He needs a wife to, you know, be there to cook him food and do everything for him.
You’re that now. It was like, that’s the marriage proposal. Like, oh, Jesus. It was kind of like Chabacca in a Star Wars, but they don’t give her, get a medal. She kind of just got shit on it. And then earlier in the book too, I don’t know if you got this.
Matthias is like crying in the corner. I forget why he’s something he’s upset about something cornflower walks in and she’s like, listen, you’re so money babe, you don’t even know it. You’re a brave warrior. You got that swag on top of swag. Every mice want mouse wants to be you.
Female mice want to be with you. You’re like, my boo. I love you. And he’s like, you know what cornflower? You’re right. And you’re okay to and you walks away. And I was like, wait, she’s like, and you’re maybe destined for something. I don’t give a shit though.
I was like, okay. He was crying. I remember he was crying for righteous reasons. You know, I think it was like for the Abby or something like that. So she was like, that’s how you’re a good person because you care this much that you can cry.
Because he’s like, I’m not a man because I’m crying. And she’s like, no, this makes you more of a man. He’s like, that’s so nice. But where is my fucking apple pie? Don’t get it now.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know. Our girl cornflowers. She didn’t get the love she deserved. But I think she did love Matthias. So, you know, it was supposed to be one.
Here’s one note, unfortunately. But yeah. Well, speaking of Matthias, that’s my stock down. It’s, it’s Matthias. He’s just got to get his head out of his ass and quit the sub session with Martin sword.
It was the only thing that was in it. The second they clonnie gets there. He’s like, all right. I got to get this sword, dude. Why?
I didn’t even do this beforehand. Yeah. If you’re so into this sword situation, why weren’t you spending your the rest of your life before this doing?
He’s like, I got to find a sword. They’re like, okay, clonnie’s at the walls. He’s going to siege. Like, we need all hands on deck. He goes, I need to find the sword, dude.
What are you going to do with it? You don’t even know how to swing a sword. You’re amongst apprentice. You know, what are we talking about here? Like focus on the task at hand of protecting the abbey.
And I know it doesn’t play out this way. And he does use the sword to definitely defeat clonnie. But that whole thing doesn’t make any sense anyways, especially because the squire cat said the sword has no power.
He has no training. There was no montage of him learning how to fight with the sword. And then he’s able to just in single combat take on clonnie the scorch.
They say the sword is just a sword. So maybe there are some magical powers that we don’t know about or whatever the case is. But yeah, it was, it was a flaw and potentially potentially.
I can understand that part where their names carved in here. And I was like, oh, yes, they’re connected somehow. So maybe somehow he has like an innate ability to wield the sword.
He and Martin are connected as our clonnie and Matthias somehow that he’s been getting these dreams. But the whole sword quest is really what Matthias is a whole book.
Even at one point when he’s going to try to like get back the piece of the tapestry that has Martin on it, which I guess is a big deal. I don’t know.
It’s a painting or a banner. You said matter a lot back in the day.
Yeah, so I was thinking about that. I was wondering if you always want to hang out your banner. And it means a lot to people. So if it’s a morale thing, fine.
If you’re going to go in a soul mission to do it, even though like the the habit or whatever said not to then go do it. But in that process, he sees and saves some hostages.
But he’s not even really interested in saving the hostages. He’s like, I just need to find this tapestry.
They’re like, help save us Matthias. He’s like, where’s the tapestry? Tell me where the tapestry is. So yeah, Matthias.
Women and children first. Well, actually the tapestry first. So then I also still don’t understand you’re literally looking up to that tapestry every day being like, what a great guy. And everyone, no one thinks, you know what? I want to be like him. I’m in church training or anything like that.
Yeah, he’s a good guy. Right. We’ll talk about what we’re usually doing.
All we needed was a couple pages of that Matthias had a heavy stick that he was practicing with the badger.
He and Constance were just out there and he was fighting her with a sword, which is obviously she’s bigger and better than anybody else. So if he can take her down, of course, you can take anyone else. So that’s the only thing I needed.
I didn’t have any other stock up stock downs. That was the last one for me was finding Nemo stock down.
So I guess everyone else can talk in this world, all the animals, everyone and people are making alliances not to eat other animals, but murdering fish is completely fine. Even the vegetarian was like, yeah, occasionally have some fish salad, but those aren’t real.
No, it’s fine. Every other animal is okay.
All these animal books and movies and stuff, there’s always a line drawn as to where it stops, you know, in the Lion King, for example, it’s Tommon and Pumba just love grubs and they’re just slurping down grubs nonstop.
But if you were to zoom in a little bit, the grubs are going, oh my god, stop eating me.
So, yeah, that’s right. Good point.
If you’re running a business and your ads aren’t working, listen up. Coval marketing has managed over $120 million in ads span across Google, Meta and Tick Tock Ads.
They’ve helped clients actually grow their sales and leads, not just get clicks that go nowhere, paid search, paid social, full digital marketing consulting.
You want less jargon and more results? Then go to coval.io, that’s coval.io and get your free audit and tell them buddy book club sent you.
Got a golf trip or a scramble round coming up?
Four card is the free website your group needs. Set up a match in two minutes, share a link with your crew and everyone’s on the same live leader board all round long.
No more texting for scores.
Real time updates, group chat, photo sharing, it’s all there. Try it on your next round at fourcard.app. That’s F-O-R-E-C-A-R-D dot app.
Did you have a favorite scene or favorite part of this one?
I think just the touch on a little bit, but I think the historical war aspect actually was my favorite.
I know that’s not really a scene, but like they had bettering rams and they had different strategies and they had all these kind of actual war things being talked about, which I thought was kind of cool.
Like for a kid’s book to bring in like historical things and just got to implement that as a siege warfare.
Yeah, it was like how do we get into this place because obviously it’s a well defended like castle like all right well we got to either knock down the door we got to come in from the top we’re coming from the bottom we got like so there was like trying all these different ways.
And frankly they were at a defendant pretty well other than the whole one guy can just open the gate I guess but yeah I mean that was the biggest issue was you got it and they even said like you got to protect the gate.
So I agree with you that that was some of my favorite stuff as well with the honey bee like having the barrel of the honey bees to drop on the people at the battering ram because you know I love battering rams scenes.
In every good siege movie there’s battering rams scenes I mean you have it in Lord of the Rings of course there’s pretty much anything you’re going to have some cool battering scenes and how they decide to do it.
You know usually it’s hot pots of oil or something along those lines so to use in this world a not only a barrel full of bees that then kills all the rats which is another terrible way to die but but then to pour vegetable oil over the side so they can’t.
Yeah make it slippery so they can’t use it was that was next level thinking the tunneling ideas were great from both sides of course you’re going to be tunneling.
I mean up until I mean probably Vietnam and stuff there’s there’s tunneling involves but but in world more one especially if you listen or boy Dan Carlin when he talks about the tunneling that was going on to get between the lines and no man’s land crazy it’s like the craziest job.
So if you’re going to read if you’re watching what’s a call you know about that yeah the blinders they keep on that was his job he was one of the people that was digging in one I can’t really call them but he was one of the the mole people so yeah I thought that was all was all well and good and I enjoyed it thoroughly so yeah yeah yeah I’m with you at that point and we both agree for for best character constants right yeah what did you think about cloney is a bad guy though.
I like I said I think it was little little to one note the accent was terrible I also thought he wasn’t very good like they didn’t really win anything he did so like I was going to say this the kind of in my love zone was but the hero’s journey is typically the hero that needs to do something and then something really bad happens and then something really good happens and it’s kind of cloney the tax and just gets defended against like five times a row.
So it wasn’t really any roller coaster it was basically just the the Abby winning every single time which is very rare at any story but I like that actually so that was kind of funny yeah it’s funny because it was in my lingering questions is cloney actually a warlord or is this all a farce is he just some giant rat who got people to follow him and he has a reputation but there’s no substance to it.
Because like you said he never won anything he never gained an inch until I guess it was a decent idea and I’m sure his idea to get the mouse to go in and open the door for them but one that should never happen there should have somebody on the gate who’s can’t do that so that was unfortunate but also he loses to Matthias he supposed to be this great fighter the only one he killed was the old habit guy who stabbed with his poison tail.
He couldn’t beat Matthias whatsoever and his whole army was pretty much looking to betray him whenever they potentially could have a chance so yeah.
He also like leaked the battering ran plans because he’s like I’m going to use a different plan I was like that’s pretty good idea but then they use the battering ram and then so they’re ready for it and then also he lets the other plans slip because he tells them I was like you’re an idiot then what do you like why would you give them any plans.
None of it exactly that’s what I’m saying I don’t think he was a very good he was a very good either good at intimidate or use ruthless but he was also so ruthless but somehow still have people falling in which I didn’t get that’s I was like yeah he should have been over throwing a while ago
I guess he was ruthless and he knew when people were trying to overthrow him is the two is two skills other than that he was not wasn’t very good but like half of his army got killed in that upturned wagon and some of them were just injured and he could have gone back and grabbed him got him healed up so they could still fight and say that was real that was real.
I thought they were just being like pretending like they’re injured so that they could know because I think at first before they even say oh we’re hurt to the happy people that will help you and they say no screw you before that he’s like someone comes in like no they’re crying out for help after the thing that I don’t worry about it they’re weak or something so I’m good yeah I thought he was a good character I really I mean he wasn’t good warlord but his outfit was pretty sweet.
His battle outfit and I just like to say it’s tail yeah his pure evilness was great you know he was legit the only thing he wanted was power isn’t he’s an 80s bad guy yeah we do love.
He’s a slightly foreign and as an accent based on the book and then he’s just one vote all bad hot screw was actually a great great character he actually had some some shades you know you can pull back the onion and have a little bit of shade.
Well I was going to say one of my loves is it’s just a straight up good verse evil and that’s nice everything that we read has to be layered and cloaked and especially with the thriller stuff you know it’s like yeah they this are they that who’s the good guy who’s the bad guy and then
save it all for the last five pages you know whoa twist wow that’s interesting here it’s just like Matthias is good clonnie is bad and good is going to prevail you know good is good to prevail so it’s like all right how does it prevail and that’s it these creatures are you a mouse you’re good are you a rat you’re
bad are you a weasel you’re bad are you a badger you’re good you know it’s like you’re a rabbit you’re good your fox you’re bad we know we know these things they’re they’re innate we understand these things just you know our own lives you know so
makes us to have the I think that was my that was my lingering question is what I do snakes hypnotize in real life that’s from a jungle book and I think also in Robinhood the Disney
is also in Aladdin okay yeah so is that just a known thing I didn’t know if that was a real or not right is it that I was like wait is it one of those things like sand traps or sand quick sand quick sand where it’s like no that’s just made up a wee every single person stole from it and uses everything now well quick
sand is real I think based on the entertainment we were watching when we were kids they made it seem like we were all going to come in contact with quick sand in our life you know well I think it’s like my theory on oasis is being fake I think there might be one or two but I think they’re not real also
always is yeah and the band thought potentially the band isn’t real yeah also I can assure you oasis are real but I’m a size always I was a side but I’m not real look look I’m pictures of an environment for me there’s not they’re like they’re like AI pictures of them there’s not there’s not humans in them I don’t they’re not real well I don’t think it’s enough that you can just like well some are big enough that you can
you know the any answers would fly out to it in the right is every place sick right I’m sure they do and would the happily don’t read the blog one time the
the blog one time would you get get learned one time yeah so this day I’m good for Ziva like and I don’t know if snakes hypnotize in real life I think it must be like a cobra thing or a snake
charmer but snake charmers they do their flute thing in the snakes move but for my understanding it’s just the movement of the the
is no snakes cannot hypnotize the prey the ideas and myth made by hopper by movies like the jungle book okay cool why the misses exist no eyelids freeze
response small animal freeze to in place let’s see predator they think I was about to get a guy to know eyelids and they move slow yeah
that all makes sense I like it I’m not I don’t believe there I think I think they do I’ll move a stumbling down yeah where what is you love about
right wrong I think it’s one of those books where I talk about a lot of books where I look back at anything it’s worse is one of
the most why look back I’m like that’s actually kind of cool it’s a crazy adventure I mean none of the parts within the
adventure were that great or that fun but like we look back it’s like damn climbed up within like the birds place and then they went to
you know a different field and saw these other one of those other mice called the oh yeah I was the they were like gorilla
true those guys yeah I didn’t know that was a sure was a different animal but I thought it was
yeah sure is definitely different animal I didn’t know that yeah but anyways there’s sure there’s like so much going on the snake
I just kind of a very cinematic like Lord of the Rings meets I mean it is kind of like a little rings there’s big war
than it’s kind of it was kind of pretty cool to think about and again this is an awesome kids book like if this is what I was reading
when I was younger I would have been way more into reading so and these amount of death we talked about which I love for
a kids book to one step down from game of thrones yeah and I think for me to and what attracted me to it when I first started reading it
and I think this I don’t actually remember but I think this is one of the things that got me into like fantasy books
even though this isn’t really there’s no there’s not a lot of fantastical elements besides them being like anthropic
and you know characters there’s no magic really or there shouldn’t be because that sort isn’t magical
but I just love an anthropic adventure you know maybe it was my 90s Disney upbringing where those were some of my favorite movies
and they were always animals or you know a group of like Winnie the Pooh and stuff like that so maybe that’s why I was like okay
this is that wheelhouse but then it’s more fantasy and obviously I have some sort of inclination towards fantasy because I grabbed onto it
but yeah I think that’s one of the things I loved about it was if this was people it wouldn’t have been as enjoyable
yeah yeah I agree with that that’s a good point do you have any other loss?
October a.l I didn’t know that was I thought that like that was something that’s more recent that was invented but that’s inspiring idea
yeah they put a little cinnamon sugar rim on top of it yeah maybe yeah yeah I don’t remember a lot of TV series or any even movies
really having this much death the last 40 years until like recently with HBO type shows right like I don’t remember
like main character yeah like real characters yeah you’d see your henchmen go you know yeah where they’ll get like a bomb
would go off and everyone to be injured but no you know what I mean so yeah it was kind of kind of interesting yeah yeah I loved any hunt for a mythical sword I’m in for and I know I’ve been
shooting on Matthias this whole thing but it was a fun storyline throughout this battle because you know Connie’s doing his whole
siege you’re trying to get in and Constance is really the number one trying to defend Redwall while the whole time Matthias is on the
side quest really to find this mythical sword and whether it’s you know Arthurian Legend which I love and we’ve talked about that
terrible 90s TV show where those football players go back and become King Arthur and his and his nights at the round table which is hilarious
but yeah you know whether this then figure out the stairs like oh the W matches in the middle so that’s the
stair to look at Emma that is or I am that is you know being Matthias and the way that it’s written is you can figure it out you know you can
figure it out right before the characters do so I think as a kid especially if you’re a kid that likes puzzles and stuff
it’s fun because you’re kind of with him on this journey and figuring it out with him the funny part about his hunt for Martin
sword to me though was that it always became a the princesses in another castle type of situation like from from Mario Super Mario Brothers where he
you feel like oh he did all the steps to get there and they’d be like here’s the scabbard it’s like wait what it’s like oh it’s the
weathervane you got to go up there it’s like oh cool the the sword is the weathervane oh that’s probably what it is it’s like nope that’s not it either which then
you know leads into the sparrow king who he asked to defeat which then like national treasure the man yeah yeah exactly it’s like it then it
leads him to the cat who then leads him to the owl which then leaves him to the the snake who he as Matthias who he has to beat to then actually get the sword and go back to red wall to defeat clenny so yeah any
hunt for a mythical sword I’m in for sword and the stone underrated Disney flick by the way what about hates I thought the ending was a little confusing just
lock on on but I did like that he got his bell run at the end I’ll be here all week okay anyways the and there was a lot of you just
mentioned like the the finger things out there was a lot of like by god I figured it out and the guys like what what have you
figured out and then he’d be like you don’t know and then he would explain it and I’m like all right I’m to the fifth time of this like just tell me
what it is I don’t give a shit anymore yeah no I think the biggest thing I wasn’t necessarily like hooks or like I need to go back to
this book it was kind of a little bit slow for me I think again we’re used to reading adult thrillers and this one’s probably set the stage for a lot of
better young adult and kid like books like they’ve taken from this but so I do appreciate that it’s it’s kind of like you know
a good fellows or a godfather where you’re like oh all the other movies just steal from it and that’s why if you watch them now
they seem slow or different or whatever but yeah so yeah it’s not a series that I’m excited to continue
because we’re not the target market I did enjoy it and I thought you it was well said by you in that
this is a type of book where it’s aging nicely in my mind where a lot of times it’s the opposite
and even as I was reading it or listening to it I was like all right this is a little a little childish
whatever the case is but now in retrospect I’m looking back at it that was fun that was a fun
romp like I’m glad I spent time with those characters and I’m not that don’t necessarily need need to go
back to it but it’s definitely something where you know when my daughter’s seven or eight and at least
like on the border of being able to do it it’s like oh I’ll read this to you you know like we can
release together I got you daddy what’s pouring boiling water on someone do it’s like all right well
let’s watch this video well that’s why you don’t charge a front facing castle wall you need to know
obviously that yeah we’re talking about siege techniques oh yeah she’s gonna be the next
Arthur I mean excuse me Alexander which is actually what Dan Carlin is doing his series on now
that’s phenomenal but but yeah so the great Alexander the great yeah okay yeah yeah we’ve
talked about some of the hates that I had so you know none of them were that big but you know the
whole sword actually not being magical yet him being able to kill him was kind of a whole whole
whole for me and I agreed with you on the audio book aspect so yeah I’m sorry of that nothing
nothing really I love in general fantasy books when they have a oh here’s what happened afterwards
but I didn’t really need it for this one and it’s not that long it’s like two pages yeah I didn’t
understand what that it was just like the crops are going in I was like all right what let’s go
yeah it’s a crops are on and they took the two bell they took the one bell and they made it into two
and they named it mithusel and they named the other one Matthias and cordflower is tied to a stove
and she can’t leave because now she’s you know it’s like I don’t need any stuff other news and notes in
that department Netflix did acquire the adaptation rights to the story in 2021 but then sadly in
April of this year it was canceled so they they will not be adapting but there is a kid series from
the 90s I want to say animated series about Redwall and some of the other stories so people can
check that out if they want to all right Keith Redwall what do you give it and who’s the four I
would give it just personally a three out of five but I think if I were a kid it’d be a four to four
to four point five I think that’s how I would raise it but yeah for me it’s it was nice I’m happy we
you know got to relive that but I wouldn’t go back to it as you kind of mentioned and then it’s for
obviously I think you know young adults who probably want a little bit darker like I was when I was a
kid probably would have liked this a lot more so yeah I think your whole mindset would change if
you had read the book and now listen to when I was young yeah no just now listen to the audiobook the
audiobook so yeah yeah yeah and some people love it supposedly I like did some look I looked up
online about the audiobook really oh it’s so great you know I was gonna play a clip for you because I
was like you don’t understand how bad this Clooney boys yeah I know I I listen to it and I and I
understood how bad it was so that’s why I was like as I was reading the book I was like this is great
and then I listened to the audiobook I’d say this is bad so that’s a difference I probably give it a
like I’m gonna say three two five to three five I don’t know exactly exactly where I land well
it’s probably closer to like a three five but okay I think not only it’s just like you said target
market the as a kid I remember loving it so there’s that but I never went back to as a kid so maybe
that tells you something there but like I said it definitely like read it to my kid or encourage them
to read it when they were older and I think if this was you know you’re at a ski house or something
like that and you’re there for a few days and this was it in the wall like this is they’re in the
bookshelf there like this is what I’m taking to the bathroom with me to read a few pages of well
I take it up so okay that’s good all right well that was red wall what do we get coming to next
long came a spider Alex Cross first book by James Patterson yeah James Patterson first book so
people love James Patterson so I feel like we should we should do that and that’ll that’ll be fun
so that’s on that’s on the list it may be coming out next it may not be but we also have
mad mabel is a new-ish book dark humor crime so 4.4 on good reads and it’s already got a lot of reviews
so we’ll get that we’ll get that to go yeah some crime thriller writer out of Australia so I feel like
it’s pretty we can try all both tests out our Australian accents so that’s good yeah yeah we’ll give
that a go I don’t know if the characters are I don’t know if it’s said no well test them out either way
yeah so we got we got those coming up with the next couple weeks so be on the look off of
those and if you’re interested in reading along you know check those out now and then catch up with
us when we do those episodes but Keith thanks for talking red wall as medeus and the like
and I’ll catch you for the next one all righty all right bye now