Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow – Gabrielle Zevin – Episode 60

The Buddies are always looking to the future, they have their eyes set on Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, which also happens to be the name of the book they just read by Gabrielle Zevin. This book was right up the Buddies alley discussing many of the things they love: video games, Boston, and sharing feelings. Gabrielle Zevin novel will put you through a roller coaster of emotions and have you siding with different characters throughout the book. So exactly like a typical Buddy Book Club Podcast. So grab your sleeping bag, N64, and Mountain Dew, and join us as we play through Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow. 

Intro: (0:00-1:25)
Stock Up/Down (1:26-34:04)
Love/Hate (34:05-44:07)
Casting the Movie (44:08:-45:30)
Conclusion (45:31-49:14)

Next Book: MISTBORN: THE HERO OF AGES

Transcript for SEO Purposes 🙂

welcome buddy book club I’m Dylan here
with the Sam to my Sadie or are you the
Sadie to my Sam I’m more of a marks well
then you’re the marks to my Sadie for
sure all right Keith what’s up buddy how
are we doing good good hear the Buddy
book club we’re breaking down some best
sellers and this week we’ll be
discussing tomorrow and tomorrow and
tomorrow and tomorrow that’s yeah just
three just three by uh Gabrielle zavin
if you like writing a book for us to
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download and give good reviews we need
those yeah sure I mean just just listen
and enjoy it or don’t enjoy but listen
that’s fun that’s fine with those two
send us hate mail whatever the case is
Keith tomorrow tomorrow and tomorrow was
a book that I suggested this is a
different book for us really I can’t
think of any other book we’ve read like
this can you I actually thought it was
somewhat similar to Daisy Jones and the
six in the sense of like the rags to
riches yes the story of like an
entrepreneurial story but a company is
the band yeah it’s a forming of the band
but the band is a bunch of techner to
make games yeah no I could see that I
was just going to talk about tomorrow
tomorrow
gaming what else do you need
Keith what do you get for stock up
they’re not got packing speed I myself
fancy myself a pretty fast Packer Oh I
thought I thought this was like a
technical term for a game well yes of
course also package requests sent within
the game is important too but uh
no I’m terrible at folding clothes but
everything else I get it done I know
what I need I get it done not our girl
Sadie though our girl Sadie needs a
lesson or two needs needs me to give her
a few pointers here she’s trying to get
out of a relationship with Dove who is
the shittiest character in the book who
somehow she’s friends with but he’s the
worst person by far in the book I don’t
understand why at the end of the book
they’re like that was a good guy it
seems like he’s like what no Dove is
you know um Philip Seymour hoppin from
Almost Famous I do remember his
character is like this kind of like
Anarchist anti-establishment Mentor
that’s like if it’s popular it sucks is
his mindset that’s Dove but if if Philip
Morris Hoffman was also trying to bang
the kid in that that’s what he is you
know I mean your perspective would
change with the Philips singer Hoffman
if you realize he was trying to hit on
the kid the whole time right wasn’t he
no that’s no he wasn’t in the the movie
I thought if he were you would he would
not like this character I gotta re-watch
Boogie Nights because I’m pretty sure he
was oh that’s in Boogie Nights he does
that I’m talking Almost Famous oh I’m
sorry I’m sorry yes I was in my brain
you said Philip Seymour Hoffman and I
just went to okay if those two
characters combined because I was like
wait and he’s super creepy and weird in
that like he’s got some dovisms in that
too so don’t just worry he’s just this
arrogant piece of [ __ ] but instead of
packing and just getting your [ __ ]
together and leaving it’s a one bedroom
apartment in Cambridge you know and just
bouncing when he’s gone she’s like hey
I’m leaving by the way and then she she
says like she packs over the next three
days until she leaves and then has him
drive her to the airport I’m like what
are we doing here you don’t owe him
anything just rip the Band-Aid off get
the [ __ ] out of there and call her from
LA and say oh yeah I moved out you’re
you’re a [ __ ] see you later yeah
like what are we doing I did find it
interesting that you referred to it as
quote unquote banging which means that
whatever they were doing is very common
and normal to you that’s just the sex
Yeah by banging I think you mean sex and
by sex if you’re equating sex to
whatever they were doing like hey I’m
not gonna yuck anyone else’s yum out
here if that’s it we don’t do that you
know to let your freak flag fly but I’m
just glad that that’s normal for you
because for me you know I’m a I’m a
lights off missionary penis through the
pajama pants kind of guy so uh yeah also
they’re using real handcuffs by the way
which is kind of weird to me right
that’s not you’ve been to a store and
the fuzzy ones right you get the fuzzy
ones right yeah there’s a thing you can
just take them off if you need to they
went to like the police department like
they were gonna buy some of these
handcuffs like they’re hurting her
wrists on them I’m like uh what are you
doing here I’m sure there are insect
shops like ones that have rubber on the
inside or something that’s less abrasive
so that even if things get a little out
of control you know you’re not going to
show up to work the next day looking
like you just tried to escape from the
back of a police cruiser right yeah well
isn’t that a Stephen King book though
where like they’re doing the same thing
and the guy has a heart attack on top of
her and she like can’t get out or
something no because she’ll read that
yeah there’s a movie on it too which I
don’t have no idea how they made a full
movie on that why bury the lead here
first stock up is just gaming gaming in
general
we we both game you’re probably a more
consistent gamer and in terms of
different playing different games like I
pretty much play one game except I did
get obsessed with Red Dead Redemption
too for a while the book is based around
it which is interesting because I’ve
never read a book that’s based around it
that I can remember and in general
gaming it’s a great Icebreaker chicks
dig when you can make Mario slide on the
pole
was there any innuendos there or no just
no okay I mean hey I’ve played um I play
Mario with my nephews obsessed with it
he’s six he’s obsessed with Mario and
the best part about when you play with a
kid is you never have to like pass back
and forth like they’ll play for a little
bit and then they say see you play and
they’re like oh no you just play I’ll
watch which is perfect that’s exactly
what I want to do I hated when you were
like a teenager and you had to pass the
sticks back and forth I hated that but
if they see you like hit that top of the
flagpole it’s like holy smokes how did
you do that like they don’t they don’t
even understand so you kind of are God
so another stock up to gaming right
there and it helps you reconnect you
know you can reconnect over past games
the amount of sleepovers I had where we
just played GoldenEye Super Smash
Brothers maybe some Mario Party mixed in
there a Little Star Fox battle obviously
Mario Kart as well just great times I
mean I even played like Legends of Zelda
Ocarina of Time with a friend where we
were both playing on our own but then we
were together you know we’d like help
each other through whatever
um Temple they were in
and you know Dan Shapiro I’ll never
forget the kid just because of those
memories and so uh yeah gaming it it’s
great we grew up with the best ERA ever
too because
nowadays you don’t need to go to some
I’m assuming like kids don’t go to other
kids house to have a sleepover to do the
split screen you know for a person
which is like yeah that’s my best
memories as a kid is doing that you know
like going over like getting like a LAN
party essentially going where I don’t
know if people do that anymore yeah I
know and then Halo 2 hit right when we
were in college which that might have
been bad because I made no friends my
freshman year of college because I just
played with all of my hometown friends
on the internet which was like kind of a
new idea that you could then play these
like connected games but yeah those
those times are great we just the amount
of sleepovers you had where it was just
you know play all night uh what else you
ever stuck up chain of screaming Theory
stock up huh what I’ll explain it I know
you’re not of uh you’re not Know How I
Met Your Mother fan but this is a theory
that’s presented by Barney Stinson one
of the characters and how I met your
mother how’s your father
get out but anyways the theory is
essentially that the higher up scream
down at the parts people below them and
then they scream below then the
snowboard and scream to the their
subordinates essentially down the line
it goes and that’s what happens in this
book and I’m not sure if this was like a
point from the author to show like hey
these people are under a lot of stress
so they’ll just like they’ll yell at
people for stuff that they’re getting
yelled at but there’s a few instances of
it one is like Sadie just dresses down
at TSH and who’s like oh man I like
video games he’s like you didn’t think I
could make them because I’m a woman
she’s just like yelling at him and I’m
like okay I think she did she did that
in her mind I think and then she just oh
yeah wow that was
that was like a Daydream but yeah I know
what you’re saying still counts I
thought you did it for real and then Sam
picks up a dog he thinks is like a wolf
and like he’s a huge dog yeah or coyote
and she brings it to the vet and the
vet’s like oh like yeah it’s not it’s
not a coyote it’s a you know it’s a dog
but like here’s how you can tell and
he’s like oh okay and then some person
comes up and it’s like holy [ __ ] is that
coyote and he’s like what are you a
you not and it’s like you just were told
this like how why are you yelling at
this person who doesn’t know you
literally were just told this well they
did like [ __ ] shame his dog pretty much
by saying oh get out of here there’s a
coyote there’s a coyote he just made
that this mistake literally like uh a
day ago like how are you possibly going
to be yelling at people like you should
be like oh he’s like I know he’s big but
he’s like he’s a sweetheart and then
like show them and people everyone’s
gonna be good with that I don’t think
he’s that’s not it’s not the point that
he was big he looked like a coyote like
coyotes aren’t big they’re small oh you
did you read this book I’m confused
I don’t get it what is the difference
between a coyote and a dog I have
another shoulder blades [ __ ] rolls
downhill on you right now I’m gonna just
do whatever you’re saying I have one
more example too Sadie shits all over it
Sam because Marx dies and she’s like
that doesn’t like how how would you like
you don’t know what it’s like it’s the
worst thing ever and he’s like we need
to get the company back going or like
everything’s gonna die like we just need
you to chip in here or do something you
know and he’s like I know we have to
like it’s tough we got to go back to
normalcy and then the the two people
that the couple that they eventually
make the game at the end of the book for
reach out to him and he’s like how
this it’s like you just said the exact
same thing to Sadie that they’re saying
to you like literally the exact same
thing it just it just made me not like
these characters at all because they
just one came off as super big
Hypocrites and two they’re in positions
of power in doing that where they’re
like yelling down at people below them I
think she yelled at him I don’t I don’t
care if you didn’t even in her mind to
think that that means she’s a shitty
person in my mind yeah I know you’re you
know you’re serious but I’m just want to
be are you super serious or are you like
hashtag content serious about what the
theory just mostly oh I don’t like the
theory I hate the theory I’m saying the
theory that it’s something that happens
is perpetrated is that the word yeah
it’s a word it’s shown in this book
clearly that it happens yeah which I
don’t like it at all I don’t I think
people that are in a higher above should
be the most patient they have the least
amount of stresses with anyone in my
opinion than the person that’s a TSA
agent has to wake up nine to five and
through Tuesday but that’s just a harder
job than what you’re doing you’re fine
first class somewhere like shut the [ __ ]
up okay okay see what I’m saying yeah
why what where was you where were you
going with that no I was just asking
because I know what you’re saying about
the Sam and Sadie thing at the end but I
feel like that was more of a like
literary choice to kind of wait so you
were on Sam’s side about the dog thing I
was definitely on Sam’s side about the
dog thing oh I was not at all the dog
wasn’t attacking anyone like if the dog
was attacked so she was like there’s a
dog she literally said my bad I like oh
I didn’t realize I just thought it was a
code because I’m ignorant and she
literally admits that she’s like oh I
just didn’t realize like that’s my fault
and he literally the day before was
ignorant he didn’t know he like in like
the the vet talked down to him and he’s
like oh I didn’t like that the vet talk
down to me about that and then literally
he [ __ ] shits on this girl for doing
the exact same thing it’s like wait what
literally
yeah I’m not even saying metaphorically
I said I know I’m making a good argument
because you’re criticizing my speech
impediments here it’s not the argument
itself get the [ __ ] out of here dude man
let’s go all right my next stock up
Oregon Trail back to gaming it’s just
it’s a great game it really is play it
you get to play it in school like how
great was that they’d let you play
Oregon Trail in school as if it was like
an edge are you gonna talk about
anything about the book yeah I’m like
bringing up points of the book you’re
like whatever let’s talk about did you
ever play the original organ Trail like
before it got fancy of course that one
the hunting style was better because you
could move around you know you could
like move your character around but
outside of that not that great of a game
but I did enjoy that people used to die
of dysentery all the time and at the
time I had no idea what it was I thought
it was like typhoid or whatever the
other things you die from but I’m glad
that they were clear so you want me talk
about the book I’m glad they were clear
in the book when they said the dysentery
is just diarrhea and you die from
diarrhea so I you know thank you
Gabrielle for clearing that up for
people that didn’t know what dysentery
was because I didn’t really know either
yeah yeah big problem during wartime too
and there’s another game that was
similar that was a ship like pirate game
and it was very similar but like instead
of hunting you’d like go out and shoot
other ships and it was just battles
there but I always died from scurvy
that’s what I found out yeah so it was
very similar dysentery yeah so I would
always like load up on fruit anytime I
went to Port you know you gotta you
gotta load up on that fruit get that OJ
you know I think I died mostly in Oregon
Trail because I hated paying people to
Ferry me across the rivers I hate it
yeah we’re like they’re like I’m like
we’re fording the river we are
forwarding every time really it’s 20
foot Deep River like there’s no way your
oxen are gonna think I’m like we’re
forwarding doesn’t matter I would have
bet my life it’s forging but I I
couldn’t read at that point either so
yeah is that that’s what it is for sure
like Tom Ford sure I don’t know who that
is Harrison Ford I can’t for isn’t Tom
Ford like the the designer oh maybe yeah
I should have said what’s the main
forward name Ford automobiles yeah
what’s the guy’s name Henry Ford Henry
Ford
yeah uh top five in in games in school
games along with the number crunchers
and gizmos and gadgets uh what else you
got for stock up how many other stock
UPS oh okay I think I got a bunch then
acting as if so once Marx dies it’s
tough you know everyone’s feeling it a
little bit but Sam who’s a cantankerous
person probably not the most social
person and has a tough time connecting
with people I guess is is the bottom
line he just decides you know what I’m
just gonna do a
wwmd you know what would Marx do this is
a good thing that all people can take
it’s just hey maybe there’s some
shortcomings in your own life we’re all
not per perfect but think about a person
who is good at that in your life and try
to replicate what they would do because
once he starts pausing for a moment and
like considering other people’s feelings
except for the two game designers that
their perspectives well he does that at
the end you know he eventually gives
them the time today and apologizes
sometimes you just have to act as if you
don’t have to believe it you don’t have
to believe the things you’re saying
necessarily but if you just say hey you
know what would this person do he just
become you can become a better person
and that’s what happened to Sam so stock
up acting as if he also uh kind of like
similar to what Jesus he renamed himself
just Mazer and he’s like I only go by
that name yeah like Jesus so good for
him yeah I guess he’s trying to be that
yeah I didn’t know his name was Samson I
guess until Midway through the book and
that’s a great name so I’m into the moon
doctor said I need a backy out of me
um my other stock up is a story that
doesn’t have a romantic relationship as
the backbone so I feel like most stories
that’s that’s the gym I’m excited for
our 100th episode when we get to watch
50 Shades of Gray because it’s episode
16. sorry
gotta get that on Libby early
you’re not buying it you already have it
you know you have it already are you
you’re pretending I hide it behind my um
Twilight books
but you know it’s just it’s nice to know
that you can have a story without this
romantic relationship being at the
Forefront granted there are romances
within the book between all sorts of
folks but and there is some level of you
know the idea of romance between Sam and
Sadie but it’s really just about their
their friendship and their collect their
collaboration I mean Sade even says
lovers are common well true
collaborators in this life are rare So
Keith I’m just gonna say here I’m glad
we never became lovers because we are
true collaborators and I would fear that
the intimacy would really ruin what we
have which is a different level of
intimacy maybe even more intimate than
if we had either either of us had
penetrated the other so
you can be intimate without penetration
kid come on I mean what yeah look at it
anyways Christopher Reeves I never
thought Sam and her had any chemistry
even like their first interaction rubbed
me the wrong way friendship I was in
chemistry yeah well the first
interaction Sam’s like just just uh you
know hasn’t seen her in like whatever
years he’s just like just skip class
just get it’s like no you when you’re
like going to someone to get them to do
something you put yourself out there not
the other way around it’s not like this
is what I need you to do you’re gonna
like you’re gonna skip class You’re
Gonna Cancel that we’re gonna go here
and do what I want to do it’s like no
when you’re offering something up you
need to be like yeah whatever you want
to do what time are you free that could
have turned into a romantic relationship
if you pulled a boss move and she was
like oh my train’s coming I can’t look
at this Magic Eye anymore he’s like
don’t worry about it and just rips it
off the wall and gets on the train with
her he’s like we’ll look at it on the
train on the way to your class boom sex
done yeah well I guess for her she
wanted a more dope thing you’d have to
like beat her over the head with it and
then uh okay my next stock up uh
community service so you had to do
community service in high school right I
think everyone did I was not as good of
a person as I think I am now as I was in
high school granted I did all of my
community service but it was really
saying you’re better now than you were
in high school I think so I’m a better
person now okay well the the male brain
doesn’t
actually like finish forming until
they’re 25 or something along those
lines so the idea of me being a 16 year
old idiot is is fair I’m okay with that
what about the female brain I actually
don’t know it’s around the same time but
it’s earlier it’s earlier than 25.
um but community service for me at the
time was it was all about gaming the
system kind of like what Sadie did here
in terms of she just spent a whole time
like the whole time playing video games
with her friend and was like oh I had to
go to the hospital so there we go 600
hours you got an award for it and
actually accepted it
but like imagine the kid who had 250
hours like digging wells in Tanzania and
Sadie comes in like getting an award
straight out of the Star Wars movie like
just getting this in word and the person
saying they’re calloused hands fingers
yeah exactly like what the [ __ ] she I
know she just was in this Hospital
playing Mario with her friend that’s a
bunch of bread right but I in high
school did like lacrosse camps and stuff
like that for kids like for free which
is also like the people who run the
camps gaming the system because they’re
collecting paychecks from these families
and not paying you anything but it was
you know it was a win-win for all of us
because I didn’t have to do terrible
things but I mean if you were a free
Camp it would it would have kind of way
more yeah that would have been better
the fact that yeah they’re just taking
advantage of you essentially what did
you what did you do for um community
service in high school did you like
teach other younger swimmers how to
shave their armpits and stuff
did a lot of a Special Olympics stuff oh
nice I was way well over my hours like I
didn’t need any more hours but my
favorite teacher I might have told you
this airport my favorite teacher oh no
and he’s like hey was his name dove no
no he’s like we need people to shovel
elderly people’s steps you know when it
snowed you’ve already preferencing
multiple times but I swam so the only
way I could go is I’d have to leave
early like drive over to that place and
shovel and then come back for some
practice okay so it’s not a few times I
would leave go to shovel it and then
come back soon practice yeah I went like
three times
already shuffled doesn’t give me a call
doesn’t give me anything and then so
then from now I was like all right well
I guess that doesn’t need me so I just
stopped going and then the next time it
snows they call this kid hasn’t been
here I’ve been waiting for him where is
he at he’s supposed to and I said oh I
guess it’s just people don’t give a [ __ ]
about you until they need something
that’s what community service is it I
became so jaded after that I was like I
didn’t need to do this I was doing it to
be nice no one gave a [ __ ] about me when
I drove out there but now they care when
I’m not there well I’d appreciate if you
if you don’t cut that because you know
key community service is about giving
it’s not about you know people letting
you know but hey at the same time like I
said your brain was still plasticizing
I’m still I’m still angry about it
uh my last stock up is and we kind of
talked about this or at least beat
around the bush
emphasis on beat is uh toxic
relationship stock up because I would
argue you that Sam and Sadie have a
fairly toxic relationship I mean they’re
at the point after Ichigo and from there
on out it’s pretty much
they can’t talk with each other in a
collaborative style without fighting
like yes they end up getting good work
done but they just are always fighting
and obviously Sadie and Dove have a
toxic relationship as well I mean but at
the end of the book both Sadie and Dove
and Sadie and Sam are like bffls which
stands for best friends for life
so I I was kind of taken aback by that I
was like Wow Dove did some like really
did appreciate that he always asked for
consent except for that last one where
he didn’t really you know she just said
like okay fine it’s you know I know
what’s coming like how could you then
have a relationship with people and I do
understand the idea of like Time Heals
most wounds and they don’t say all
wounds because it definitely doesn’t
hear all wounds but you know you have
perspective maybe later on when you’re
in your late 30s about a relationship
you had in your 20s but you were you
know like we’ve already talked about
like her her brain was still forming and
this guy used his influence and like the
fact that he was your teacher and like
super successful to allow him to put
wine bottles in her butt and I made that
part up but I feel like that definitely
happened
and and salmon City they just don’t you
know they just don’t work well together
because they have all this weird baggage
that they refuse to let go so it’s
emphasize a lot that this is a male
dominated field that like women don’t
get a lot of chance and your first
person that helps you out is in it for
sexual relationships it’s like oh that’s
not a good look at all you know like
that’s pretty terrible to have that as a
mentor like so you should never talk to
that person again probably but instead
she’s like yeah we’re like best friends
now huh yeah and like the whole time
between that it’s just like they’re like
Dove’s an [ __ ] like marks like Dove’s
an [ __ ] it’s like yeah Mark if I was
Marx I’d be so pissed like Marx just
doesn’t seem like that kind of guy that
you know gets super she gets pissed at
Sam because Sam is like hey we should
like this guy’s video game is pretty
legit we should like use his engine and
she’s like oh my God you made me go talk
to him and then made me do that
relationship for three years and then
made me call him three months after we
broke up and made it’s like what you did
all these things yourself like can you
wake up like what are you talking about
yeah take some ownership of your actions
for sure and are you team Sadie or are
you team Sam and it’s so hard because I
feel like the whole time they were
arguing back and forth and there’s
definitely some gray Air which I
appreciate from the author here because
no one’s right no one’s wrong everyone’s
wrong kind of thing
um yeah and I appreciate that kind of
mentality but in general are you team
Sam are you team saving I’m definitely a
team Sam I mean at first I hated Zam
because of the him whining about the
community service thing so I didn’t like
him in the beginning I was team Sadie
and then it definitely switched after
she like I said she got mad at him for
the seems like he didn’t even know and
even if he did be like hey we need to
launch this game go talk to your boy
here like that doesn’t mean you need to
go back into a relationship with him and
then she blames him for that and again
she’s still angry at him and still and
then talking to Dove while she’s still
angry at him so what are you angry for
Adam for I was 100 team Sam and Sam
actually went through [ __ ] he like he
actually is in physical pain he’s like
had a really tough upbringing uh which
he kind of brings up a lot which is
annoying but like you know at least you
can empathize get over your foot which
the bone is sticking out of like kick
the soccer ball Sam for Christ’s sake
Sadie’s biggest problems are what other
people think of her and not her own
issues which so it’s like well how can
you empathize with someone like that and
she’s like well people don’t respect me
it’s like who cares you know like that’s
not a problem that’s just your own
problem in your mind I agree with you I
was team Sadie at first because Sam’s
gripe and like the why he stopped being
friends with her it is I can understand
you being hurt and he was a child so
it’s fair but because you understand you
being you being hurt from that but at
the same time it’s like she needed 20
hours of community service she was there
40 hours remember the number is right
she was there for 600 and whatever like
obviously you guys are friends like she
wants to maintain the friendship and Sam
just like shutting that out and instead
being like no I’m just he just wanted to
be upset about it so like maybe that was
just a part of his life that he wanted
to be upset at because he didn’t have
like something specific to be angry at
for the terrible fate he like life had
given him so that gave him some like
direction for it but at the same time
it’s like Sam get over it but then when
Sadie starts blaming over the dove stuff
it’s like whether or not he knew like no
one’s forcing you to do anything right
and you can use Dove’s engine and have
him as a producer on the game but just
you don’t have to be like fine Sam if
you want to do that but I I’m not
talking to him like you’re the point of
contact right you know right simple as
that it’s like going to a bar something
like hey you want a beer and they’re
like well he should have known I’m an
alcoholic and should have known I would
have drank a ton from it’s like well you
can’t just like add up all the things
after someone like yeah I see one
reference and and then later what was
the other part you were talking about
I’m sorry uh oh oh no sorry I was in my
thoughts while you were talking which is
important uh when she was mad at Sam for
like being the face of Ichigo and
whatnot and it’s like everyone thinks
it’s his game or whatever the case is I
can totally understand I mean I can’t
understand from a woman’s perspective
but I can imagine how that must be
considering the industry and them just
kind of looking at you like oh you
didn’t do so much when Sam’s really just
the artist and you’re the person that’s
actually creating this game like Sadie
in my mind worked harder on these games
than Sam did but Sam being the face of
it it’s like okay well one you can be
the face of it you can go on these trip
2 if you want you don’t have to just let
Sam do it and then additionally salmon
never said like oh it’s mine he was
always like no no that was Sadie’s no no
Sadie did that like that Series game
when her game stunk and people like
Sam’s version more she was mad because
that’s the case but it’s like sorry
that’s just the way it is like people
liked his thing more it’s not a big deal
it’s not his fault you know it’s not his
fault that that’s the way it turned out
and she got them mad about him the way
that he was reacting to her grieving and
like Caroline and I you know the wife
here but we talked about it too because
she was like yeah that was like [ __ ]
up of Santa be like come back to work
and I’m like whoa they’re running a
multi-million dollar business like yeah
a lot of people others people’s lives
Sam’s grieving too this is his best
friend like I know it’s the father of
her kid and her lover and the person you
want to spend the rest of her life with
but Sam’s grieving as well but you know
people’s livelihoods are at stake like
we got to keep this thing going and it
was as simple as him saying fine if you
don’t want to do it that’s totally fine
but like let someone else take it on
right right and she was like no that’s
just the way you want like you want to
take over it’s like no that’s not at all
it’s like damn if you do damned if you
don’t you got to give me one one thing
to do here at least yeah so
I will give Chris City Credit she got it
done so she did I respect that she
kicked out yeah you just got to be like
listen I’m gonna get it done don’t worry
about it it’s like all right yeah there
it is exactly yeah exactly
um all right wow that was that was a lot
of stock UPS yeah good good for me for
going off the cuff here all right what
do we got for Stockton well the stock
down is kind of the exact same thing
you’re just talking about but Stockton
arguing and appreciating what you have
those are those two different things or
both of those things are stocked down
they’re both I’m selling both of them
for the arguing thing Sam and Sadie you
can already mention it or the two worst
arguers in the world are just two worst
people that like expressing what they
want to say they’re they remind me of
like the kids from from like uh growing
up where you couldn’t make a joke around
them or couldn’t like rib them in any
way you’d be like hey those shoes look
oh look at these your Dad’s shoes and
they’d be like I hope your dad dies and
I’m hiring you grow up fatherless you’re
like what like holy [ __ ] like you can’t
like make any jokes at them because
they’ll take it way too far yeah that’s
what they were they’d be like oh the
game isn’t like great and she’s like
you’re this this and she’s just like go
right on into the war worst possible
thing she thinks to Sam or in the same
thing back he’d be like well you would
grow up rich and you were this and just
like can we just talk about the creative
aspect like why are you guys arguing
like this in such a shitty way and I
also need my boy marks to just be sit
them down and be like yeah you guys are
making problems that are not a big issue
where there’s no one in the company
that’s like stealing stuff like we could
be another company that we have actual
problems we don’t have actual problems I
mean until the guy shows up with a gun
that was pretty bad but before that like
there’s not one no one’s harassing
people in the office there’s no one
stealing money there’s no one like
taking money and you know company money
money and using it on hookers and blow
like there’s a lot worse things that
could happen in the world than you guys
slightly disagreeing on your creative
Direction like you guys are in a pretty
good place but they like couldn’t step
back and appreciate what they had and
they couldn’t argue with each other so
those two things are just annoyed me
about both of them that’s a good point
yeah I just I don’t it reminded me like
a CW show a lot oh yeah two trees down
the hill yeah yeah Gossip Girl or the
like you’re like well I guess there’s
gonna be have to be some drama so let’s
make this small thing a big deal you
know it’s like okay uh I actually only
have one stock down and it’s uh the New
York Times because in their review of
tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow they
said and I quote this is how it starts
this is the first sentence of their
review most kids who play a lot of video
games don’t grow up to become Avid
readers
one ouch how dare you because I played a
lot of video games and I reconsidering
myself an Avid Reader and two where’s
your research like this is the New York
Times you’re just grabbing this out of
thin air and just putting it on paper
because it sounds like good copy like
get the [ __ ] out of here where does it
even come from video games in general
are stories you know at least you know
they used to be and I think there’s
there’s still a bunch that are but now
there’s just so many video games it’s
kind of hard to do it and at this point
in my life I pretty much use them as
like a tool for socializing and
especially the games they were making
yeah like the games back then are are
books essentially yeah the games that we
played as a kid like how many words are
in Ocarina of Time like probably two
novels and or Final Fantasy I remember
my buddy playing Final Fantasy and I’m
like Okay cool so you just read the
whole time like that’s what you do
that’s why I didn’t like those games
yeah yeah okay stock down New York Times
I used to trust you but uh I don’t
anymore yeah that’s a good that’s a
great call yeah
um what else did you ever stock down
last one sharing emotions stock down you
don’t make me demon you know me yeah I
plant myself firmly in the the have no
emotions don’t share emotions Catholic
guilty yeah the Irish Catholic way you
know that but I might change camps
because both characters they clearly
have issues communicating with each
other because they’re just not sharing
what’s going on in their like heads in
any way which is fine if you just bury
it deep down and do your job like Billy
Belichick but they were like not showing
up to work or showing up late or like
not doing things and then being like why
it’s because of these things like we’ll
Express that like either you have to
express it or you can’t complain about
and do your [ __ ] job one of the two
you can’t be in the camp of like they
should know that I might like foot’s
hurting they should know that that’s why
I’m showing a place like no just reach
out to someone and say yo my foot’s
you want to like send the stuff to my
house and I’ll start working on it you
know something like that where I like
just communicate but just not showing up
or not doing your job and thinking
people should know that you’re having a
tough time is not acceptable in my book
so you yeah do one of the two either
share your emotions or don’t but don’t
we’re in each character’s head and
they’re having these which I think is a
human thing where you have these ideas
that like people are upset at you or
you’re upset with them and you just
build them up so much as opposed to just
being like hey what did this thing the
other thing kind of pissed me off
whatever the case was putting it out
there it just solves all the problems
just say you know what I mean gets it
off your chest they they can take it in
and you can just move on with your day
as opposed to just like letting those
things faster so I’m with you there
thank you
Keith what’d you love about tomorrow and
tomorrow and tomorrow Gabrielle zavin I
mentioned it before but book flew by for
me I I read this in like a weekend kind
of was like locked in and it gave me
Daisy Johnson at six fields which is my
number four book that we’ve read so
there’s a lot a lot of good stuff here
and again if it’s the worst thing that
it can be is like I liked Star Wars the
book before but it felt like it was like
a hundred hour book this book felt like
it was a four hour book and I’ve already
kind of gone over some of this issues
I’ve had with it but like that gets you
talking that gets you thinking about it
which is the best thing you can say
about a book 100 yeah like all of our
comments are interesting because
that you know it’s perspectives on these
characters so I guess that’s one of my
loves and when I asked when I asked the
the wife here what what she loves is
just the characters themselves there’s
there’s no right answer to how we
perceive those characters just how like
they perceive each other so I thought it
was like really good character
development and also the conversations
that were back and forth you know you
can you’re almost picking sides with
them like we just did you know you’re
almost picked up like wait who’s writing
this argument who’s wrong yeah and yeah
and then you almost have to realize that
oh it doesn’t matter who’s right or
who’s wrong but like that person’s
hurting and they need help and like
that’s when you’re like start to feel
frustrated because
it’s like oh you just want these people
to help each other but instead they’re
like at each other’s throats like using
the other person as their way to focus
their anger or their frustration yeah as
opposed to like building it together
which you know eventually they do at the
end so I thought the characters in terms
of Sam Sadie and even Marx as well were
were really well developed and just
interest like layered they’re like like
Shrek you know they’re like an onion and
it was fun to kind of peel those layers
back what else do you love entrepreneur
stuff I always like I really liked uh
like shoe dog obviously that was based
on a real story but like just the
building up of like a ragster which is
always any book that’s gonna be about
that I’m gonna like it’s just
interesting to me and it also kind of
resonated with me it’s about video games
I love video games I wish I was a
programmer but I’m not smart enough and
it took place in Boston and California
so all right your boys out well that was
my love is boss is Boston because she
Nails I mean I’m sure she spent a lot of
time there I doubt she just like did a
lot of research as someone who grew up
less than you could smell the teeth
for like less than 10 minutes from the
place that it’s taking place all the
streets she was referencing and like oh
like Brattle Street’s tough around here
I was like yeah it is it’s pretty
like I it was it was all on point so
yeah it’s definitely fun when you have
these although they made uh the Boston
winners feel like it was Antarctica it
was it’s not that bad come on yeah grow
up yeah well it depends if you’re
walking around with a foot that like
your bone is poking out of well if you
grew up in California you’re not you’re
not Boston tough that’s that yeah
Dunkin Donuts out there dude yeah yeah
they reference a phantom toll booth
really early in the book which I don’t
know if you’ve ever read but it was my
favorite book as a kid and people
usually don’t talk about the Phantom
toll booth so yeah I was I was jazzed
that the book had shouted that out so
I’m hoping that Gabrielle’s Evan was
like a big uh fan of pill Booth fan as a
kid or whatever because it it was It was
kind of one of the like the first real
novel that I had read I think ever and
then also definitely the first one I’d
read like multiple times so all right
yeah good for you shout out Phantom till
Booth uh what about hate I thought the
characters were a bit unlikable Sam
Sadie’s uh Sadie’s sister I mean I think
it’s good when they’re murky when it’s
like we were like I don’t know if I who
was side I’m on but like I just didn’t
like either of them by the end I told
you like some of the stuff was the
hypocrisy and some of it was like
they’re in positions of power and
they’re kind of looking down on people I
didn’t I never liked those type of
people so by the end I didn’t really
like their characters yeah Sam you can
at least empathize with a little bit him
like being like my name’s now Mazer and
I’m going like this symbol and like I’m
the face like all right buddy yeah and
he had like uh he was wearing like
coveralls or like I think it was
coveralls that he decided to wear like
straight out of uh a communist Group
which I kind of like the idea of
coveralls just being like your thing
imagine if you just stepped into
coveralls every morning like that was it
just like Dickies coveralls like you
were about to go to work as a mechanic
it is kind of a great it’s not supposed
to be like an apple guy Steve Jobs and I
think that was the idea the thing I
hated the most was the middle part of
the book where it was just like Sadie
and Sam like fighting back and forth and
it was like just rehashing the same
fight over and over and over again it
just felt redundant okay so now it’s a
new setting new game but same fight like
they’re gonna fight about the same thing
it’s like season four of a TV show where
they just repeat the same story lines of
season one except for the wire which
doesn’t do that but the wife agreed with
me on this one too she was actually
saying she was waiting for something to
happen and we were reading this at the
same time I was a little bit ahead of
her so I was like don’t worry like
something does happen so I’ve never seen
anybody more excited for a awesome
shooting yeah like someone going postal
then then she was so she was clapping
for this thing and and trust me I I let
her know I was like would you clap your
car Columbine so uh
she said you know and rightly so that is
a fictional universe and so she can clap
for whatever the [ __ ] she wants to and I
appreciated that you know put me in my
place did you did you hate anything else
the other thing too is just Sadie’s
character I completely got she’s just
like a brilliant kind of introvert Fish
Out of Water and so in the sense that
she’s in a community that’s like not
really women friendly but Sam’s
character didn’t make a ton of sense to
me like I don’t know anyone that could
possibly be like Sam’s character he’s
also a super introverted doesn’t really
talk to anyone barely communicates with
people secluded but then somehow he’s
this amazing order that can be a great
Storyteller in the face of the company
do you know any person in your life that
somehow doesn’t talk to anyone but
shines when they get in front of
multiple people and then also comes
becomes an incredible Storyteller also
it didn’t make any sense to me I would
think that you’d want to put also Sadie
as the face of the company she’s an
attractive woman she’d basically be like
a Tiger Woods of the industry right it
should be like breaking all these
barriers and doing all these things
we’re like holy [ __ ] look how good this
person is like that would be who you’d
want is a face no like and she seems
like she can communicate a little bit
better but somehow Sam is that person
which didn’t make a lot of sense to me
yeah I think it’s a good take sorry to
just like completely change the subject
but
what is your take on as a gamer on
MMORPGs because that was a lot of what
they were pushing at the end of it
what’s your thoughts on that I I’m not
I’ve never been big into this story
stuff well that’s how the story The the
MMORPG is what they got into it’s the
massive multiplayer online role-playing
Games like World of Warcraft or
something like that right right I don’t
know I’ve never I’ve never been into
them I I just don’t I think it’s just a
lot of time and you need to be super
super into the story even though I I
know it’s not a story but like if it
were Star Wars and they have one of the
first Star Wars then maybe I consider it
but like you to be in a world all the
time you really need to love love that
world which I don’t really there’s
nothing that’s like need to be my
buddy’s brother was like obsessed with
World of Warcraft but he could have at
one point sold like his character for
he’s like oh yeah this character and we
were in high school he’s like yeah this
character is probably worth like two
thousand dollars and I was like what
like two thousand dollars that’s like
more money than I can imagine anybody
that was wild that then someone could
just like take your avatar and like be
you but yeah I’ve never played any MMR
RPGs either and then follow-up question
what do you feel how do you feel about
like story based uh games considering
that you know we’ve played Call of Duty
lately because we have like the
opportunity to like socialize as we’re
gaming and you’re a big
um DOTA fan which is more of like a
chess in video game world but these are
like quick hitters like it’s not like a
story surrounding it whereas like I
played Red Dead Redemption 2 somewhat
recently and like probably put 40 hours
into it or something like that and I had
a good time with it although I didn’t
say I think it was necessarily compelled
by the story it was more of the like
open world aspect but what do you think
about like story based stuff yeah more
of a a skip the cutscan
so I’m not like super again if it were a
super compelling story which I’m trying
to think of I played one of those Star
Wars where it lets you choose the
dialogue and lets you choose your
actions I thought that was kind of cool
where so like you could be dark side you
could be light side and you could like
hey we can kill this guy or we can and
steal his money or we could help him
against these bad guys you can choose
that that
right exactly yeah that stuff I can get
behind otherwise it’s like yeah I’m here
for a good time not a long time you know
I mean or whatever the saying is I think
that’s it yeah yeah my brother just came
home from college and he has a PS5 so he
gave me his PS4 I was like hey just you
know if you want it and I was like sure
I’ll I’ll play with it because he’s got
some games on it and so I’m really
excited because a bunch of the games are
like story based single-player games
he’s got you know the new God of War
Game he’s got ghost of tsushima which is
you know the samurai-based game and he
has Star Wars unleashed which uh sounds
super fun so
um if it were a game and they probably
have these but I wish these were it’s
like a four player co-op where you all
play together and it’s a story I think
they’ll be sick you all discuss what’s
going on like it basically be a book
club you know but with video games I
mean that’s like d d if it was like D
and D but yeah right yeah
RPGs are but those are all by yourself
no I guess that’s true yeah yeah
if you’re with a group of friends I mean
with a group of friends I like how we
started this by me asking you what an
MMR if you like ml RPGs we both said no
but then we got to the point where like
actually that’d be pretty sweet let’s
get these Cooperative missions you know
all right so do we want to cast the
movie because the movie rights did get
bought they got bought by Paramount or
something like that they paid 2 million
for the movie rights it’s gonna be in
the works I don’t know if you had you
had cast anyone but I obviously did not
so I did Ezra Miller for Sam I think
that would make more sense for whose
character Sam character needs to be so
he’s like Ezra Miller you’ve seen him
he’s like the flash or whatever yeah but
he’s a little bit eccentric so you could
see him being quite smart but also like
he couldn’t be in the front of a room
and like galvanized a crowd type guy
right whereas like the Sam they have in
the book I don’t think could do that
where Ezra could he could I could also
see him being like an introvert I don’t
know if you’ve seen The Wallflowers
yeah yeah actually I don’t think I have
no I haven’t seen the movie I think that
he would be more like that character
where in his small little circle he’s
like can be like a leading voice whereas
in like the outside world like people
think of him as a nerd or whatnot that’s
like what he is and then I is Emma
Watson from that book also from that
movie too so give me Zen give me Zendaya
so how you say your name give me her for
Sadie okay okay I don’t hate that um
yeah so who do you have for Marx I had
Ki Hong Lee he was in uh a couple a
couple movies there that I’ve seen him
in he’s a good looking dude I’ve seen
him in Maze Runner that’s what I
remember him from but I’m just looking
him up he’s dreamy
so tomorrow tomorrow Keith would you
recommend this book to our listeners out
there yeah I also didn’t really love the
ending I shouldn’t put in the hates but
the ending seemed to drag a little bit
which kind of left a sour taste a little
bit of my mouth on that no just because
it seemed like it there was like no real
ending it just like went on for three
hours of nothingness but I liked again
if you’re looking for a book to to pick
up and and Buzz through and kind of
debate some different relationships and
stuff and things like that I think this
is the one for you grab it I I’d
recommend it it’s not a top ten at one
point it was when I was reading it was a
was I was kind of It kind of jumped out
yeah yeah I said it same thing like not
not a top 10 for me
um I did enjoy it I might have enjoyed
it a little bit less than you actually
it just and I did think it was very
readable like it was going by and I was
really you know I was enjoying that
experience but
um I I enjoyed actually reading it at
the same time as the wife here because
uh you know we were able to talk about
it and it’s fun to what did the wife put
it at well I don’t know I mean she’s
more of a Harry Potter type person you
know so she’s she’s she slipped it in in
between Harry Potter books what number
read is that for her I think this is her
second or third she didn’t get into
Harry Potter until her and I started
dating which is wild wow
do you think maybe that that she
Associates Harry Potter with you and
therefore you have a higher level of
esteem or a higher level of uh I know
what you’re saying no but what she did
that’s marketing 101. it’s a really good
job you recorded Me by reading Harry
Potter so I mean talk about next level
here she knows I love Harry Potter so
she’s just like oh and she started
reading Harry Potter and then would use
that as an excuse to like hit me up here
and there like oh this part’s really
good and knows that I’m obsessed with it
so I was like you know going to respond
and be super happy I mean I’d respond to
her I’d respond to her anyways but uh
but yeah so she used that very
advantageously it’s a win-win for her
she had to read Harry Potter and then
also was able to use that to get to get
me uh giving her the the twinkle in my
eye so and other places I like how
you’re getting courted by the way then
when I bring up the this kid doesn’t
understand hitch because he’s never
lived it this is this is what I’m
talking about right here mind you I did
with the S yeah I was like you gotta
read these Harry Potter books she’s
never read them and now she thinks Harry
Potter Keith they’re linked now you know
it’s like a a good song with a brand you
know it’s great marketing that’s all you
do yeah yeah so in general I I like the
book not a top ten I think it’s in the
top half you know what I mean it’s it’s
in the top half of books we’ve read I
liked how it was different I like the
character development and whatnot
um yeah so so that was tomorrow and
tomorrow and tomorrow uh we suggest you
all go out and read it if you haven’t
yet
and uh what do we got coming up next are
we going back to Sanderson yeah we’re
doing and hopefully we get this one done
by then but the mistborn the hero of
Ages book three of the mistborn series
we’ve read the first two already on the
Pod so we’re we’re closing that chapter
we’ll just be our first
um Trilogy that we’ve like actually read
info I’ve only read a second book of
anything other than that yeah well we
did read the other red risings or at
least I did but we didn’t we didn’t oh
yeah why I don’t know maybe we’ll have
to reread but yeah so we gotta hear the
ages coming up we’re gonna see Vin
going back
Lord Allen all the good all the good
characters so yeah I’m excited for that
I’m already like six hours in Keith so I
would say I haven’t enjoy the memorial
day but this will be released afterwards
so I hope you did enjoy your Memorial
Day and uh we’ll catch you for a Hero Of
Ages all right bye now