Rough Cuts – Glenn R. Miller (INTERVIEW) – Episode 147

The Buddies are in the cutting room this week for Rough Cuts, the brand-new comedy from Glenn R. Miller, and the author himself stops by to talk shop. Set in the 1920s, the story pits a Hollywood director chasing his legacy against a young Ohio minister who’s just been handed the power to censor movies. Glenn tells the story behind the story, which starts with a box of real censorship cards found in his mother-in-law’s attic. The Buddies talk satire, silent film, and how every page of this book has a joke. They also look up too many fancy words, argue about oatmeal, and debate communion wine during Prohibition. Press play, and don’t censor yourself.

Intro (0:00-0:49)

Interview (0:53-32:09)

Post Interview Discussion (33:13-50:16)

NEXT BOOK: Along Came a Spider by James Patterson

Transcript for SEO Purposes 🙂

Hi, welcome to my book club.
I’m Dylan, here with man who is in the silent
film era of podcasting, Keith, what’s up buddy?
Facebook radio and a voice for typing.
– We’re here with my book club where we’re gonna
have some best sellers.
And this week we’ll be discussing brand new
hot off the presses Rough Cuts by Glenn R. Miller.
If you’d like to our kind of book for us to read
which is our past episodes, you can visit our website
buddybookub.com or sign door DMs on Twitter or Instagram.
That’s buddybookub podcast.
Listen to us on iTunes, Spotify, wherever you’re podcast,
download, subscribe, five star review will be helpful.
We’re gonna jump right into an interview with Glenn.
So have a listen and I hope you enjoy it.
Today we’re chatting with Glenn R. Miller
about his newest novel Rough Cuts.
We’ll be hitting the shelves.
September 29th.
– That’s right, Glenn.
Yep.
Glenn, appreciate you taking the time to chat with us.
I do have a first initial question.
Do you include the R so that people don’t confuse you
with Glenn Miller, the military band leader
who disappeared over the English channel in 1944?
Good for you, Good history there.
Yeah, that is absolutely right.
I always throughout my professional career
I was just Glenn Miller.
And the publisher said you need to stick some letter
in between Glenn and Miller
’cause that other Glenn Miller is sucking up half the warranted.
And so I simply went with my middle initial.
And as it turns out, there is a director by the name
of Glenn R. Miller.
And he focuses on, I think it’s either zombie or vampire
or some sort of movies, but he’s mainstream.
So he’s not taking up quite as much as the big band leader,
but he’s out there as well.
Yeah, I could be worse.
It could be more like a Boogie Knight’s director.
So, you know, yeah.
Absolutely right.
He’s not.
He’s a very credible man.
– And what’s going on with the original Glenn Miller?
It’s been 80 years people like, let’s move on.
Let’s figure it out.
– You know, the fact is it turns out lots of people,
all generations like that big band music.
And I get it from 23 year olds as well as 93 year olds.
It is college football season.
So, you know, that makes sense.
But we had the opportunity to get an advanced copy
of Rough Cuts and boy, you know, it was a rip snorder.
Yes, a fine book indeed.
Clearly extensive research went into the book
and considering, you know, your inspiration,
it’s in the back of the book.
Hopefully I’m not spoiling anything.
But your inspiration came from your mother-in-laws,
your mother, I think she stumbled on some no cards
of her grandfather.
– Yeah, it’s a fun origin story.
My mother-in-law was telling me one day, a few years back,
that she had been clearing out her attic in essence
and she was going through her grandfather’s files
and possessions.
And her grandfather was a minister
for Methodist Church in the relatively small community,
Maryetta, Ohio.
And he had been appointed to the Ohio Film Censorship Board.
This is back in the 1920s.
And she said these cards from his files pertaining
to the cuts that needed to be made to Hollywood films
were crazy.
I was not aware at that time that states had censorship board.
So, Ohio was one of eights.
– Yeah, he’s a handful, right?
Mostly he’s a handful in some Midwest.
– That’s right, yeah.
And I said, that to me is a story.
If people on a committee in a small town in Midwest,
in this case, in Midwestern state,
if they’re able to change the product
of Hollywood producers and directors,
I said, that’s a story.
I would love to write it.
And she said, go for it.
And so I went through those cards very carefully
looking at the types of cuts that were being made.
And I just, I was kind of salivating at the story.
It just seemed totally made for a satirical approach
to art and censorship.
– Sure, well, your previous book,
Dorman wanted a different origin story.
And we’re here to talk about rough cuts,
but I just want to say that you just walked by,
a “Dorman” and kind of started thinking
about different scenarios and almost turned it into
like an Eddie Murphy accruid trading place.
This kind of thing, except without the places
being traded by two individuals.
That one seems easier to research
than this.
And so I’m kind of wondering,
was the silent film era something
that you were interested in beforehand?
Or because of this idea you felt the need to go into it,
because there’s so many films that are referenced in the book,
the “Goldrush” “Battle Ship Attempt”
and “Domwa” and “Babit.”
The famous tracking shot in “Wings.”
And that’s just a name of few.
And then outside of just the film industry itself,
you have, I mean, you even talked about the Florida land bust.
I mean, it was just briefly referenced,
but I was listening to a history of the United States,
great courses, and they had a minute on that.
And yet you had figured out a way to pull that in
for the time period.
So, yeah, how did you decide that you wanted
to dig so deep into it?
– Well, the research began with those cards,
with my mother-in-law’s grandfather’s cards.
Between the time That I learned from my mother-in-law
and my committing to writing,
there was about a two-year gap.
That’s when I was focused on “Dormann” wanted,
the rollout of that book.
So, by the time that I committed to writing rough cuts,
my mother-in-law had donated those cards along
with other files over grandfather’s Marietta College.
She no longer had them in her possession.
So, my wife and I spent a week in Marietta
and every day of that week, I would go down to the archives
of Marietta College and go card by card.
And I just wanted to get the flavor
of what was objectionable at that time,
what he might object to.
And where I could, I would compare her grandfather’s cards,
these individual cards to the movie,
where I could find them.
Now, a lot of silent films, 90% of the films
that were produced back in time period in the teens
and the 20s, 90% are gone.
Combustible film, they were destroyed, whatever.
And oftentimes the studios would throw the films out.
They needed more storage space.
They didn’t realize that decades later,
there might be this hunger for these films.
They just thought, okay, we’ve shown it, it’s done,
move it on, give rid of it.
So that was part of the research,
was going through the cards and then comparing them
to the films that I found on YouTube.
The other part, as you mentioned,
is really immersing myself in that era.
I didn’t major in film studies.
I do know more about silent film era than anybody else.
But, I’ll tell you, it’s fun research.
I mean, going back and watching those films
and reading, I read probably 15 biographies
on the directors and the stars of that day
just to understand what that era was like.
Also, in addition, I did a lot of research,
obviously, on the film’s censorship period.
So a lot of that went into it.
And I have to say, in terms of research,
silent film era, pretty darn fun research.
So hard fun, not hard work?
– That’s right.
Good name, right.
– So we’re a comedy podcast, or at least we try to be,
try to be a light artist.
So we’ve read a lot of quote unquote comedy books
and things like that, which end up being a lot of
very depressing reads with splash of comedy here or there.
Congrats to you for actually writing a very light heart
and very funny book.
It was much needed from our end,
’cause that’s not usually what we get into, unfortunately.
Thank you, Mr. President.
– And I really loved Shepherd and Tubby’s relationship
in particular, but you come from a world of soap operas
in drama, how did you get from there to writing,
is your second kind of comedy, “Cetero Go Book”?
How’d you get to that, sage?
– Well, it was fun for me to write about,
and you referenced the director, Patrick Jay Shepherd,
and his assistant director, Tubby.
You know, it was fun for me to write about that
because it brought me back to when I was working
in studios at NBC and Burbank,
but also throughout my career,
I had very nice relationships with,
I was a video and event producer
back here in the Twin Cities,
and had really nice relationships with the videographers,
the editors, the graphic designer, the makeup people, et cetera.
And now that I’m retired,
it allowed me to kind of revisit what made that period
for me so special.
It’s the relationships that come about through this
creative teamwork, but also, I look back very fondly,
working at NBC in those studios.
There’s a scene in there that you may remember
where the director, he has completed his final film,
and he decides to go into the studios on a Sunday morning.
He just wants to walk around those studios
for what may be the last time,
and that was something I did when I was leaving NBC.
I went in on a weekend and just walked around the studios.
I knew that I was leaving this setting.
I knew that I was leaving this milieu,
and I just wanted to say goodbye in my own way.
Did a security guard also stop you and tell you,
sir, you can’t go in there?
That’s where it comes in.
It just allowed me to kind of revisit that,
and I wanted Patrick to feel that special goodbye
as well.
It would have been great if he stopped you,
and you said, I’m Glenn Miller,
and you said, the famous band director?
We’ll come on in.
Oh my gosh.
I didn’t know you were off.
Yeah, there was great.
I mean, it seemed like every page had,
you know, humor to it.
There was a lot of quippy dialogue.
I mean, I’m just thinking back to the confusion
between Carnival and Carnal.
I especially enjoyed the banter between Dodgery and Miss
Deshinbach.
Is that how you say your name?
Yeah, so they had great stuff between the two of them.
I feel like every page, it was just, there was laughs.
That’s, you know, hard to find while also getting to a point.
I think Dodgery briefly just mentioned him who is the minister.
He is a uniquely unlikable antagonist,
yet he’s funny in the way he interacts with others
and the way he sees the world and himself within the world.
How much fun did you have writing that character?
Because he is that.
He’s a character, you know?
I feel like you can’t just base it on somebody
and kind of go from there.
This has to be made from whole cloth.
I had loads of fun writing the Harold Dodgery character.
This story is, it’s a braided story where the reader will bounce back
and forth between the Hollywood scenes
and the Marietta Ohio scenes up until the time where they come together.
There is a collision at the end.
And I always enjoyed going back to Harold Dodgery, the minister,
yet I find great humor in those who take themselves too seriously.
And that was the attribute that I gave this young minister
who essentially had been on his job for six months
and he was ready to run the church.
He is the junior minister in a two minister church
and he feels that his talents are being gravely wasted
by the senior minister, minister Reverend Cox.
And initially I have his character
because this church is the oldest church in Ohio,
the governor felt that there should be religious representation
on the film censorship board and they wanted a representative
from this church.
Senior minister physically could not sit in the movie theater for hours
so he gives this task to Harold Dodgery.
And Harold feels that the senior minister is sloughing off his responsibilities.
He doesn’t know anything about film.
He doesn’t care about this.
But he quickly realizes that this can be his avenue to power.
So he wants power.
The film director Patrick Shepherd wants legacy.
He wants to be remembered.
So that’s where this collision comes at the end.
But yeah, to your question, he was a fun character.
I mean, quite honestly, well, obviously a writer, a novelist,
will read his or her book multiple times.
But I was pleased that Harold Dodgery,
even with the 15th reading or the 16th reading,
continued to amuse me.
And a follow up on that is the takeaway
that you should be entitled and poppised
and then when given the opportunity blackmail your way into a grape roll
because that’s kind of what I was like, hey, I’ve been doing it wrong.
This guy knows he’s doing.
Well, there’s a bit of redemption at the end.
He has a bit of realization in those final pages.
Yeah, I hope it is seen as somewhat of a touching scene
when after Shepherd has died, that’s not a spoiler.
It’s known at the beginning of the book
that he is very grievously ill.
But after he has died, Dodgery, the minister,
has a hope is a touching moment when
he reflects on Patrick Shepherd.
And the impact that that man has had on him.
I guess a big part of the book seems like it’s centered up, obviously.
And we look back then and say, oh, I can’t
believe they did that 100 years ago.
100 years from now, is there anything particularly in the art and cinema world
that you see as like, I can’t believe they did that.
They’ll look back at what we’re doing today as like, I can’t believe they allowed them
to do that.
Is there anything that stands out?
Because obviously we’re not really in touch with that side of things.
But I feel like you probably have an interesting perspective on that.
That’s a fun question.
A little bit difficult for me to project on that in looking at the films during my research
of the book looking at the films of 100 years ago.
I was surprised to a certain extent by what they got away with.
I mean, when you view these old films, there was nudity.
There was a lot that was implied in that era.
And you find it was a lot more innuendo than–
There was a lot of innuendo.
A lot of innuendo.
I think compared to today, compared to what we see on the streaming or HBO, et cetera,
it would probably be regarded as tame.
But there was no doubt what was being implied.
And there is the pre-code era, which technically is from 1930 to 1934.
It’s a very specific term for that period in time.
There is so much innuendo, you guys, in these movies.
It is quite striking.
There was a director came from Germany, Ernst Lubitsch.
He’s mentioned in the book, yes.
Yeah, who he is a brief cameo.
And I wanted to mention him because he was famous for the innuendo within his films.
What he got away with–
oftentimes, these scripts were looked at by the Hayes office before they went into production.
When they’re just on paper, that’s the least expensive time to make changes.
Once you start filming, once you start editing, it changes become far more expensive.
But those with the sensors were unable to catch a lot of the innuendo because so much of
it was nuance within, now that we’re in the talkie era between 1930 and ’34, so much of the
innuendo was in the way the actors delivered their lines.
And that was very specific to Ernst Lubitsch.
He got away with so much when you watch some of his films.
They’re highly entertaining.
They’re wonderful films.
But yeah, a lot of innuendo as you watch.
There seemingly–
I know that there was a code period or whatnot, but there was seemingly no rules or, I think,
as you say in the book, guiding principles for these censorship boards.
They could pretty much just start their own, like, fake leaf campaign, a lot, Pope Pius,
and start cutting the metaphorical genitalia out of these films.
So, why do you think censorship became so prevalent in the United States at the time and not
so much abroad?
Boy, that gets into characteristics of America.
I–
The Puritan Fiendies.
I mean, we still can’t– I’m in Boston area.
We still can’t have happy hour here, so yeah.
You know?
Well, that’s funny.
Our son lived for a couple of years in Salt Lake City and the Hoops one has to go through
to order a drink at the table.
And I mean, barriers are always, I think, in American society.
There are barriers that are often put up and one needs to be clever to find their way around
it.
You know, I think– I do want to say– and this is an important part of the censorship– the
film censorship period– to begin with, film was a new medium.
And a lot of people weren’t quite sure what do we have on our hands here.
But it did come out of those first state censorship boards in the 19 teens.
They did come out of the progressive era.
This was a time when America was starting to get its arms around meat inspection, food
inspection, inspecting imports to make sure that teas from abroad were made of tea leaves
and not sawdust.
So this was an era in which consumer protection was– was felt to be a good thing for the consumers.
And so films fell into that category.
I think the initial impulse was to protect the consumer from what was being created, whether
it’s being created in Hollywood or New York or Europe.
And so I think the intentions started out well.
But people very quickly discovered, wait a minute, but we’re censoring.
We are controlling what people are creating and controlling what people can see.
So keep in mind that early movie theaters were oftentimes being used– or not oftentimes–
but were being used as a babysitter, people working to income couples get their kids somewhere.
And so oftentimes they were being left to movie theaters without any sort of oversight as
what those kids were seeing.
So I think I don’t want to lose the fact that they were trying to do something that ultimately
benefited their populations, be it in Ohio or New York or Pennsylvania or what have you.
So yeah, the censorship is really a nuanced, gray subject.
So with that, when Doddry first meets with the censorship committee, he’s floored by
the amount of power he now has, which is like you said, his ultimate goal is to gain power.
And he asked why they are doing it with books or stage plays or paintings.
And I thought I stopped that.
I was like, that’s actually a good point.
Why did they just jump to film and not start going around New York museums and knocking
genitalia off statues?
Why?
You know?
Well, I think because of its newness, quite honestly.
I think they felt, all right, here’s a new medium.
We are now at a point in time where we can at least control this one.
And by the way, book censorship, the most banned titles in history are now in terms of libraries,
of public libraries or school libraries.
That’s why I throw that little line in one of the book censors, or, sorry, one of the
censors on that committee after Dodger asks that question that you just mentioned, one of
the censors said, oh, he’s a dreamer, that one.
And it was meant, there was a historical wink, wink, because it is happening so much now.
But yeah, I would guess, concisely, I would guess, it was just a new medium that they felt
they could control.
Yeah, I think there’s a new documentary coming out.
It might be on like HBO or something, but it’s about libraries and what’s happening with
libraries now and librarians specifically, you know, the unsung heroes trying to protect
the books in their own libraries and just them getting decimated by interest groups who
aren’t so into having books that people can read and learn about.
I would have asked one.
Just inform me that that documentary has come out.
I’ve got to see it.
Yeah, I want to see it too.
As someone that went to church every Sunday growing up and I think Dylan did as well, the idea
of reenacting movies, I thought that was brilliant.
Yeah, Dodger’s on to something.
Yeah, I would have given you a die hard, good fellow’s reenactment.
I mean, you know, I would have been paying much more attention in church.
Where did that idea come from?
Was that something that actually happened somewhere or was that, or maybe you also said
in a church, I think I wish they had did this?
Now that’s just where the satire, I mean, my satirical approach to this topic, hey man, I just
wanted to keep pushing it with this goofy character, Dodger.
Where would he take it?
But he realizes that simply by telling the congregation about some of the lines that
he feels should be cut, he is seeing the attendance slowly increase.
So he simply takes it to the next step, what if I bring some people up and he learns of a
young couple within the congregation who did some acting back in high school, they’re an
attractive young couple.
So they are his first stars and then once others see their fellow congregants going up
to act things out, auditions are held.
It just is pushing an idea.
As far as I can, the interesting thing, after I had finished the book about a year ago, I
read that there was a biography that came out on Amy Simple McPherson.
Amy Simple McPherson is a name that I simply toss in in a very brief scene.
But she was considered to be the leader of America’s first mega church out in Los Angeles.
And she was somebody who started to borrow the production values of the Hollywood scene
that she was living in at that time in the 1920s.
She did it through lighting and stage decoration and that type of thing to my knowledge.
She was now bringing congregants up to act out Hollywood films.
But she did look towards Hollywood and look towards Hollywood films as a means of bolstering
her own Sunday morning attendance.
But more through decoration and that type of thing.
And now that’s like everywhere with the mega churches for sure.
Well, the entertainment.
I went to my cousin’s church in Tampa, Florida when I was six or something and they had a
band.
I was like, there’s a band here.
What’s going on?
Everyone’s standing up and dancing.
And I was like, this is not the Catholic church I grew up in.
So he’s always thinking about his legacy.
It’s kind of the duality that he talks about between him and Dodger.
And what he’s leaving to the world and ultimately will it mean anything?
I think it’s something we all think about probably a little bit.
But as you were finishing writing this book, did you kind of associate with those ideas?
Because the book is tangible.
It’s not going anywhere.
It’s here.
So do you see that as part of your legacy?
Now that you’ve become a writer with these last two books?
Yeah.
I was writing this in my 60s.
I am in my 60s.
And I was writing it as I was retiring as I was making the decision to retire.
And so yeah, very much.
I was thinking, well, how will I be remembered?
How will my children or my grandchildren remember me?
So yeah, I think leaving for me, leaving behind now two books, possibly three, leaving that
behind.
I was definitely focused on that.
And I wanted, as I’m thinking about it, I wanted to give Shepard some of those same thoughts
and concerns.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think sometimes I have a daughter.
She’s too.
And I’m like, please don’t ever find anything that we’ve recorded when you’re older.
Please do not.
Maybe this interview.
We’re okay with this.
We’ll be deleted off the internet by now.
Yeah, outside of that, Keith has the red briefcase or whatever to blow everything up.
I think we just got one more for you.
And I do really appreciate your time.
But at the end of the book, Shep says, “All creativity is propaganda for something.”
So what is rough cuts propaganda for?
Yeah, he said that in a heated moment.
I gave him a line there at the end.
You know, rough cuts, what I hope that readers will take away from reading this.
I hope they enjoy the read.
I hope they find it funny and humorous.
But I also hope they find it thoughtful.
And forces them to kind of examine their thoughts on censorship and how they find art appropriate
or inappropriate.
You know, it’s an issue and I give Shepard these lines as well.
It’s one thing to not want to see a film personally.
It’s one thing to not want your child necessarily to see a film because perhaps they’re not mature
enough for the subject matter.
It’s a totally different thing for one to not want anybody to see a film or to read a book
or to look at a painting.
And so those are the arguments.
And when there is this crescendo at the end between this clash at the end between the minister
and the director, I hope that readers will look at both sides of the argument and not only
feel that the director Shepard has good points, but I hope they look also at doggries pushing
back and feel, you know what?
Maybe he has some good points around this difficult topic as well.
Yeah, I mean, I guess that was my last question or the same time I’m just thinking back
in the book and there was a lot of references to like DW Griffith who famously made birth
of a nation which was shown in the White House.
And obviously, race has been a huge part of this country for such a long time.
And do you want to just go and get rid of those things because of that or should people
be able to look at that and kind of realize maybe how far we’ve come?
You know, to that point, one of the biographies I read of somebody involved in the film community
who I found to be fascinating the director, Victor Flemming, he started out as a cameraman,
he was a technical guy, started out as a cameraman, primarily working on Douglas Fairbanks films
and then he ultimately became a director of those films.
But one of the films that he directed was Gone with the Wind.
And in the same year that he directed The Wizard of Oz, which to me is incredible that he
did those two films within the span of nine months, almost had a nervous breakdown.
But I mention it because my wife and I rewatched Gone with the Wind, I haven’t seen it in
probably 40 years.
But what I really appreciated, there was like a 10 minute introductory piece that an African
American woman introduced the film and she said you should watch it through these eyes,
understand this about this film, it’s a time piece, it is considered a classic, etc., etc.,
but she really positioned it beautifully, which I appreciated rather than the streaming
service simply going into the film or rather than them deciding these films, these portions
of the film are now objectionable and need to be removed.
So I like understanding that position before positioning, before seeing a racist film or an
objectionable film.
Yeah, I watched it earlier this year myself, I had never seen it before and felt like I
needed to watch it.
And I had the same experience.
And I was so glad because there was also a bunch of scuttled about going around about it
when I started researching on the internet about them potentially cutting out scenes or
stuff like that.
And I’m so glad they didn’t and instead went the approach that you’re talking about because
it was made then you should see it as the director wanted you to see it and having that
prelude ahead of time with someone giving you a little bit of perspective was not only knowledgeable
but also I think just the best way to kind of approach that kind of thing.
But I’m sure there will be people that disagree with us and that’s fine.
That’s the whole point of this country is you can disagree with anyone.
And those who disagree with what you just say would probably want a sensor, the film,
if not eradicated, get rid of it.
Glenn R. Miller, thank you so much for stopping by the Buddy Book Club.
The book is Rough Cuts and comes out on September 29th.
Well, we really appreciate your time and hopefully we’ll catch you for the next book.
I so enjoyed this conversation.
Thank you guys.
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So we just chatted with Glenn, great combo.
I like the controversial stuff.
You know I’m interested in that stuff.
People get really upset or lots of stuff and what else did you feel like you wanted to chat
about outside of what we talked about with Glenn?
I didn’t ask him about cribbage.
I wanted to ask him about cribbage.
Dang it.
I forgot.
Yeah, a couple of games where I was just going to compliment him at the end.
I forgot too.
But the first of all, it’s probably the book that I’ve looked up the most words for.
I wrote it down.
First of all, I didn’t know what a Nickelodeon was.
I was like, the TV station was back then.
That’s first, firstly.
And then, let’s see if you know these words.
Soupcon.
Soupcon.
S-O-U-P-C-O-N.
Yeah, it’s when you tell someone you’re giving them soup, but it’s just like check the
stock.
Yeah, it’s a fake.
It’s not.
It’s a fugacy?
Yeah, it’s a different.
Difference?
What is the soup con?
You didn’t tell me.
Oh, I didn’t look up the definition.
I was looking up on it.
You just wrote down words.
You didn’t tell me.
Oh, then these are not.
These are not.
These are not.
So it’s French.
It has like an accent.
Oh, you didn’t tell me that.
A very small, so cool.
A very small quantity, trace or hint of something.
So that’s that one.
I’ll give you the next one.
Difference.
It’s when you’re not feeling so hot about something.
Yeah, lack of self-confidence.
Shine us.
Well done.
I’m different in all the time.
That’s the one.
Did you make that up?
Yeah, I just made that up.
Just when I think, you’ve probably heard a bunch.
Mercurial?
Mercurial.
Yeah.
I have– see, this is– and I do this with my nephew and niece
because they’re seven and nine.
So they always ask, what does this word mean?
And I’m like, I can’t define it.
I can use it in a sentence.
But whenever you’re trying to define it,
you end up just sitting there going like, ah, it’s–
you know, mercurial.
And you just say the same thing.
Just means, what it means.
Unproductive change in mood or clever and quick-witted.
So it’s too very–
Yeah, this–
Yeah, it feels like you could be being
a dick to someone by saying they’re mercurial,
but also being nice to them.
All right, last one is–
I’m going to put you to the name, in SoCans.
I-N-S-O-U-C-I-A-N-C-S-E.
In-N-S-N-C-E, sorry.
What?
I really read.
I don’t even know what words you’re saying.
Yeah, that’s right.
It comes out right away.
I look for it.
It’s a French word.
So it looks like it means carefulness in French.
It’s too call.
In-S-O-C-I-A-N-S-E.
Yeah, all right.
All right.
There you go.
Those are the half of them are French words.
Yeah, what’s that?
Yeah, what’s that?
You get no four words.
This book is 300 pages.
If you only didn’t know four words, that’s pretty good.
That was within the first 30 pages,
and I stopped doing it because I was like, oh my god,
there’s too many.
I didn’t know when he was–
there was the confusion over carnal and carnival.
Doddry makes a joke, and he says, oh, like an organ grinder.
And I was like, what the heck is an organ?
That sounds like something from a butcher factory.
But it’s those trolleys from all timey carnivals.
It was basically an organ that, I think, as it moved
or you cranked it, that due to steam would make sounds.
I’m sure you’ve seen it in an old timey video
or something like that, but it’s like a horse-drawn organ.
An organ that you crank, what’s that?
This is what I said.
I did it while my daughter had listened to this in 20 years.
No, they’re coming in.
This is a sub-shamble high brow than that I have.
I don’t have anything.
That’s a problem.
How did you–
I feel like we’ve done maybe at a 10 or so interviews.
I don’t even remember anymore.
But I really read this book and thoroughly enjoyed it
from beginner to end.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Like I said before, it actually is a lighthearted comedy,
which we don’t actually get many of.
Yeah.
I wasn’t joking when I said every single page had some comedy.
So I really liked the kind of witty banter back and forth
that’s happening.
Even if some– usually it was one side, especially with Doddry,
it was one side of the conversation,
didn’t understand that there was a joke going on.
And I really enjoyed that.
I was talking to somebody–
I can’t remember who it was, but I was talking to somebody
recently.
I think it was like my cousin’s husband.
And people were coming up to us and saying stuff.
And he would always have, based on what they said,
this kind of like, quippy joke in there, where I was just like,
hi, whether’s good.
You know?
I was like, how do I do that?
How do I become that person?
So–
Well, the key is–
I went golfing up in the richer part of San Diego.
What’s your show?
Yeah, and it was a super nice course.
The guy comes out– you know, like the starter.
I’m always a little nervous around them because they’re–
I have a push-light.
The couple would remind you.
I’m classin’ it up.
Did you buy it from the clubhouse?
No, absolutely.
Obviously not.
So that’s strike three.
But he comes up and he just says like seven jokes
to write to my face, making fun of me,
before I can even get a word out.
He’s like, look at this piece of shit from Boston,
and I’m like, oh, and then he’s like, yeah,
he probably come down here from the mesa where you’re from.
You come back and find this area.
I was like, and he just kept on going.
He just rattled him off.
He wouldn’t let you talk and get a quit back in.
I was like, just defeated.
I was like, well, I’m done.
I don’t know if it’s saying him or so.
That’s the guy at the blue–
The blue teas are for the low-handy capers.
Why it is for everyone?
And you, sir, you can play from the reds.
That’s on four-w and tea.
That’s exactly what he was saying.
What’s going on here?
Yeah, those guys can either be really good or are really bad.
Really bad.
No, you’re the nice dude.
Usually, if you don’t drive 90 degrees,
I’m going to come to the course and kill you.
So I go, OK.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We had some guy pull up to us.
We were playing with friends.
It was a casual round, and there was no one really there.
But he was like, you’re, he pulled up to us
and I was going to be mad at us.
He goes, you’re friends in front of you are an hour behind.
And I was like, that’s unmake-up-able.
Like, what do you want me to do?
He was like, make him play faster.
I was like, I can’t possibly do that.
So I’m sorry, sir.
But here we are.
What else do you got?
No, I think, I like I said, I think all the relationships
had like a kind of a funny–
you were kind of waiting for the next joke, which I really
liked.
I mentioned I liked the Tubby and–
I liked the name Tubby Versal.
That’s a hilarious–
That’s a great name.
Tubby and Shepherd relationship was good.
Shepard and the financier relationship was funny.
Like all the relationships were good.
And then he did mention it too, but don’t you
like, even though you kind of didn’t like him,
you kind of did like him.
And then so when the story ends and he’s like,
has like a positive note of like, actually,
you became a productive person in the business.
You’re like, oh, so there was no like actual bad guys
in the book, you know what I mean?
It was like, he was an antagonist, but he kind of did
humble himself, which you didn’t think would see happen.
I don’t know if he humbled himself.
I think he–
He was good at his job.
It was a good hire.
And like he actually was actually helping
do the opposite of what he first intended.
He was actually helping–
Yeah, but the only reason why he did the first–
the thing he first intended to was because it gave him power.
And now he was job was the power.
So he now had the power on the other end
and had 10 people working below him or whatever the case is.
So–
Yeah.
He didn’t have–
But he still had a–
Right, just crusade to go on.
Yeah, but he still had to listen to–
like they said he was like, ah, he’s going to be tough to like
reign this guy in and have someone–
but he like immediately was like, oh, I’m working for you guys,
not the other way around, type of thing, which you don’t
think that kind of telling a guy would be able to do.
Yeah, well, it’s nice when you’re making tons of money.
He lived in a hotel though.
I feel like that was the thing that people used to do.
Remember when we read the Matthew McConaughey documentary
and he– or whatever–
Greenlight.
And he lived in a hotel for like two years?
Just seems weird to me.
I feel like it’d be good if you’re just
have your bed made every day and cleaned up after you all the time.
It’s not bad.
I don’t think I like that, really.
I’m like George Costanza.
I don’t want to be tucked in.
I don’t want the bed tucked in, you know?
No, no tucking.
No tucking.
And then she probably threw away my jokes,
like she did to Jerry when they went to LA.
Yeah.
I forgot to ask him about Doddry’s breakfast, which
was two cups of black coffee, a hardball day,
an 11 drop.
And I’m assuming a lemon drop is not like the boozy drink
that co-eds get when they go to bars.
And instead was like a hard candy.
Or how do you feel about that breakfast?
Two cups of black coffee, hardball day, lemon drop.
That would be like, consider a super healthy breakfast,
right back then.
I mean, it is healthy.
It is healthy now.
It is healthy.
Yeah, it’s healthy.
I mean, it’s probably not healthy now.
I was going to say back then, the three pieces of toast,
forex, bacon, you know, that was just to start your day.
And then like, which me, I’m like, I’m doing like a Bolognese
no milk and just straight, you know, tea, black.
That’s the only way I can–
Dry Weedies?
Oh, yeah, kid.
I’m– you know my– I’m wearing a tune.
I do black tea, benafiber, green juice mix,
and we eat dry Weedies.
Do you eat it with a spoon?
No.
You just hands.
Interesting.
Hmm.
I had oatmeal for breakfast.
Every time– you know what?
Every time I have oatmeal, you’ll like this.
Every time I have oatmeal, and I eat oatmeal a lot,
and my daughter eats oatmeal all the time.
I think about you because we had a conversation
probably 15 years ago that was–
you said that oats, you can eat them raw.
Like, they’re– you can just eat them.
They’re fine.
You don’t need to like cook them.
And I thought that was blasphemous.
And I was so hard-lined, you know, as I am stubborn and whatnot.
I was like, that you’re an idiot.
You’re stupid, too.
That’s just not the case.
And then we googled it, and you were right.
You can just– you know, I mean, I make energy bites that just
have raw– I mean, routs in them.
And so now every time I think about that,
and it reminds me to be humble, you know?
I thought my thing was that I like to pour hot water into the oats
versus, do you put the water in and then microwave it?
Or do you–
I put the milk in, and I was savage–
OK, I had a milk in and then microwave it with the milk.
Yeah, I’ll do my great– every time I do water if I’m making steel
kind of oats on the stove top, then you’ve got to mix in some–
I think my argument more was that I like to heat the water or milk
and pour it over it like cereal and then it–
because you can control the amount of water.
And it’s not just like–
when you get served oatmeal at a restaurant,
it’s just kind of like dead in the water.
It’s just mush.
It’s kind of like– I don’t like cereal that’s
been sitting in milk too long.
I like to–
No, of course not.
-do less milk.
So I like– that’s how oatmeal.
I like it like hot water.
That’s just hit it.
And it’s not like finally ground oats.
It’s like– OK, yeah, that makes sense.
I think our friend, Nevin’s broke the cereal mystery.
She had two bowls, one of milk and one of cereal,
and would dip the cereal into the milk and then eat it
so she could control the saturation.
I mean, I don’t like that at all.
That’s genius.
I was like, that is–
I mean, you got to clean two bowls with that–
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
-well worth it.
And you kind of look like a cat a little bit
with like the bowl of milk and your–
So it’s for milk table two, bro.
Yeah.
Got to get our Austin Powers in.
Let me think.
I was wondering how these censorship panels were formed.
He’s– you know, in the book, he’s
talking about the governor coming in and giving you this power.
And it had to be one man of the cloth was involved.
But I’m just wondering in all of these bureaucracies,
like how they decided who these people were,
because it seemed pretty willing–
I’m sure.
-really nilly.
Yeah.
I mean, that’s what politics have always been.
It’s like, oh, I know someone.
So they’re going to give me this role that I’m not qualified for.
And then give me a ton of power that I shouldn’t ever end
or I didn’t get voted in for.
But that’s how it works.
I think that’s my problem with all this stuff in general.
And I know Glenn said it comes from a good place,
and it does.
But I’m just a small government guy.
So it’s more of–
let us figure it out by ourselves if we want that or not.
I don’t need it.
And I know this is a different time we’re talking about.
It’s also pro-ohibition error, which we really didn’t
discuss at all the pro-ohibition, which is really interesting.
And just the way that everyone’s drinking the whole time
is great considering it’s the pro-ohibition error,
if you have money.
Which I was going to bring up was that I’m surprised
that churches didn’t boom during this time,
because you could drink wine at church.
So you could be like, this is a special–
-substant wine.
-could come on.
What’s this being?
Let’s be honest here.
I need all of–
Jesus is blood right now.
I need all of it.
You just go at church and everyone’s just holding the cops
like–
–let a Christ do your–
Yeah, I actually wonder in general–
and there’s no way to know this– but how much wine
they went through during the giving of communion–
-during pro-ohibition compared to now?
Not once.
Never.
Me neither.
Disgusting.
I was always looked at that.
And I’m not a germ person at all.
I’m not–
But it’s still about–
I don’t wine in two.
I’m going to be the 35th person drinking of this thing.
I was like, now I’m good.
And I was like 12 when I was saying I was like,
that’s the dumbest thing ever.
And I’m not like the least germ of all person of all time, too,
which is so–
Yeah, but you would–
you would if someone that you knew had a drink,
it was like, oh, try this.
And they had already drank from it.
Oh, you would–
You would try it, no problem.
I had people get a drink out of it.
If someone had a drink out of it, whatever.
But this is–
Oh, really about it.
I didn’t like.
There’s something about it.
Because I feel like there’s a number for me.
And the number is probably three.
OK.
They get any more than three, and I’m out.
I feel like after COVID, I’m sure they change it.
Now they like straws for everyone.
Dixie cup, they just report it into dipsy cup.
Yeah, it’s a shot of Jesus.
Little shot of Jesus, but all right.
Yeah, I don’t think I have anything else.
But yeah, I would suggest people go out and get their hands on it.
It might be one of those things that comes on.
We didn’t ask them or anything.
But it could be something that comes out
on Audible in the future, or you could probably get it from Libby as well.
But you know what?
These are Glent’s a guy who’s retired.
He’s trying to write a couple books, make a little money
to supplement his retirement.
Go out there and buy the book.
It’s like $22.95.
Go out there and buy the book.
Enjoy it.
Stick it on your shelf.
And make notes in the margins like I did,
because there was lots of good stuff there.
I wish I had the same him being like I was super into researching the 20s and 30s.
I was like, I wish I liked anything that much.
Like that’s great.
Like that’s a dense topic and like a hard one to cover and he’s like all over.
I was like, I love that.
Yeah, one of the books, one of the movies he referenced, Battleship Potemkin is something
like my grandfather who loves movies like has seen every single movie.
He told me about it.
It’s been on my list and then I saw it on HBO and I was like, oh, this is in there.
It’s silent film from the 20s.
It’s been on my list for like sitting in my HBO list or whatever the thing is for six years
and I haven’t watched it.
So the idea that Glen went out and not only watched all of these, or at least all the silent
film movies that he could get his hands on, but then also did all the research.
I mean, you see it comes through the picture.
It comes through the picture.
Yeah.
And the thing is, I was like, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like, I’ve worked with someone for
10 years.
I don’t remember their names.
I can’t even remember the way.
I mean, like, I don’t know their last name or it’s like crazy that he could pull that from
his memory.
Yeah, if you didn’t think he was a bright guy just from being able to write this book, then
chatting with him for 15 minutes.
Yeah, that was a little nervous.
I was like, this guy was so much.
Oh, look at you.
You’re nervous.
Wow.
That was in the call you an idiot like this golf starter.
He was going to be like, oh, look at this guy.
Patriot set.
Great.
Great.
I also don’t like looking people in the eyes.
So you’re like, we should do a camera.
I’m like, yeah, totally.
I don’t do that.
We’re doing a camera.
I’m like, you know, one looks at you can’t look at people in the eyes of the camera because
you have to stare at the camera.
No, but I feel like you’re trained to do that.
And I can’t think as well when I have to look at someone like that beautiful as you do,
you know?
So.
Yeah.
Glenn is a looker, lucky guy.
All right.
Well, that was rough cuts by Glenn Armeller.
Like I said, comes out September 29th, 26th, 312 pages, easy read and 2299, 2295.
I nailed that.
Got that one right.
So, yeah.
And Dorman wanted his, his previous book.
Check that out.
All right.
What do we got coming up next?
Along Give Us Spider by, our, our, by James Patterson and Alex Cross Thriller.
That would be next.
Those rough cuts and book at you for a long game of Spire.
All right.
All right.
Bye now.